pharrc20

OK cheers thanks for confirming that

A quick question regarding this model can it be operated as a 3-car unit? In the style of Baldrick I have a cunning plan... totally un-prototypical but it would suit a project I am involved with. I gather from reading all of the pages in the thread that the pantograph fitted car is the powered vehicle with the other cars all being non-powered? Cheers Paul

It was quite common to see an ex works hopper in amongst the dusty rusty coloured wagons especially in the 1970s to early 1990s. Have a look on Flickr for the new ICI Hoppers photo group that was recently set up for more examples. The rear 25 in that photo link would have been the banker loco and would have dropped off the rear just before the bridge where the photographer is standing leaving the front loco and it's loaded hoppers to make it over the summit a little further along the line towards Chinley. Top and tail moves did take place when the trains were diverted away from the booked route via Chinley, New Mills South Junction. This involved sending the trains via Buxton with a reversal at Great Rocks Junction, Buxton sidings and then Buxton station itself. Double headed 25s on front and single 25 on the rear was one example of this move. HTH Paul

Volume 3 of Air Braked Wagons by Tom Smith has some photos of the green BP TTAs. Not sure if the book is still in print but you can still find secondhand copies. It was published by Cheona Publications and I helped with the information on the wagons. HTH Paul

Ah right fair enough I just wondered. Cheers Paul

The CADS look good Hugh. Just one question though is that a vent of some sort on top of the barrel? Cheers Paul

Looking good Mick. The real life loop looks to have been abandoned for a while judging by the condition of the track and the train movements I saw there last time I was up there.

Don't forget there were 2 designs of PGAs for bulk salt traffic. The first design by Standard Wagon in the early 1970s as per the links provided by Paul Bartlett using chassis and leaf suspension similar to the TTA petroleum tanks. These were known as 'Baby Salts' and most were later resprung and used in ball clay, aggregates and abrasives traffic before eventually being stored. Quite a few ended up stored at Hindlow near Buxton and stayed there until the late 1990s before being taken away by road for scrap. The second design by Procor is of similar style to the Lima PGA model but involves doing a cut n shut to the body and chassis to extend to the correct wheelbase and body length. Most of these remained in salt traffic from Middlewich others were used from Grassington for Tilcon traffic. Two batches of these wagons were built. Chassis from both were eventually used under Railtrack PNA ballast/spoil open wagons. Scrap that last bit sorry thinking of something else whoops! I am modelling the first version for aggregates traffic when they were used in Peak District in late 80s early 90s. HTH Paul

I wonder which diagram the Prestwins will be? A good wagon to do to follow on from the Presflo, Covhop and Grain wagons. Paul

Hi cbeagleowner yes any of those with wagon running numbers in the 32xx 33xx ranges as per Hatton's codes ICI001 - 003 would be ok for 1950s operations. In old mono photos the wagons look almost as black as the 8Fs hauling them. HTH Paul

Ah I see! I will take a copy of the image that you posted if that is ok for my hopper archive. The photograph is one of the works ones taken by Charles Roberts and is wagon 3201 (later ICIM 19001) as both 3200 and 3202 had black painted numbers on the sloping hopper side. Cheers Paul

Hi FelixM, good photo. It is hard to tell really from that angle but I would say the first 5 wagons all look to be ex-I.C.I. as the top line of the hopper body looks all the same height all the way along. From memory the ex-Summers and by then ex-I.C.I. wagons numbered 19152-19164 were stored at Hindlow following their replacement by the Tiphook bogie KPA hoppers like the white/beige dirty ones seen in the background of the photo. They were added to the main Northwich pool after some of the ex-I.C.I. wagons had been scrapped or stored at Northwich to bring the fleet back upto strength. Summers wagons are usually distinguished by the slightly lower body height and the end ladders fitted at the end of the wagon on the right hand side when looking at the wagon end on. HTH Paul

Hi Cor, have you got a full scan of that report as it is not one I have seen before so I would be interested in a full copy image if possible cheers. Paul

