York station in the 1950's.

[DCB]

On 05/07/2022 at 17:10, lanchester said:

A general question, certainly not specific to this incredible model. I know cars and other vehicles were significantly smaller back in the day, but on any accurately scaled model, which I am sure this is, they look disproportionately tiny (and the roadways, by comparison, disproportionately large. Same applies to the vast empty spaces of goods yards when modelled to scale). The forecourt of 'Great Northern's Peterborough North layout exhibits the same phenomenon. I imagine this is something to do with our perspectives when we are live at street level, as opposed to taking the 'helicopter view' of a model.

 

But my questions are, firstly, is this just me? And if it isn't, do any modellers feel tempted to 'adjust' the scaling (presumably of the roads since I assume most of the vehicles on anyone's layout are bought-in) to make an optical correction (sort of the reverse of some of the forced perspective techniques used for backgrounds? And if so, any recommendations on how and how far to go about this, given any adjustment is likely to b*gg*r the geometry?

 

 I think the opposite which is cars and commercials have to absolutely bang on scale size to look right,  The Cararama 1:72 scale Mini etc looks far too big for 4mm 1:76, 00 etc and the various 00/H0 cars around 1:80 far too small for 00 IMHO especially when used as loads, but more important is correct positioning, cars parked up, buses at bus stops, cars queued at lights, any plausible reason for them to be stopped will always look better  IMHO than cars randomly dotted on the carriageway,  Foreground moving cars are usually missing from the  period photos we use as reference as a foreground car or bus usually ruins the picture.

 

But the bigger issue is road surface, the markings are distinctive, done using a stencil, not freehand, and the road surface livery ranges from Matt Black when damp, through Gloss Black when raining, to Matt Silver when dry to Gloss Silver in strong sunlight. Roads are never ever flat, usually cambered, steeply in the 1920 -1980 era, but always inclined slightly, so water runs to the next drain, not pools in the gutter.  Flat level ply baseboard painted up is never going to cut it. If there is an upgrade York could use it is modelled roads.

 

Yard Width, geometry, just build it so it looks right,  Often we build yards with fully ballasted track which would look right on the down fast whereas in reality sidings were often ballasted with dirt right to rail level so lorries could run over the tracks, Pre lorries horses could turn much sharper,  get things like that right and suddenly it looks right.  Maybe a lorry blocks the track, so what, its got wheels it can be moved while wagons pass,

[6990WitherslackHall]

 

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Then and now...

 

[kirtleypete]

Super pictures Tony, thanks for posting them. I'm glad someone dusted the river!!

 

As for the roads, you're right of course but we've only got one lifetime and sometimes you do have to compromise. 

Peter

Edited July 9, 2022 by kirtleypete

[Dunsignalling]

On 08/07/2022 at 11:41, Wheatley said:

 

It's not you, 1950s/60s cars were significantly smaller than modern ones. A modern Ford Fiesta is a foot longer and about 9" wider than a Morris Traveller. All those crumple zones, deformable plastic bumpers, side air bags and impact protection thingies take up space. 

 

Not long ago, I encountered a new Focus parked adjacent to a Mk2 Zodiac. Very little difference in size. 

 

With its modern big mirrors, the Focus was actually wider overall....

 

John

Edited July 9, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Tartaruga]

On 08/07/2022 at 12:05, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

I walked past those cottages on a visit to York last month and remembered I'd seen them on RMWeb! Great modelling

[kirtleypete]

I've been down today to do some more on the layout, on the day that BRM was published with the article on the layout so far. Following the release of the video my customer Giles Baxter can now be named and even watched in all his glory! 

 

 

The backscene has been extended and the join tidied up. 

 

 

I delivered 'North Eastern Terrace' and installed it, a short curved terrace of houses right next to the loco shed. 

 

 

 

It fills in a dead area of baseboard very nicely.

 

 

I also delivered the arched retaining walls which had to be curved along this section. 

 

 

 

The rest of the backscene will be completed when I've got the right sheets, I'd ordered the wrong ones and the blue was totally different.

 

 

The incline on the right is quite gentle but it's still going to be a test with long trains.

 

 

Some of Giles' superb trackwork.

 

Peter

Edited October 8, 2022 by kirtleypete

[AY Mod]

Doing the trackplan for Giles' excellent article in the mag sent me cross-eyed several times over. It may help to give some context within this topic too.

 

 

What an enormous achievement!

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, kirtleypete said:

Some of Gile's superb trackwork.

 

Peter

Having been privileged to see this exceptional layout, I can confirm that it's not just Peter's craftsmanship in reproducing in minitature the magnificent architecture of the station and its environs that is so impressive, but also the smoothness of running through the sweeping curves of the complex junctions at each end of the station, and the lifting access panel - the trackwork is also excellent.

[AdeMoore]

12 hours ago, AY Mod said:

Doing the trackplan for Giles' excellent article in the mag sent me cross-eyed several times over. It may help to give some context within this topic too.

 

 

What an enormous achievement!

Enormous achievement most definitely.

Been watching with amazement since the start.

The track plan is very useful great to see where it all lies on the ground so to speak.

