What's going on with Hull Trains?

[JeffP]

I keep seeing about them constantly cancelling trains on the evening local news, but can't find anything much on line.

 

One day this week they had NO services running to London. Another day, an advertised service took it's passengers to Doncaster and advised them to join other services, before returning to Hull.

 

Anyone shed any light?

[iands]

I keep seeing about them constantly cancelling trains on the evening local news, but can't find anything much on line.

 

One day this week they had NO services running to London. Another day, an advertised service took it's passengers to Doncaster and advised them to join other services, before returning to Hull.

 

Anyone shed any light?

I had heard that Hull Trains were suffering from unit reliability/availability issues - partly inherited when the units were transferred from the western region? Not sure if it is one of the inherited issues but something to do with the fuel tanks, apparently some sort of leak has developed which has resulted in the fuel/vapours igniting and causing fire to the unit - understandably more than a bit concerning if you are the one sat in that particular carriage at the time! I think there are two units out of service at the moment due to this issue. Perhaps someone else out there can confirm (or otherwise) my understanding?

 

Regards, Ian.

[Gordon Connell]

I keep seeing about them constantly cancelling trains on the evening local news, but can't find anything much on line.

 

One day this week they had NO services running to London. Another day, an advertised service took it's passengers to Doncaster and advised them to join other services, before returning to Hull.

 

Anyone shed any light?

 

I think this story sheds some light on the issues: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/hull-trains-managing-director-steps-down.html

[iands]

I think this story sheds some light on the issues: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/hull-trains-managing-director-steps-down.html

 

Thanks Gordon,

 

I think the "Peterborough incident in December" was related to a fuel leak/fire. I seem to recall there was a similar incident with a class 180 (but not sure how long ago) but whether or not it was a 'Hull Trains' unit or some other TOC I can't remember.

 

Regards, Ian.

['CHARD]

Thanks Gordon,

 

I think the "Peterborough incident in December" was related to a fuel leak/fire. I seem to recall there was a similar incident with a class 180 (but not sure how long ago) but whether or not it was a 'Hull Trains' unit or some other TOC I can't remember.

 

Regards, Ian.

 

'One has been out of service for repairs since an incident near Peterborough during December.'  

 

This IS the incident, and it was a Hull Trains 180 involved.

[BoD]

The full details of the changes are given on the National Rail service disruption page. Click on the pull down arrow for details.

 

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

[Zomboid]

The kind of thing you'd expect when you get a couple of failures in a really small fleet, really.

[PhilJ W]

It was reported on the travel news on BBC2 that some trains had been damaged by ice and snow.

[Hesperus]

I know that 5 of VXC's 91's and some EMU's suffered with ice in the traction motors but I hadn't heard of any trouble with diesel trains.

 

I suppose diesel electrics could get ice in the traction motors too but 180's are diesel hydraulic.

[Zomboid]

All trains are packed full of electronics these days. The primary traction system might not be electrical, but just about everything else on the trains will be.

[JeffP]

The one damaged by fire must have been pretty serious if it's taken almost three months to repair?

 

That's longer than most serious loco fires etc were in works for, I would have thought?

[uax6]

Have they got it back from RAIB yet? If the length of time it takes them to write up their reports is anything to go by, they probably won't get it back for another 3 months....

 

Andy G

[5944]

The one damaged by fire must have been pretty serious if it's taken almost three months to repair?

 

That's longer than most serious loco fires etc were in works for, I would have thought?

Doesn't help that the wiring for them runs above the engines apparently, so any sort of engine or exhaust fire causes massive problems.

[great central]

The one damaged by fire must have been pretty serious if it's taken almost three months to repair?

 

That's longer than most serious loco fires etc were in works for, I would have thought?

If I recall correctly 4 out of 5 fuel tanks ruptured for a start, not particularly an off the shelf item I would have thought, not to mention other incidental damage. I believe the initial problem was a tank falling off and bouncing along under the train

[Clearwater]

I know that 5 of VXC's 91's and some EMU's suffered with ice in the traction motors but I hadn't heard of any trouble with diesel trains.

 

I suppose diesel electrics could get ice in the traction motors too but 180's are diesel hydraulic.

I was interested to note that we were propelled by an EWS branded 90 on the ECML yesterday. The journey up the day before had been on a borrowed East Midlands HST.

[HullCityB17]

Hulltrains think that they can run all there services with four sets which they plan to replace with five units which I think are to be built once all the VTEC Class 803's? are built.

 

Since Hulltrains were first started running they have used 170/2's from Anglia which then went to Scotland. Pioneers Class 222's which we the first new build, which there were four sets but then one set fell or should that be 'was dropped' off the jacks at its home depot and it then spend 18months I believe at Crewe works for repairs.

 

This was when 86101 was hired in from KX to Doncaster with Blue and Grey MkIII's and the BR Blue DVT, and one 222 set worked Hull to Doncaster as a shuttle service.

