quiksilver1979 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Hi All, Hope this is the correct part of the forum to ask for help. I have been through several iterations of an OO gauge layout and not been happy with any! I don't have the experience or understanding of real world operations to an extent that allows me to plan a layout successfully. I'd like to have help with the layout and then learn and gain experience from using it. I have an 8' x 8' room. Typically the door opens inwards and investigations with carpenters reveals that to swap it to open outwards would mean removing the entire frame and turning it round! I think I'm stuck with the door opening inwards. In started with 2' deep baseboards round all walls except the one across the door. I had a slim 9" section running across (similar to my proposed plan below). I then scrapped the thin section and had a sliding 2' board that slid up behind the door (when closed) so I could get a wider loop. This was dangerous though as if anything happened to me in the room, the door was essentially closed with a baton across the back of it! plus the sliding section could possibly cause issues with track joints at the ends.... Anyway, my last attempt saw me remove the main board from the window wall and try an end to end L shape (with a little lift up board across the window to serve as an 'off scene' runaround so I could get locos back to the front of the train to run back round the L shape and into the station area in the corner near the door... (Hope your imagination is good! lol). Anyway, I've put too much track down, I'm not enjoying the end to end layout and I would like a loop again... I am thinking my only real option is to go back to the slim cross section. So, to give you a visual... The boards as they are at the moment: and the boards I am considering putting back in place: The room is 8' x 8'. The door is 2.5' which leaves from the wall opposite the door to the edge of the door when open as 5.5', which is where the slim cross section will sit... All of my points are 91 & 92 Small Radius Peco points I have around 10 LH and 10 RH at the moment but can buy more if needed.. would prefer to utilise these in any track design.... Also, I am DCC with a Prodigy Express set up - I'm comfortable wiring up the BUS and dropper wires too. just the layout has me stumped! I hope someone can give me an idea of what I can do with this space. I have BR Blue diesels (25, 37, 47, 2x 20's, 2 x 08's), some mk2 coaches, a 108 DMU and a few mineral wagons and box vans... I'd like to be able to do some shunting (maybe a goods yard/shed - a brewery yard would be nice) and a small station or two (terminus or mainline, I don't mind either/or!). I've provided a blank slate above and I don't have any reliable track design software... I'm hoping someone with some experience in how to make an operationally interesting layout can help me out with some suggestions/visuals. many people say planning/laying track is the best part - I'm finding it stressful! I'm much more inclined to trust someone else design as I find it much easier to doubt myself than someone else! I am looking forward to scenics, so would like a few bridges/cuttings etc to break up the layout.. I'm also not averse to an incline + upper level somewhere, if it might make better use of the space! I'm almost at a point where I start begging people to help! Really appreciate any advice. Thanks. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted April 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2018 Would a double track main line continuous run with a terminus at either end work for you? Could add additional interest by making it a low/high level superimposed dumbbell.... Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted April 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2018 My first thought: if a roundy-roundy is wanted, I think I would just bridge the door with a removable plank (possibly masquerading as a bridge) rather than have that section across the middle of the room. And you may get more ideas coming in if you ask the Mods to move this to "Layout and Track Design" under "Skills and Knowledge Centre" - that's where the planning gurus lurk! Cheers Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Consider making the door a stable door with the bottom half opening under the board, that will cover the safety issue and still allow a folding board across the doorway. Regards 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 One other option to consider would be to replace the current door with a folding version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver1979 Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 Thanks guys. The door to the study is off the main hallway downstairs so I really can’t change or remove this. All the doors off the hallway match! I would be in much trouble if I did anything like that! mods - please feel free to move this to a more appropriate section Cheers. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver1979 Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) Would a double track main line continuous run with a terminus at either end work for you? Could add additional interest by making it a low/high level superimposed dumbbell.... Phil Thanks Phil. That’s actually what I have in my head... thought upper level near the boxed in pipes I could fit in a branch with a factory or goods shed etc... just struggling with the actual track planning! Cheers. Steve. Edited April 17, 2018 by quiksilver1979 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver1979 Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 My first thought: if a roundy-roundy is wanted, I think I would just bridge the door with a removable plank (possibly masquerading as a bridge) rather than have that section across the middle of the room. And you may get more ideas coming in if you ask the Mods to move this to "Layout and Track Design" under "Skills and Knowledge Centre" - that's where the planning gurus lurk! Cheers Chris Thanks Chris. I did think about a hinged section but a lift out section could work if it can be forced out by opening the door... but then there is risk if someone else opened the door when the bridge was in place... food for thought though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Right Away Posted April 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2018 Hi Steve Thought this might be of help. When planning your track layout and it's placement within the constraints of the baseboards have you considered trying the AnyRail computer program. If I remember correctly, it's available to use FOC with a limited amount of objects selected; the full version is chargeable but gives unlimited object selection. Track scale and manufacturers can be selected together with all their proprietary turnouts; you can customise radii for curves amongst many other useful tasks. It might seem a bit fiddly to begin with but can be worthwhile in ensuring you only eventually purchase the trackwork items required and knowing they will fit. By printing out your design in sections I've found you can get by with just the trial version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted April 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2018 Thanks Chris. I did think about a hinged section but a lift out section could work if it can be forced out by opening the door... but then there is risk if someone else opened the door when the bridge was in place... food for thought though! I was thinking just lift it out when you want to leave, and stick it on some brackets on a wall somewhere - and bolt the door when you're inside! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver1979 Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 Hi Steve Thought this might be of help. When planning your track layout and it's placement within the constraints of the baseboards have you considered trying the AnyRail computer program. If I remember correctly, it's available to use FOC with a limited amount of objects selected; the full version is chargeable but gives unlimited object selection. Track scale and manufacturers can be selected together with all their proprietary turnouts; you can customise radii for curves amongst many other useful tasks. It might seem a bit fiddly to begin with but can be worthwhile in ensuring you only eventually purchase the trackwork items required and knowing they will fit. By printing out your design in sections I've found you can get by with just the trial version. Hi RA, I do have a layout at present and had one with the boards in place as per the ‘proposed’ layout. I wanted to leave it as a clean slate. I did try several designs in layout software but I think it’s my experience/knowledge/creativity that is lacking! This was the final layout I tried to create before I changed to the L shape I now have... Thanks. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver1979 Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 I was thinking just lift it out when you want to leave, and stick it on some brackets on a wall somewhere - and bolt the door when you're inside! Thanks Chris, Bolting the door was something I was trying to avoid as would be difficult for anyone to get in if an emergency situation occurred in there! Very much worst case scenario but I like to be prepared! I also like the fact if my elderly grandad (in his 90's) comes round, he can stand in the doorway and watch operation.. and even have a go himself from there... I'll continue thinking but a drop in section behind the door may just do the job. Would have to have a 'DO NOT OPEN' sign on the outside when i'm in there Thanks. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Rehang the door to open outwards perhaps? Emma Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Finsbury Posted April 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18, 2018 Sliding door? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 One design I'm always partial to that keeps everything 'on scene' and might fit your needs is as below. Continuous run mainline for letting trains run, Terminus station so there's somewhere to stop without blocking a through station, return loop (easy enough to wire with DCC). goods sidings at the station and an industry on the mainline that can only be accessed from a trailing direction, this gives you your shunting options and a reason for freight to be reversed at the terminus. If you wanted to add a through station on the mainlines you can do quite easily (maybe on the return loop track). I've drawn it very basically, it is possible to stagger where the junctions are and add extra mainline tracks so trains have to go around the layout several times before being able to return to the terminus. Not sure if it can meet your space needs, but it's food for thought. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver1979 Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) Rehang the door to open outwards perhaps? Emma I have had a carpenter look into this (my wife would not let me attempt it - the house is only 10 years old and is immaculate!) - they thought the whole frame would have to come out and be turned around which would mean replastering and reepainting around the frame! I may get a second opinion although the door to my study is immediately to the right of the main front door, so if it opened outwards could clash with that one opening inwards!! I think it'll be easier to leave the door as is.. which is a pain, but something i'll have to work around I think! Sliding door? See above comments Finsbury - the wife would kill me if I did anything with the door. It's off the main entrance hall way and all the doors match exactly (all 5 of them!). Good suggestion though, just not possible in my case One design I'm always partial to that keeps everything 'on scene' and might fit your needs is as below. Continuous run mainline for letting trains run, Terminus station so there's somewhere to stop without blocking a through station, return loop (easy enough to wire with DCC). goods sidings at the station and an industry on the mainline that can only be accessed from a trailing direction, this gives you your shunting options and a reason for freight to be reversed at the terminus. If you wanted to add a through station on the mainlines you can do quite easily (maybe on the return loop track). I've drawn it very basically, it is possible to stagger where the junctions are and add extra mainline tracks so trains have to go around the layout several times before being able to return to the terminus. Not sure if it can meet your space needs, but it's food for thought. Thank SG - very helpful and constructive! This is the kind of thing I am looking for, thank you so much for taking the time to sketch something out... the reverse loop is so that, for example, a 2 coach train hauled by a class 47 would have the loco at the head, it could do a few loops and then hit the return loop, thus ensuring the loco is still at the head of the train when heading in the other direction back into the terminus? Not sure where I would have space for the reverse loop though... I assume it could run next to the main line and does not have to cut across the middle of the loop? I've just looked again and see it does need to cut across the centre section because of the alignment of the points - the whole point of it being a reverse loop! Sorry - just to blatantly show my ignorance.... the goods yard would be for storing wagons which can be shunted into order, then picked up and taken to the Industry to be loaded/unloaded, then run back into the goods yard for storage/shunting/sorting again? I assume I would need my 08 shunter sat in a head shunt over there... Would also like a small TMD as I have quite a few diesel loco's... I'll have a think about the concept and see if I can get something workable! Thanks again, food for thought indeed! Much appreciated Steve. Edited April 18, 2018 by quiksilver1979 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 You're welcome. I've seen that style built on an 8x4 in a magazine before (I think the return loop and the line to the terminus were single track) so it can work in your 8x8 room. You're correct with your operations descriptions. Ref the space for the return loop; you could either have another bridge across your room with it on, or have a wider board in a corner of the room to fit it on to as a balloon loop instead, so there are options. My works machine won't show me your pictures in the first post; does your door open in the middle of a wall or is it in a corner? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) Bolting the door was something I was trying to avoid as would be difficult for anyone to get in if an emergency situation occurred in there! Very much worst case scenario but I like to be prepared! Could you fit a bathroom/toilet door handle like this one? It needs to be paired with a bathroom-type mortice lock, such as one of these. The knob to bolt the door goes on the inside but it can be released from the outside in emergencies using a screwdriver on the slotted end of the lock spindle. The acceptability of such a solution to your Director of Domestic Decor might depend on being able to source replacement hardware that matches the existing door furniture. Edited April 18, 2018 by ejstubbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Additional: the TMD doesn't need to be at the station, they are often down the line a way. Depending what size boards you're comfortable with, the below is an example of how to fit the return loop in with the TMD in a position that makes it quick and easy to get locos to/from the terminus. It's just a bit of a stretch to the bottom left corner if anything derails. (Depends where your door is as well!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver1979 Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) Could you fit a bathroom/toilet door handle like this one? It needs to be paired with a bathroom-type mortice lock, such as one of these. The knob to bolt the door goes on the inside but it can be released from the outside in emergencies using a screwdriver on the slotted end of the lock spindle. The acceptability of such a solution to your Director of Domestic Decor might depend on being able to source replacement hardware that matches the existing door furniture. That is an idea - we have those on our bathroom doors so would be in keeping with the rest of the house... just as long as no one mistakes the study for somewhere to relieve themselves!! You're welcome. I've seen that style built on an 8x4 in a magazine before (I think the return loop and the line to the terminus were single track) so it can work in your 8x8 room. You're correct with your operations descriptions. Ref the space for the return loop; you could either have another bridge across your room with it on, or have a wider board in a corner of the room to fit it on to as a balloon loop instead, so there are options. My works machine won't show me your pictures in the first post; does your door open in the middle of a wall or is it in a corner? Door is in the middle unfortunately, but I could rotate your design 90 degrees and have the thicker boards on the far wall (opposite the door)... just reaching over to do scenics could be an issue (and if anything derails as you say, sure it's workable though!)