[6990WitherslackHall]

12 hours ago, AY Mod said:

Doing the trackplan for Giles' excellent article in the mag sent me cross-eyed several times over. It may help to give some context within this topic too.

 

 

What an enormous achievement!

11 and 12 is where the National Railway Museum now stands. 

 

 

 

(Yes, I know it's now called Railway Museum now)

[RichardT]

On 08/10/2022 at 10:06, 6990WitherslackHall said:

(Yes, I know it's now called Railway Museum now)

A pedant (and former NRM curator) speaks:  it may be branded “Railway Museum” on the outside of the building and in publicity, but it’s still called the National Railway Museum.

 

That said, even National Railway Museum is just a brand - there is legally no such entity and you cannot enter into contracts with it.  It’s simply the name for a building housing some parts of the railway collections of the Science Museum, which is the actual legal entity, and which controls the finances, policies and staff.  At occasional moments in its history the NRM has managed to achieve degrees of autonomy, but South Kensington has always reversed these and “taken back control” as I believe the phrase is…

 

Richard T

Edited October 15, 2022 by RichardT
Grammar, but it still doesn’t look right.

[Michael Hodgson]

Yeah but the Science Museum signalling exhibits are now at Mangapps Farm as South Kensington thinks nobody want to know about railways any more.  Fortunately John Jolly has more sense.

[Mark Saunders]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Yeah but the Science Museum signalling exhibits are now at Mangapps Farm as South Kensington thinks nobody want to know about railways any more.  Fortunately John Jolly has more sense.

The number of wagons that have been rehoused makes me wonder what they want to keep and their policy is for the future?

[Harry Lund]

Hi everyone.   I've kept stumm until now and left Peter's thread to Peter.  He has long encouraged me to put my head above the parapet, and now the BRM article has been published, it seemed a good time to do so.   Firstly, thanks so much to you all for following and taking an interest, it has been a real encouragement from the outset.   There is still much to do on the layout, mostly on my side rather than Peter's, so I'll post photos as it progresses.   It won't be at the same pace though without Peter to chivvy me along!   In the meantime, here are a couple of Tony Wright's unpublished photos.   A fine view of the coaling plant, and of the Tees-Tyne Pullman running through the station on the Up Main.  The Up service did not stop at York, but the down service did.   The photograph captures some of the detail of the wrought iron structure supporting the platform canopies at the southern end.  The columns and brackets are 3D printed, Peter scratch built the rest.   Giles

[kirtleypete]

Excellent pics; welcome to the club! 😃

Peter

[AdeMoore]

Excellent Giles, it is a truly remarkable build.

Ade

[Fishplate]

On 07/10/2022 at 18:53, kirtleypete said:

the arched retaining walls which had to be curved along this section.

 

Hi @kirtleypete. Those look great. I have similar to do (curved in plan and descending gradient). May I ask what you used as the basis structure please ?

[Harry Lund]

Hi.  The walls are made from mounting card.  I produced a template in card which Peter then built out with the retaining walls.  Hopefully these photos tell the story.   Giles

[DougN]

Wow I look forward to reading the BRM with this wonderful layout in it. However British railway modelling November edition wont make it to Australia until about January! it is a fantastic achievement I am surprised that it has fitted in a space of about 30ft x 30ft! I know that you have rationalised areas but you have acheived such a great representation that screams YORK!

 

 

[Harry Lund]

Thank you Doug (hope I guessed that right).   Giles

[Harry Lund]

Morning everyone.   I hope you are sitting down with a whisky to hand as I am about to confess a sacrilege   We had a visit this weekend from the giant Finn MacCool riding the footplate of his On30 something or other.   The loco was brought to me by a friend to see if I diagnose the cause of the rear truck derailing on tighter curves.   Found and remedied.   I then had the bright idea, as On30 gauge = OO gauge, of running it around York.... on the Up Main to avoid platform fouling.   It ran perfectly.......  but I forgot about the footbridge!       (With apologies for the rotated image.   I couldn't for the life of me work out how to sort it)

 

Giles 

[TerryBewdley]

I am speechless incredible modelling.

 

[AY Mod]

Your fame is spreading Giles!

 

https://yorkmix.com/watch-model-railway-enthusiast-creates-stunning-version-of-york-station-in-perfect-miniature/

 

I've just forwarded on another press enquiry. ;)

[Harry Lund]

Goodness.

[Harry Lund]

I've allowed myself in the last two weeks to be diverted from finishing the Loco Yard and its ashpits, onto developing the main running lines and the arrangement of fiddle yards along the back wall.   The 1:50 incline is proving to present an operational challenge in that only the heavier locos can tackle them with 9 coaches on (Yes Tony, I know ...).   So where to fit the Down Main storage yards?   An 8 road yard will fit neatly into the top right corner, sitting under the Scarborough lines.   Hopefully this adaptation of Andy York's trackplan gives a feel for the overall scheme.       

 

Here is a photo looking toward the bridge.  The two lines on the right are a two very long sidings which will each take either a very long train, or two shorter ones.  I'll post more once I work out how to stop them rotating 90 or 180 degrees.  Any clues anyone?

 

 

Giles