GW loading gauge in 4 mm scale

[Compound2632]

Apologies that this is only tangentally a rolling stock question but this seems like the best place to ask: what is the best option for a GW loading gauge in 4 mm scale? 

[rprodgers]

Ratio (now Peco ) manufacture one

 

https://peco-uk.com/products/gwr-lms-joint-loading-gauge

[corneliuslundie]

Or you might find a Mike's Models one on e-bay or similar.

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, rprodgers said:

Ratio (now Peco ) manufacture one

 

https://peco-uk.com/products/gwr-lms-joint-loading-gauge

 

In what way is that one joint - is it native to the ex-GW/LNW Joint Line? It's got the ears down; my impression is that they usually stood with the ears up: https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrss541.htm

 

[corneliuslundie]

Mine has them "ears" up. It was fairly challenging to assemble. I think it was an MM one.

 

Jonathan

[Denbridge]

On 28/09/2022 at 14:15, corneliuslundie said:

Or you might find a Mike's Models one on e-bay or similar.

Jonathan

Mike's Models are still available from Holt model railways in Swansea. No website but very helpful on the phone.

[Compound2632]

Any views on the Wizard one?

[Mikkel]

Mine is the early variant from the Smith range: 

 

 

https://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Smiths_Components_for__OO__.html

 

 

[Compound2632]

The Wizard one has a whitemetal "rail" post and an etch for the gauge itself, with the ears up.

 

The enquiry is for a club layout usually run as 1955 so not too fussy about dates!

Edited October 4, 2022 by Compound2632

[Harlequin]

On 28/09/2022 at 14:20, Compound2632 said:

 

In what way is that one joint - is it native to the ex-GW/LNW Joint Line? It's got the ears down; my impression is that they usually stood with the ears up: https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrss541.htm

 

The Ratio product seems to be based on a drawing that's reproduced in Vaughn's "A pictorial record of Great Western Architecture". This drawing is titled "G.W.R. and L.M. & S.R. (division 'A') Joint Lines New Standard Load Gauge". Dated 1925.

 

The post and bracket are the standard GWR design, same as used for pure GWR loading gauges, but the shape of the gauge itself differs. The "joint" gauge has a rounded top and short lift up ends whereas the GWR gauge has a flat top and longer lift-up ends.

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Harlequin

[Oil-burner]

Smiths G.W.R Rail built load gauge Ref: WTSF04 is available from Scalelink and is shown on this page of their site. It's about half way down the page. I've not seen one in the flesh but the shape looks about right.

No connection etc....

Ken...

[Compound2632]

53 minutes ago, Oil-burner said:

Smiths G.W.R Rail built load gauge Ref: WTSF04 is available from Scalelink and is shown on this page of their site. It's about half way down the page. I've not seen one in the flesh but the shape looks about right.

 

That is the same as the one sold by Wizard, which is listed as being a Smiths product.

 

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

The Ratio product seems to be based on a drawing that's reproduced in Vaughn's "A pictorial record of Great Western Architecture". This drawing is titled "G.W.R. and L.M. & S.R. (division 'A') Joint Lines New Standard Load Gauge". Dated 1925.

 

The post and bracket are the standard GWR design, same as used for pure GWR loading gauges, but the shape of the gauge itself differs. The "joint" gauge has a rounded top and short lift up ends whereas the GWR gauge has a flat top and longer lift-up ends.

 

 

So the Ratio post and bracket with the Smiths gauge would be a viable combination? 

 

I have the Wizard one on order but want to assess the ruggedness of the whitemetal post - feeling that replacement with a length of nickel silver bullhead rail might be wise.

[corneliuslundie]

I managed to demolish my first loading gauge while trying to sort out something on the layout nearby, so a back-up is probably a good ides.

Jonathan

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

So the Ratio post and bracket with the Smiths gauge would be a viable combination? 

 

WTSA04, yes, I think that's the correct combination for a wholly GWR loading gauge.

 

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

WTSA04

 

Thanks. I wasn't aware that GW loading gauges came within the scope of the ITU's 2004 World Telecommunication Standardization Assembly.

