Tim Hale Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Never wore maroon? I might wish to suggest that they were painted dark red in the 50's however by they time that anyone bothered to photograph them (in colour), they had mellowed to a indescribable brown patina. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzgresleyfan Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Thanks for all the responses to my questions folks, and also to the OP for starting us off in the first place! I think I know what my next project will be, will make a nice change from all those Kirk Gresleys... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Your suspicions are correct! They never wore maroon,BTW,-what period are you modelling? May I suggest that you visit the Rails of Sheffield website where you will find a rather poor colour photo of 10000 leaving Bournemouth Central on an up train dated in the early 50's- the first vehicle is a maroon Bogie-B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 IMHO that photo pre-dates the introduction of the maroon livery and the van would be in the coat of crimson it was given when built and still in the early stages of getting filthy. Regards Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I'd go along with that, and it also tallies with King, Gould and anyone else who has written about Southern coach liveries. I can't see any reason for any being maroon (except in the case of some Bulleid coaches transferred to other regions). Under the muck, Van Bs were the green or crimson they were delivered in, post-1956 green or rail blue, but not maroon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Gosh, Funny how no one bothered to disagree when I originally posted in November, however others are entitled to their opinions no matter when incorrect or not. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Gosh, Funny how no one bothered to disagree when I originally posted in November, however others are entitled to their opinions no matter when incorrect or not. Tim Nobody can read everything posted on here. The quoted evidence for crimson is fact Tim, not opinion. Where's your documented evidence for maroon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Nobody can read everything posted on here. The quoted evidence for crimson is fact Tim, not opinion. Where's your documented evidence for maroon? I prefer the visual evidence but you are entitled to your opinion unfortunately the same courtesy seems to be absent. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Of course you are entitled to your opinion Tim, just that it flies in the face of documented evidence. Still, it's your model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Rod, Many thanks for allowing me to have an opinion. The only evidence that I trust is visual whilst I regard the written word with a fair degree of scepticism, no matter how well regarded the provenance. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Having been embarrased to find I've taken over 18 months on one of these kits and still haven't finished, I take a little comfort from seeing how long others have taken with them. The original query related to lettering so this seems a good opportunity to ask if anyone knows a source of suitable 4mm white lettering for thosemodelling them in blue livery. I haven't managed to find anything so far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Modelmaster do them in both yellow (4416) and cream (4416C). With a bit of weathering, I doubt you'll be able to tell the difference between white and cream. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The Rails shot of 10000 states (of the loco) 'This livery was carried February 1954 to August 1956' so assuming that's correct, the pic is obviously taken in Aug '56 at the latest. AFAIK it was late '56 when maroon was introduced, I dont know what month but even if it was August, the B doiesnt look to be ex-works. It seems unlikely to me that it's maroon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Modelmaster do them in both yellow (4416) and cream (4416C). With a bit of weathering, I doubt you'll be able to tell the difference between white and cream. Nick I have yellow ones on the Ratio sheet and if push comes to shove.... (the van will need to be heavily weathered anyway ) I was just hoping someone did them - given that these vans ran in blue for 2 decades (1965-86) it's odd no one does white transfers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The only suitable ones I can think of Rave are the old PC (now HMRS) coaching stock sheets - they do have parcels van items on them but offhand I wouldnt like to say if the B is specifically catered for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted January 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2012 Gosh, Funny how no one bothered to disagree when I originally posted in November, however others are entitled to their opinions no matter when incorrect or not. Tim Surely the time taken to reply to a post doesn't mean the post is correct or not I prefer the visual evidence but you are entitled to your opinion unfortunately the same courtesy seems to be absent. Tim Rod, Many thanks for allowing me to have an opinion. The only evidence that I trust is visual whilst I regard the written word with a fair degree of scepticism, no matter how well regarded the provenance. Tim The Rails shot of 10000 states (of the loco) 'This livery was carried February 1954 to August 1956' so assuming that's correct, the pic is obviously taken in Aug '56 at the latest. AFAIK it was late '56 when maroon was introduced, I dont know what month but even if it was August, the B doiesnt look to be ex-works. It seems unlikely to me that it's maroon. I too have reffered to both Messers Gould and King, whose works I certainly trust, state the colours worn underneath the enivitable layers of dirt for the Bogie B vans as being either Olive Green, Malachite Green (a very limited number), BR Crimson and BR(s) Green and lastly Blue. As stated above BR Maroon was introduced in 1956 for corridor stock (but BR(s) Green was of course used on the Southern Region) whilst the lighter BR Crimson was introduced in in 1950 generally for non corridor stock (although there were some exceptions to this such as some Pull Push sets that had corridor connections within the set). The date of the picture referred to is clearly pre 1956 due both the livery of 10000 and also its known and documented allocations and workings on the Southern Region. Even dirty my considered opinion (the van in image referred too not my opinion!) taking the factual dates, references and the image into acocunt is that it is in crimson not maroon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Maybe my forgettery isn't what it was but I have a vague recollection of seeing a photo of a B in dark red on another thread ages ago, querying whether it was the right shed of red and getting a snotty answer. To paraphrase Henry Ford: the customer may have any colour he wants provided it is maroon! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hale Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The date of the picture referred to is clearly pre 1956 due both the livery of 10000 and also its known and documented allocations and workings on the Southern Region. Even dirty my considered opinion (the van in image referred too not my opinion!) taking the factual dates, references and the image into acocunt is that it is in crimson not maroon. Thanks Graham, But are you not merely repeating previous comments without adding anything new? As previously stated, I regard the written word with a fair degree of scepticism, no matter how well regarded the provenance. I will not participate further as there is nothing further to consider. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted January 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2012 As previously stated, I regard the written word with a fair degree of scepticism, no matter how well regarded the provenance. To show how daft that statement is - here's a photo of a typical parcels train in 1956, it must be right, it's a photo. Taken at Mallaig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I will not participate further as there is nothing further to consider. Tim, Several people have found the denial within this topic quite exasperating. It's entirely up to you what you take away from it but sound information has been proffered and it is somewhat churlish to throw it back at people. On that basis I'm going to lock the topic but it will remain in public as it's a sound body of evidence for other readers to have as a reference point as to what colours or not are evidential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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