... well worth some thought! Additional: the TMD doesn't need to be at the station, they are often down the line a way. Depending what size boards you're comfortable with, the below is an example of how to fit the return loop in with the TMD in a position that makes it quick and easy to get locos to/from the terminus. It's just a bit of a stretch to the bottom left corner if anything derails. (Depends where your door is as well!) Brilliant, thanks for the help and advice so far! I honestly hadn't even thought of having any section wider than 2' so that opens up a whole new world of possibility for me! Cheers! Also - My work PC doesn't show the pictures in my posts, but I can access the site and the images direct... Try these links: https://s19.postimg.cc/y2z5o1e7n/Layout_Room_Plan_Original.jpg https://s19.postimg.cc/qmzw28y83/Layout_Room_Plan_Proposed.jpg The old layout I decided on but still wasn't 100% sure about (linked in a later post above)! https://s19.postimg.cc/dg1pujzj7/CFA9_C895-8_FC4-4_C4_C-98_F7-_C2_E8_B5279_E72.jpg Thanks. Steve. Edited April 18, 2018 by quiksilver1979 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver1979 Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 I had a quick play to fit something into my room... based on SG's suggestion - hopefully this image will be visible too! Thanks, Steve. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6029 King Stephen Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) Have you considered selling your OO and changing to N gauge? You would then effectively have the same space as 16’ x 16’ in OO. I am sure that all the OO gauge diesels that you have are available in N. I have had the same problem as you in the past - where you have a certain number of points already and are then looking for a layout plan that will match the track pieces that you already have. I appreciate that you have stated that you are starting with a clean slate, so this might not be applicable. Have you looked in track plan books for inspiration? Regards, Steve Edited April 18, 2018 by 6029 King Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilver1979 Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 Have you considered selling your OO and changing to N gauge? You would then effectively have the same space as 16’ x 16’ in OO. I am sure that all the OO gauge diesels that you have are available in N. I have had the same problem as you in the past - where you have a certain number of points already and are then looking for a layout plan that will match the track pieces that you already have. I appreciate that you have stated that you are starting with a clean slate, so this might not be applicable. Have you looked in track plan books for inspiration? Regards, Steve Hi Steve, I have considered selling up and going N Gague. My grandad had an N Gague end to end layout in his box room 25 years ago, that was about 8' long and 4' wide... it was immense how much he fit in. I have also inherited about 30 of his N Gague steam locos and all his rolling stock - but none of it would run on DCC I know the detail in N Gague locos has improved greatly in recent years... I just struggle with fiddly parts of OO Gague as it is! You may have a point though. I will give it some serious thought! I could always sell 75% of my OO Gague stuff, keep some wagons and a shunter + 1 or 2 main line locos and build an end to end portable exhibition layout in my garage.... I will give it some serious thought! Thank you Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 I think you are trying to squeeze a quart into a jam jar here. Loads of complicated trackwork but no room for trains. A class 47 looks a bit limp on anything less than 5 coaches which is a 6 foot train in 00. Add a 2ft radius approach curve and that is your whole room length. The # 15 layout suggestion requires curved diamonds which as far as I know aren't available ready to lay, #19 is hopelessly cramped for 00 but might work in N. My double bed layout can take 5 coach trains on a 78" X 54" layout with terminus, spiral and return loop at the expense of steep gradients. Most of the old CJF style 8X4 layouts were intended for small steam locos and short trains, a Pannier tank and a couple of coaches looks ok on them, a class 47 or 55 with 2 coaches looks faintly ridiculous. I would suggest you engineer out the issue of the track across the doorway, mount it on a vertical hinge so it swings see pic and use the whole room. That way you can arrange it so the door can be forced open if necessary simply overcoming spring or magnetic force to push the pivot section out of the way. Cheltenham Station had two platforms and double track in the 1990s and turned back London trains with 50s and 47s on, had mainline freights, Plymouth Newcastle cross country trains with 47s HSTs etc Parcels / Mail trains stopped there and unloaded mail for the sorting office. Carriage sidings were beyond the bridge out of sight, you don't need a lot of complicated track for complicated operating Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted April 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) Hi Steve, You need to draw your ideas to scale to know whether they will really fit in your room. (And you should measure your room accurately, including the positions and sizes of the boxing, the window and the door to ensure that you can design around them properly.) Given the small size of the room and the position of the door in the middle of one wall, a bridge across the doorway is almost certainly the best way to create a circuit. Here's a design for a similarly sized room: This one is 8ft6 by 7ft6 with the door opening inwards in one corner but shows the sort of design that will fit: It is simple (in terms of trackwork) but should still be interesting to operate. Edited April 20, 2018 by Harlequin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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