Paul_C Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 I wasn't sure where to post this so I hope I've located it correctly. Thoughts please as to what is the best class 73 in 00 scale. These were used apparently on the china clay services to Sittingbourne back in the mid-sixties so adding one to my layout would be a very good idea. Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirey33 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 Dapol version is the newest and best. Various liveries available but look for newest as early ones had pick-up issues. Hornby do a re-vamp of the old Lima one, which was/is a very good moulding for it's time; good option if you're on a budget. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted December 13, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2022 Dapol version but be prepared to do a partial or full repaint to get it looking right as Dapol often get it wrong. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAILRAGE Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 The Lima Bodies were very good for their time and will even stand up to the Dapol model with a fair bit of detailing work Hornby's improved Chassis is a great although the wheel size is a little small at 12mm which causes it to sit a little low. Ideally 13.5mm should be used as it improves the height . I did this on one of my Hornby Chassis using spare Hornby 4-VEP wheels from the non powered MK6 Bogie. Motor bogie casing needs a little trimming but looks way better. A project I've just started is a Non Powered 73 using a Lima E6012 body, spare Lima 73 Chassis, pair of Hornby 4-VEP non powered MK6 Motor Bogies *these need modifying with the addition of Shaw plan steps, Sandboxes and pipes and 3rd rail pickup shoes) fitted with a spare set of Heljan 13.5mm Diameter Wheels from a Class 17. Body will be fitted with Dapol CL73 High Level Air Pipes, SE flush Glazing , MJT Wiper Blades and maybe SR Horns. The Chassis will have the moulded underframe box cut off (the detail itself is a separate moulding) and the parts cut out and built up. Ill try and get some pics for you. Cheers Trailrage 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) As the other contributors have said, Dapol has the best mechanism, with a few reservations, and they have lighting, which the old Lima/Hornby RailRoad models don't have, but again there are cautions as the first batch of Dapol models had a faulty PCB design that left the cab lights on permanently. Beware the livery errors. The first two batches had a BR blue that was most certainly NOT BR blue, with the early EE Co blue being even more wrong, if that's possible. Some of the liveries were really nicely done (see the photo of the Southern livery below). I have been re-chassis-ing (is that a word?) all my old Lima 73s with Hornby chassis with 5-pole motor bogies. The body mouldings of the Lima/Hornby model are very good, but the simplified detail on the chassis lets them down a bit. Dapol E6007 in front (repainted to get rid of the awful blue and also the lemon yellow warning panels), with Lima E6012 on a Hornby chassis behind. Edited December 21, 2022 by SRman 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAILRAGE Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) Few Shots of my Lima 73 Body/Chassis using parts from Hornby (4-VEP Bogies), Heljan (Wheels), Dapol (High level pipework), SE Finecast (Glazing), MJT etched Brass wipers and some Turned Brass Horns I found in my spares tub. Still lots to do as I've only just started. Dapol 73714 and Lima Hybrid E6012 Close up of Cabs showing improved Height Temporary mounted on the bogies Left Hand Bogies has a false floor Drilled out so the Bogie will clip in Original Lima Trailing bogie. What detail is there is essentially Correct and shows how good the mouldings could be, They do seem a little undernourished but this could just be down to the undersize Wheels used Dapol Bogie which is a beautiful moulding Hornby MK6 Motor Bogie moulding from their 4-VEP attached to the false floor. Details are nice and crisp but needs additional work doing to it to make it look more like the 73 variant. Bogie Steps Fine Pipework 3rd Rail Pickup Shoes and and Sand Boxes . As this is going to be a Non Powered Model I am going to find a way of fitting Kaydee Couplings to the Bogies so it can run with any of my 4-VEP EMU'S. Cheers Trailrage Edited December 22, 2022 by TRAILRAGE 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAILRAGE Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Some extremley helpfulldetail shots here courtesy of Brian Daniels incredible Flickr collection. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 hours ago, TRAILRAGE said: Few Shots of my Lima 73 Body/Chassis using parts from Hornby (4-VEP Bogies), Heljan (Wheels), Dapol (High level pipework), SE Finecast (Glazing), MJT etched Brass wipers and some Turned Brass Horns I found in my spares tub. Still lots to do as I've only just started. Dapol 73714 and Lima Hybrid E6012 Close up of Cabs showing improved Height Temporary mounted on the bogies Left Hand Bogies has a false floor Drilled out so the Bogie will clip in Original Lima Trailing bogie. What detail is there is essentially Correct and shows how good the mouldings could be, They do seem a little undernourished but this could just be down to the undersize Wheels used Dapol Bogie which is a beautiful moulding Hornby MK6 Motor Bogie moulding from their 4-VEPattached to the false floor. Details are nice and crisp but needs additional work doing to it to make it look more like the 73 variant. Bogie Steps Fine Pipework 3rd Rail Pickup Shoes and and Boxes . As this is going to be a Non Powered Model I am going to find a way of fitting Kaydee Couplings to the Bogies so it can run with any of my 4-VEP EMU'S. Cheers Trailrage The Dapol bogies are really nice, although prone to losing bits at times. My E6007 came from The Hobby Shop, Faversham as a Limited Edition, with one wrong brake block on one bogie, which caused all sorts of running problems until I worked out what was happening. Dapol's warranty supplier, DCC Supplies sent me an entire replacement bogie frame rather than just the correct brake block assembly. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 On 21/12/2022 at 21:47, TRAILRAGE said: Some extremley helpfulldetail shots here courtesy of Brian Daniels incredible Flickr collection. Although some of the pipes have been removed from the buffer beam compared to earlier times 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAILRAGE Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 13 hours ago, DY444 said: Although some of the pipes have been removed from the buffer beam compared to earlier times your absolutely correct. I think most if not all the Class 73 still running have had their Vacuum Brake pipework on the Bufferbeam removed. I think they may have had the Vacuum Exhauster removed as well leaving an empty space under the Body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 9 hours ago, TRAILRAGE said: your absolutely correct. I think most if not all the Class 73 still running have had their Vacuum Brake pipework on the Bufferbeam removed. I think they may have had the Vacuum Exhauster removed as well leaving an empty space under the Body. In addition to the vacuum pipe, they also had a second air res pipe, two blue star engine air pipes and two blue star cable receptacles. All those have been removed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 Does anyone make a 73/9? They are almost a whole new class (did TOPS run out of 7- numbers?). Diesel-electric rather than electro-diesel, different MU equipment, far bigger prime mover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 1 hour ago, rogerzilla said: did TOPS run out of 7- numbers? There are still a lot of unused 7x numbers, plus precedent when the 74s were created out of the 71s. But, logic seems to have deserted the allocation of TOPs class numbers a long time ago, with passenger unit class numbers dotted all over the place. Even the one-time logic of the 3xx, 4xx and 5xx groups has gone. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 Thanks - I wondered why they hadn't allocated a whole new class, like 69 is being used for the re-engineered 56. The 73/9 is re-engineered to at least the same extent (and far more than, say 30 to 31 or 48 to 47!). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, rogerzilla said: Diesel-electric rather than electro-diesel, different MU equipment, far bigger prime mover. Depends on which of the two batches of 73/9 as well; which really only have the donor class in common. The GBRf ones are operated as Diesel-electric in the main part but are still very much electro-diesels (even if their shoe gear has been removed) but the NR ones have lost that capability (fairly certain of that) and have two prime movers... I think both batches have AAR MW capability, and the GBRf ones have retained the SR EMU system as well (but not the high level brake pipes). Edited December 26, 2022 by frobisher 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 Is it, perhaps, worth mentioning that the first six 73s (or JAs as they were) could operate as (powered) converter vehicles between air-braked and vacuum-braked stock, much in the way that the first two MLVs could. I think that the reasoning was that newspaper trains (many of which conveyed limited - eg a BSK - passenger accommodation) could be formed 2-HAP (or 4-CEP) + JA + vans. I am not at all sure that it ever happened in practice but I have seen a train in motion formed 4-CEP + MLV + a string of fitted 16 ton MLVs (with old-style head code 16 on the CEP if anyone wishes to replicate it). