GWR milk trains

[Karhedron]

On 24/10/2021 at 16:55, Fat Controller said:

'The Red Dragon and other old friends' has some photos of milk traffic on the southern end of the Central Wales.

 

Thanks for the tip. I had been planning to pick up a copy and your reminder was the final nudge I needed to actually order it.

[Fat Controller]

3 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Thanks for the tip. I had been planning to pick up a copy and your reminder was the final nudge I needed to actually order it.

It's a lovely book, with lots of evocative photos, most not fixated on filling the frame with the loco at the expense of the rest of the train.

[hmrspaul]

Not quite on topic but perhaps worthwhile to point out that the current Backtrack - February 2022 - has an article about the derailment of the 20.15 Kensington to Whitland empty milk train on 20 September 1966. A  train of 46 tanks behind a class 47. There are a series of 3 very nice colour photos of what is quite a smash up. Most of the barrels are the usual filth but one is a very clear EXPRESS DAIRY in very large lettering. The consist isn't given - it may be in the report which is referenced - but the tail coaches look to be a BR BG and possibly an LMS 6 wheel Stove. 

It references two examinations of the entire BR milk tank fleet - mentioning both 592 in July 1967 and 607 at possibly a later date. There is mention in the article that the number appears to have increased! B3183 is blamed for the accident - I have a photo of B3181 and this has the filler at one end - I wonder if 3183 was the same as excessive speed and poorly balanced springs are blamed. 

From a modellers viewpoint, as frequently happens with accidents, there are some nice photos of the underneath of the wagons, as well as nice crane action. 

 

Paul

PS (my website is referenced, I have no idea why it isn't mentioned in the text that I can see). https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, hmrspaul said:

The consist isn't given - it may be in the report which is referenced

 

Not in any detail: https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_ChippingSodbury1966.pdf

[The Stationmaster]

On 31/01/2022 at 12:59, Compound2632 said:

 

Not in any detail: https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_ChippingSodbury1966.pdf

Thanks for that link - a very interesting Report (and an unsurprising conclusion that it was down to excessive speed with allthe other factors very carefully taken into consideration).   And fascinating to read that Brian Bedwell was at that time a C&W  Inspector as when I knew him in the early/mid 1980s he was the WR Regional C&W Engineer. 

[KeithMacdonald]

Our old friend Paul Bartlett has plenty of pics of milk wagons and syphons

 

GWR/BR

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrbrmilktanks

 

GWR/BR Syphons

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrsiphon

 

[Karhedron]

They say a picture speaks a thousand words and the Didcot Railway Centre has just posted this lovely shot of 2973 Robins Bolitho on a milk train at Kensington Olympia. This is a proper mixed bag with a Rotank at the front and a mix of 4-wheeled and 6-wheeled milk tanks. There is a mix of both United Dairies and CWS tanks in the rake as well as 2 brake vans in the rake.

 

 

Not much information is given on the webpage but with a little detective work, we can figure out some details. The lead Rotank is 2501, one of only 3 Rotanks that the GWR constructed for United Dairies which entered traffic in 1932. 2973 was withdrawn in 1933. Baesd on the bare trees, I am pretty confident this photo was taken in the winter of 1932/33. The only GWR station to dispatch UD Rotanks was Maiden Newton in Dorset which dispatched tanks to the UD bottling plant in Forest Hill around this time.

 

If my estimate of the date is correct, the CWS tank is probably heading for either Wallingford or Melksham as I think these were the only CWS dairies on the GWR at that time handling rail tanks. I am not sure where it would have unloaded. CWS had a short-lived unloading point at Clapham Junction at this time but I have only heard of it being used to discharge Rotanks. The CWS had a larger facility at Stewarts Lane but I have not been able to find out the date that it opened.

 

The numerous 4-wheeled tanks were probably serving Mitre Bridge and/or Vauxhall. The large United Dairies plant at Wood Lane did not open until 1934.

 

The lead Rotank is interesting as I do not know what livery it was in. The first batch of Unitead Dairies tanks were painted white but tanks built in the early 30s were in a darker livery with white lettering. I have also seen photos of 6-wheeled tanks in this livery so it was not limited to Rotanks. The annoying thing is that I cannot work out what colour was used as there seems to be no record I can find. My personal guess is that they were painted in the dark orange colour scheme of contemporary UD road vehicles as it looks about the rigght shade and I cannot think what other colour might have been used. Does anyone have a definitive answer to this? This is the colour I think it might have been.