Hi Cor-onGRT4 only the first three wagons built nos. 3200, 3201 and 3202 were outshopped with ICI LTD with the black lettering. All three were outshopped in a works photographic grey livery and each wagon has a different arrangement of hand brakes ranging from the central lever as shown in the photo, then small levers mounted on each bogie side frame and finally a central hand brake wheel, the latter being adopted as standard from wagon 3203 onwards. The different methods were to determine the best type and presumably ease of use for workers. I can't just recall when the levers were replaced by wheels or the LTD lettering removed as not at home right now but it might be in my book somewhere. HTH Paul

I have 3 31s with rotten chassis and split bodyshells all in different places and seemingly no way of getting them swapped for new chassis now reading the comments posted in the last few days. I had planned to get some of the DCR cheap ones from Hatton's but I guess everyone else had the same idea! Is there any merit in getting say a 3D printed chassis block made I wonder? Okay it won't have the weight of the original mazak chassis but I am sure some provision could be made to add weight whether liquid or sheet lead say. Cheers Paul

Yep one day when I have the time, space, money and inclination to finish the layout. Keep going Marcus you are doing great Cheers Paul

That would be telling! Nah I just followed the footpath that starts at the road and crosses the top of the Dove Holes tunnel mouth and just kept going until I came to the fenceline and followed it down from there. Not sure if you can still get up there but the stile and footpath sign are still there when I passed on foot a few weeks ago walking to Peak Dale along the road. You have done well Marcus with your model keep going. My own Speedlow layout is very much on the back-burner atm due to several things so good to see yours coming along nicely. Cheers Paul

Hi Marcus, seeing your photos of the wagon maintenance shed prompted me to recall that I took some photos of it some years ago one Sunday morning. So just to show you what it looks like from the other side.... HTH Paul

The Cemex branding seems to have been painted out towards the end of 2008 (along with the similarly branded IIA wagons) according to my photos. And also when first delivered new in early 2007 the first 6 EWS Construction HOAs I saw were in traffic from Tunstead with the JMA hoppers on aggregates traffic these being noted being loaded at Tunstead after a long hike up on top of Great Rocks Tunnel hillside. These were 320006 / 000 / 015 / 004 / 001 + 002 followed by 8 JMAs on 18th February 2007. You don't tend to see many at Peak Forest now sometimes the odd one in the sidings next to the road but I haven't seen a full rake there recently most of the work being done by the HTAs now. Cheers Paul

Yes they have my seal of approving pending the adjustments to EP samples.. in fact all they need to do is to swop the bogies round so that you have the following combinations: Small ICI with diamond frame bogies with oil bearings (plated axlebox covers) Large ICI with plate frame bogies with oil bearings (ditto) No ICI letters with plate frame bogies with roller bearings (no plated cover just the bearing cap). The livery sheets are okay now that they have corrected the 5 I identified as needing alterations. Cheers Paul

Hmmmm 2 x 37s with 24 I.C.I. hoppers in O gauge.... sound fitted... Buxton driver up front giving it plenty... it does bear thinking about lol!! Any more thoughts on doing the final batch of hoppers or the John Summers wagons? Cheers Paul

The real wagons were 39 ft. long IIRC - 40 ft. max so call it 160mm scale length so just over 6 ins. Some extra will need to be factored in for the coupling bars as well adding a bit more over the buffer faces on the models of course. Cheers Paul

Don't forget the debranded Cemex versions (plus maybe aa delivered livery will need to check photos!) Cheers Paul

Nice work Dave glad you have been able to amend the models following my comments. Model 6BW as 19039 will probably raise a few more eyebrows but I do have photo evidence of the wagon with the wider spaced rust patches from times when I saw the wagon in store at Tunstead. I really should get all my film negs scanned in for all of my colour photos of the hoppers! Just a shame it didn't make it into preservation along with the other 5 and sadly all 6 got quietly chopped up on site about 3 years ago or so now :-( Cheers Paul

it was very deliberate to make the best use of the intended track-plan and to do something different than bog-standard rectangle shaped baseboards. just to be different I guess lol