 

These then were sent to East Midlands Trains when there lease expired and Hulltrains got the rejected Class 180's from Great Western which even the public on the Cardiff to London route hate various complaints. When Hulltrains have had issues with these they have hired in a Class 180 from Grand Central but to be honest as the FGW HST's are now going off lease, surely HT should get some of these instead of the Class 180's as NL, BN, HT & EC have plenty of staff who have maintained these over the years and they (HST's) are quite capable of getting you to your final destination even on one Power Car.

 

Also, they are easier to rescue in the event of a total failure than the Class 180, and they are not in a fixed formation so coaches and PC's can be split if necessary.

 

Also, with VEC running one return Hull to London still with a HST around 6/7am each day it wouldn't be too difficult to train staff in the use of door operations as they just need to work alongside VEC Staff.

 

The only thing that would take a bit of time is to train the drivers on the HST's although they may have to have a traveling fitter to couple up the train when it fails as I have heard that HT Staff refuse to do this which is one reason why HT will never run loco hauled services.

[black and decker boy]

Why would they switch to HSTs when they have brand new bi-mode class 802s on order and due for delivery next year?

 

HSTs need big money spending on them to run beyond 31-12-2019 and there are none spare right now. Hull Trains don’t use NL, BN etc for maintenance so having staff knowledge within VTEC isn’t really of consequence.

[JeffP]

More complicated than I thought, and reading on here of other problems elsewhere, I knew it wouldn't be simple.

 

Joe Public on the TV, though...."Why don't they just get more trains?"

[DY444]

Hulltrains think that they can run all there services with four sets which they plan to replace with five units which I think are to be built once all the VTEC Class 803's? are built.

 

Since Hulltrains were first started running they have used 170/2's from Anglia which then went to Scotland. Pioneers Class 222's which we the first new build, which there were four sets but then one set fell or should that be 'was dropped' off the jacks at its home depot and it then spend 18months I believe at Crewe works for repairs.

 

This was when 86101 was hired in from KX to Doncaster with Blue and Grey MkIII's and the BR Blue DVT, and one 222 set worked Hull to Doncaster as a shuttle service.

 

These then were sent to East Midlands Trains when there lease expired and Hulltrains got the rejected Class 180's from Great Western which even the public on the Cardiff to London route hate various complaints. When Hulltrains have had issues with these they have hired in a Class 180 from Grand Central but to be honest as the FGW HST's are now going off lease, surely HT should get some of these instead of the Class 180's as NL, BN, HT & EC have plenty of staff who have maintained these over the years and they (HST's) are quite capable of getting you to your final destination even on one Power Car.

 

Also, they are easier to rescue in the event of a total failure than the Class 180, and they are not in a fixed formation so coaches and PC's can be split if necessary.

 

Also, with VEC running one return Hull to London still with a HST around 6/7am each day it wouldn't be too difficult to train staff in the use of door operations as they just need to work alongside VEC Staff.

 

The only thing that would take a bit of time is to train the drivers on the HST's although they may have to have a traveling fitter to couple up the train when it fails as I have heard that HT Staff refuse to do this which is one reason why HT will never run loco hauled services.

 

You can rule out anything which requires co-operation between VTEC and HT.  VTEC are not even accepting HT tickets at the moment as it takes the view that HT brought this on itself.  After the December incident, trying to run the service with 4 units was always going to end in tears as HT knew that units would need to be taken out of service for upcoming exams even if none failed.  

Edited March 10, 2018 by DY444

[Hairy Bear Digital]

I know that 5 of VXC's 91's and some EMU's suffered with ice in the traction motors but I hadn't heard of any trouble with diesel trains.

 

I suppose diesel electrics could get ice in the traction motors too but 180's are diesel hydraulic.

Quite a few of our 222's were pulled out due to snow ingress and traction packages shutting down.

['CHARD]

Since Hulltrains were first started running they have used 170/2's from Anglia which then went to Scotland.

 

 

...even the public on the Cardiff to London route hate various complaints. 

 

When Hull Trains started operation, it was with its own 170/3s, nothing to do with Anglia.  

 

And surely everyone hates various complaints?  

[Hesperus]

Quite a few of our 222's were pulled out due to snow ingress and traction packages shutting down.

 

Could that be snow in the traction motors?  2xx units are diesel electric.

[pete_mcfarlane]

When Hull Trains started operation, it was with its own 170/3s, nothing to do with Anglia.

 

And surely everyone hates various complaints?

They definitely went through a phase of hiring Anglia 170s when they first started. IIRC they had Hull Trains headboards fitted. Then their own 170s, then the Meridiens.

[Ron Ron Ron]

.......then the Meridiens.

Pioneers !

 

[45125]

When Hull Trains started operation, it was with its own 170/3s, nothing to do with Anglia.  

 

And surely everyone hates various complaints?  

 

The first Hull Trains 170s were Anglia set, then the got the 170/3 that ended up with Scotrail.