[martinT]

I appreciate that Stephen asked about the source of a 4mm model but some of you may be interested in a 3 page article ‘GWR Loading Gauges’ by David Gardner in the latest Pannier (#47) – the journal of the Great Western Study Group. The main part is the reproduction of GW Circular 3277, entitled ‘Maximum Load Gauge’. This seems to be undated but it supersedes Circular 3062 of September 1928. The Circular specifies various dimensions & clearances & has drawings. The article also reproduces a drawing of a loading gauge from the August 1920 MRN. This is not an official GW drawing but the caption ends with ‘thanks to officials at Swindon for providing information …’

See the Pannier page of the GWSG’s website http://www.gwsg.org.uk/ for details of how to purchase a copy (£3 + £1p&p). The GWSG’s Publications Officer can be contacted at: publications@gwsg.org.uk

 

Martin

Edited October 10, 2022 by martinT
typo

[corneliuslundie]

What may be a stupid question but was there a single standard GWR loading gauge?

I know that the southern companies had different gauges on different lines because of tunnels, and I have a Cambrian drawing with three loading gauges shown (the dimensions not the hardware).

Jonathan

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

What may be a stupid question but was there a single standard GWR loading gauge?

 

https://www.devboats.co.uk/gwdrawings/loadinggauges.php

 

[Compound2632]

From the point of view of building a model loading gauge, the significant feature of the GW gauge seems to me to be that it is flatter across the central section than many others. This is what makes the Ratio gauge unsuitable - though no doubt correct for the Joint Line - and leads me to want to use it with the etched parts from the Smiths kit. I now have that and am unimpressed by the whitemetal rail post, as I expected to be!

[Il Grifone]

There was one on the headshunt of Clifton Down goods yard (now buried under a supermarket! :(  ), when I lived there in the fifties. I never saw the 'ears' lowered.I seem to recall a flat top despite the line being GWR/LMS joint. BR then of course, but most of the locomotves and rolling stock was pre-nationalisation (16T minerals excepted).

I have the Ratio kit stored somewhere. I must dig it out....

[MrWolf]

On 05/10/2022 at 11:51, Oil-burner said:

Smiths G.W.R Rail built load gauge Ref: WTSF04 is available from Scalelink and is shown on this page of their site. It's about half way down the page. I've not seen one in the flesh but the shape looks about right.

No connection etc....

Ken...

 

This is the early wooden post type by Smith assembled and painted plus a light weathering.

 

[Mikkel]

Very nice Wolf. Incidentally, in  Great Western Branchline Modelling (Vol 2 p71) Stephen Williams says dark stone for base of post and white for the rest, but adds that some may have been all over light stone. I've found evidence of the latter, e.g.:

 

 

Unfotunately no date to this photo. I have been wondering whether this livery difference is a period thing, or reflects wooden vs metal types, or is just everyday improv.

 

 

[Compound2632]

The lime-washed cattle wagon provides a latest date of c. 1927 (IIRC) for @Mikkel's photo. Now the one I'm making needs to be in c. 1955 condition - I was thinking grubby white with black for the first few feet above ground but would light stone / dark stone have survived?

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The lime-washed cattle wagon provides a latest date of c. 1927 (IIRC) for @Mikkel's photo. Now the one I'm making needs to be in c. 1955 condition - I was thinking grubby white with black for the first few feet above ground but would light stone / dark stone have survived?

It might not have been repainted by then but that also depends on what colour it was painted the previous time round.  Lesser locations seem to have been repainted at quite extended intervals - Henley station was repainted in 1957 (the painters kindly painted the date of the work in a nice visible place that you could see from the concourse).  And I doubt it had previously been repainted since nationalisation.

 

However don't overlook the fact that on the Western the different departments worked on different cycles for repainting although I assume that anything under the traffic/comm ercial depts was dealt with similarly to anywhere else under those depts - but depending on its importance.

[MrWolf]

On 24/10/2022 at 07:50, Mikkel said:

Very nice Wolf. Incidentally, in  Great Western Branchline Modelling (Vol 2 p71) Stephen Williams says dark stone for base of post and white for the rest, but adds that some may have been all over light stone. I've found evidence of the latter, e.g.:

 

 

Unfotunately no date to this photo. I have been wondering whether this livery difference is a period thing, or reflects wooden vs metal types, or is just everyday improv.

 

 

 

Interesting to see that the bow is definitely painted white here @Mikkel, from above it makes sense, but how about against the sky in daylight?