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 45 minutes ago, bécasse said: Is it, perhaps, worth mentioning that the first six 73s (or JAs as they were) could operate as (powered) converter vehicles between air-braked and vacuum-braked stock, much in the way that the first two MLVs could. I think that the reasoning was that newspaper trains (many of which conveyed limited - eg a BSK - passenger accommodation) could be formed 2-HAP (or 4-CEP) + JA + vans. I am not at all sure that it ever happened in practice but I have seen a train in motion formed 4-CEP + MLV + a string of fitted 16 ton MLVs (with old-style head code 16 on the CEP if anyone wishes to replicate it). There are published photographs of test trains related to the Bournemouth electrification with an ED coupled in between an electric unit (could have been a 4-CIG or a 4-TC) and a trailing load of Bulleid coaching stock. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) On 27/12/2022 at 21:21, bécasse said: Is it, perhaps, worth mentioning that the first six 73s (or JAs as they were) could operate as (powered) converter vehicles between air-braked and vacuum-braked stock, much in the way that the first two MLVs could. I think that the reasoning was that newspaper trains (many of which conveyed limited - eg a BSK - passenger accommodation) could be formed 2-HAP (or 4-CEP) + JA + vans. I am not at all sure that it ever happened in practice but I have seen a train in motion formed 4-CEP + MLV + a string of fitted 16 ton MLVs (with old-style head code 16 on the CEP if anyone wishes to replicate it). Actually most BR DB locomotives could do this because internally they worked as translators when hauling VB stock. On most DB locomotives the driver's brake valve controlled the BP pressure and equipment on the locomotive created a vacuum in proportion to that pressure. That equipment doesn't care how the BP pressure was changed, providing the exhauster is running it just does its thing. So if the BP pressure is varied by an AB locomotive coupled in front it will still work and you can operate a VB train with an AB locomotive. It's not ideal as the exhauster needs to run which might require the engine to be running which might require it to be manned, or the batteries might drain, plus the lead driver has no vacuum gauge so doesn't know exactly what the train brakes are doing but preserved lines do it occasionally to allow a visiting AB locomotive to work with their VB stock. I am not aware of any concrete evidence this method of working occurred on the main line (apart from the SR tests in the early 60s) but there are (potentially apocryphal) stories that it did happen once or twice on the diversions between New St and Nuneaton when 56s were being used to haul the diversions and an electrically hauled VB train turned up unexpectedly. Edited December 29, 2022 by DY444 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 On 29/12/2022 at 15:36, DY444 said: Actually most BR DB locomotives could do this because internally they worked as translators when hauling VB stock. On most DB locomotives the driver's brake valve controlled the BP pressure and equipment on the locomotive created a vacuum in proportion to that pressure. That equipment doesn't care how the BP pressure was changed, providing the exhauster is running it just does its thing. So if the BP pressure is varied by an AB locomotive coupled in front it will still work and you can operate a VB train with an AB locomotive. It's not ideal as the exhauster needs to run which might require the engine to be running which might require it to be manned, or the batteries might drain, plus the lead driver has no vacuum gauge so doesn't know exactly what the train brakes are doing but preserved lines do it occasionally to allow a visiting AB locomotive to work with their VB stock. I am not aware of any concrete evidence this method of working occurred on the main line (apart from the SR tests in the early 60s) but there are (potentially apocryphal) stories that it did happen once or twice on the diversions between New St and Nuneaton when 56s were being used to haul the diversions and an electrically hauled VB train turned up unexpectedly. From what I understand, all sorts of things happened with the Sunday drags. Many years ago my mate witnessed a VO class 40 drag a pair of EMUs with the OLE switched off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted January 4, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2023 Can't use 734xx or 738xx for any Class 73 sub classes as these are taken up by driving cars of 377 stock. Other 73xxx numbers are similarly occupied. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNZIR SLR Marksman Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Interested in this thread re the Class 73 ED's, as I have a Hornby R2517 #E6003 in BR green (plus the Lima 205169 "Broadlands" in BR teal blue). I bought the Hornby one to run with my Bachmann 4-CEP & MLV with up to four V-B stock (Bulleid/Mk1's) as I've seen pix of this lashup - may have been the test trains mentioned above. They run quite well together, but the Hornby ED is 'gutless' - only hauls two coaches on my layout, which has pinches of 1 in 50 grades, including the helix, so it's not doing its share of the 'work'! I looked at adding internal weight around the power bogie but there's no room, so now considering replacing the motor bogie with a 5-pole one - Dapol, Hornby or Bachmann, plus getting some detail parts such as pickup shoes & piping, etc to upgrade its appearance. Comments/suggestions most welcome before I proceed. (Have now bought Bachmann's 4-BEP unit to run with the above stock.) Chris, New Zealand Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 3 hours ago, RNZIR SLR Marksman said: Interested in this thread re the Class 73 ED's, as I have a Hornby R2517 #E6003 in BR green (plus the Lima 205169 "Broadlands" in BR teal blue). I bought the Hornby one to run with my Bachmann 4-CEP & MLV with up to four V-B stock (Bulleid/Mk1's) as I've seen pix of this lashup - may have been the test trains mentioned above. They run quite well together, but the Hornby ED is 'gutless' - only hauls two coaches on my layout, which has pinches of 1 in 50 grades, including the helix, so it's not doing its share of the 'work'! I looked at adding internal weight around the power bogie but there's no room, so now considering replacing the motor bogie with a 5-pole one - Dapol, Hornby or Bachmann, plus getting some detail parts such as pickup shoes & piping, etc to upgrade its appearance. Comments/suggestions most welcome before I proceed. (Have now bought Bachmann's 4-BEP unit to run with the above stock.) Chris, New Zealand The actual Hornby motor bogie should be powerful enough to haul more, so I would guess it just hasn't got sufficient traction. More weight would be the first thing to do - there is room in there if you are prepared to shift things around a bit: that decoder socket and small PCB can easily be unscrewed and fastened somewhere else for a start. Getting more ambitious, if you can purchase a second Hornby motor bogie and fit that to the non-powered end, that should give you all the power you need, (still with added weight if possible). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNZIR SLR Marksman Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 Many thanks SRMan. Had also looked at fitting traction tyres, as I had some spare Roco ones, but the Hornby motor bogie lacks the 'lip/groove' to hold them in place. I think the way to go would be to get a second Hornby motor bogie and add weight in the centre of the body. Any idea where I can purchase detail packs that include the pickup shoes, etc? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmb5dnp1 Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 23 minutes ago, RNZIR SLR Marksman said: Many thanks SRMan. Had also looked at fitting traction tyres, as I had some spare Roco ones, but the Hornby motor bogie lacks the 'lip/groove' to hold them in place. I think the way to go would be to get a second Hornby motor bogie and add weight in the centre of the body. Any idea where I can purchase detail packs that include the pickup shoes, etc? Hello, Hornby initially released the 73 without traction tyres, later versions had these. I bought new wheel sets with traction tyres from Lendons of Cardiff very cheaply that are simple to change, might be an alternative way to go rather than adding a second powered bogie. Dave 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNZIR SLR Marksman Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 Thanks. Worth checking out so I'll ask Peters Spares if they can supply the later wheel sets with traction tyres. That firm carries a lot of Hornby, Bachmann & other manufacturers' spares. I could get these fitted locally by my model specialist and get pickups added to the non-powered bogie too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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