 

[Nearholmer]

Didn’t we establish in another thread/discussion that rotanks were unloaded at East Croydon at some date? Dead easy run from Addison Road, and although I think regular passenger service between the two places had ceased by the 1930s, there were NPCS trains, worked through by LMS locos.

[KeithMacdonald]

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

The only GWR station to dispatch UD Rotanks was Maiden Newton in Dorset

 

Is that the same kind as the rotank at Didcot?

 

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/214/no-3030-rotank-flat-wagon

 

[Karhedron]

14 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Didn’t we establish in another thread/discussion that rotanks were unloaded at East Croydon at some date? Dead easy run from Addison Road, and although I think regular passenger service between the two places had ceased by the 1930s, there were NPCS trains, worked through by LMS locos.

 

Yes, the Rotanks unloaded at East Croydon were the CWS ones for the dairy on the corner of Lebanon Road and Leslie Park Road. That UD Rotank would have been going somewhere else.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Karhedron

[Karhedron]

14 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Is that the same kind as the rotank at Didcot?

 

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/214/no-3030-rotank-flat-wagon

 

Very similar. The preserved example at Didcot is a post-war diagram O49 Rotank, the one shown above is a diagram O37 which was the first design of Rotank that the GWR built. The preserved example was built for Henry Edwards and Son which actually had a small dairy near Kensington Olympia on Hoffland Road. Here is a photo of a pre-war LMS tank for the same company which gives an idea of how they would have looked when new (courtesy of the late Glen Woods).

 

 

Here is an aerial view of the HE&S dairy in Kensington in 1939 showing the station on the left.

 

[Penrhos1920]

On 23/10/2021 at 12:37, Karhedron said:

 

DId someone call my name?

 

The simple answer is yes, milk trains did run with tanks from different dairy companies. The longer answer is that it is slightly more complicated and depends on when and where you were looking.

 

The first milk tanks were introduced in 1927 and initially only a few creameries were equipped to handle them. The first two dispatching dairies were Wootton Bassett on the GWR and Calvely on the LMS. Both were owned by United Dairies and dispatched to their bottling plant at Mitre Bridge. Initially these milk tanks ran in dedicated trains because there were not enough dairies dispatching tanks to make up mixed trains. Here are some examples of dedicated milk trains.

 

Caynham Court hauls the United Dairies Wootton Bassett - Mitre Bridge milk train through Sonning Cutting in the 1930s.

 

3442 Bullfinch hauls the Independent Milk Supplies Dorrington - Marylebone trains through Birmingham Snow Hill in 1937.

 

 

It was only later in the 1930s when enough dispatching dairies were equipped to send tanks that mixed milk trains started to develop. One of the early examples was the Whitland to Kensington milk train. In 1938 this would have been a real modeller's delight with a mix of tanks from various dairies, all in colourful pre-nationalisation liveries and accompanied by a couple of Siphons to handle churn traffic. The 1938 WTT details the following makeup of the train.

 

EDIT - I will post a summary of the WTT as soon as I can work out how to post tables. 

 

That's an intersting brake van in that first photo.  Looks like a K17 postal brake van that's escaped from a mail train.

 

Don't forget that milk trains often had 2 or 3 or more brake vans in them as trains got joined up a long the route.  The GWR had a weird collection of old 4 and 6 wheel saloons repurposed for milk trains, mostly to carry churns I think.  There was an 11 part series on GWR milk traffic in the HMRS journals at some point.  I only have part 11 which doesn't tell me the year or anything, but I'm guessing the late 80s.

[hmrspaul]

1 hour ago, Penrhos1920 said:

 

There was an 11 part series on GWR milk traffic in the HMRS journals at some point.  I only have part 11 which doesn't tell me the year or anything, but I'm guessing the late 80s.

The final one was about milk tanks Jack Slinn's article in the HMRS Journal vol 12 part 3 1985 pages 87 - 92.

The others are in vol 11 and the early part of 12, so 1981 -5. The basis of the HMRS book on Siphons, currently being revised to be published by Wild Swan. 

 

Paul

[Karhedron]

  

7 hours ago, Penrhos1920 said:

That's an intersting brake van in that first photo.  Looks like a K17 postal brake van that's escaped from a mail train.

 

I think it is a Dean clerestory brake so a K17 is certainly plausible.