Brass0four

From my personal "shake the box" level this very educational. Your excellent text and photographs make it seem comparatively simple. I think this would be a good subject for a newcomer - in my case a Great Northern or North Eastern prototype. Thank you, Tony.

- And that's not even remotely funny! Will I ever learn to button it...

Iain, Your shipyard experience would be a huge help atmosphere-wise and we all know that is what's really important; otherwise its really quite simple, visually. Imagine ships, low in the water, timber stacked high in belted batches - not unlike a modern container ship - surrounded by cranes (old style ones rusty and being dismantled by scrap merchants who've purchased them via sealed bribes, woops! I mean bids; newer cranes quite clean, but rusting quickly in the briny air) lorries and large fork-lifts; standards of timber on pallets - flat-bed lorry size. Weedy, rusty track; abandoned trucks with gardens growing out of 'em; greasy setts and cracked concrete, etc. YOU could easily paint the back-scene, model a half-hull/low-relief ship, etc. Its a Mind-Image which you, of all people, have got in spades! Sorry this is in a hurry, but I can see a classic Robinson grot-yard with balsa-clean timber, etc., Tony. Tony.

Does Iain know she's been moonlighting for you off and on over the years? (I'm under the missus' cosh for the rest of the day. I'm in severe time-debit following the last couple of days! - so I'm not being rude if I don't respond at once over anything. Sheeesh! lol )

Sorry, Shaun, but it is the perfect model. Even I'm getting excited by it but I've way too much else to do. Tony. A "thread" even! Freudian slip, Shaun.

Wonderful! A great many people will be looking forward to this! Tony.

Yes! Seven-quid a week at Tom Swans! LOL I went to James Graham for twelve-quid a week - I was head-hunted! (You're talking impoverished Tyneside in the sixties...

Sorry Iain, I didn't, back then I was cash-strapped to say the least! SLRs cost the earth, and while it was possible to take photographs with a Brownie 127(sp?) I didn't. Later I did the black-and-white developing negs-in-pot thing, but not then. I've lately been enjoying searching for Leeds Copely Hill Shed pics on flikr - with some success! - you can be sure something of the sort you need will exist amongst the many thousands of old B&W pics online. Tony.

Hi Allan, I particularly like this one. I was in the trade before I joined the Fire Service: Tom Swans in North Shields - which was also a builders merchant - and James Graham at Tyne Dock, who were purely timber, fed by ships from Russia and Scandinavia. The first was fed by road from the docks; the second: ship to crane to large fork-lifts which fed the yards of the individual, riverside merchants - there were several, south of the Tyne. Tyne Dock wharfs were a mass of deserted rail-tracks, but would have been rail before the war and in the early fifties I imagine. Otherwise - and importantly - they didn't change other than dust-chip extractors. They were used by workshops that reduced the delivered timber to the popular sizes and mouldings used in the building trade. Interestingly, Tom Swan didn't have one in the late sixties when I joined, but one was installed while I worked there. They would have become a requirement according to Health and Safety legislation in 1975. The storage buildings were exactly the same as drawn. Swans had a row of about four units this size; Graham's had acres of the ruddy things. I remember doing stock-checks in the winter, having to scrape the snow and ice from the timber ends which were marked, most often in red, with their source and type. I've never been so cold, before or since! (These were days before the now common "technical" weather clothing) A donkey-jacket was IT! I would certainly model such a unit that had abandoned, weedy rails, now serviced by road. And might very well do so... - but not yet! (I don't need anymore unfinished projects! ;-)) Tony.

You're truly honoured! Hi Andy! (slithers on belly)

Thanks.I appreciate that. Its given me a lift getting the layout on-line. I've been staring at it so long in isolation. At times you question the wisdom of it all. But talking about it, and getting so many generous responses has made me see it in a new light. As I said to freebs earlier. I'm going to put together a list of tasks and break each one down to small, doable parts, and tick 'em off when done. Even the buildings! Instead of looking at what is done and seeing everything that remains as a sizeable effort, break that down as a list and do each bit as though it is an end in itself. If that makes sense. I need to be able to go to my work-bench any time I get a moment, and pick up a piece that's waiting there. Presently I spend far too long looking at things and building them in my head, wool-gathering, when its not necessarily that much harder to actually get on with it! Thanks for the support! Tony.

I wish! It'd be good to meet you in person, Shaun. Who knows. One day perhaps. Tony.

I'll be happy to, Iain - when I've got a completed building on it! Regards, Tony.

Hells Bells, Gilbert - that could have been bloody nasty! That velocity and the mass of a golf-ball! Sheesh... (Best pack it in. Your public needs you. ;-) ) Tony.

An excellent start! And your station buildings look ace. Its good to keep your kids enjoyment. Many adult layouts become so specifically correct that they are no fun for youngsters. And if this hobby is to have any future it depends on us enthralling the kids. Mine is essentially a kid's layout. Albeit, my grandkid likes to see all four tracks running at Scalextric speeds - all whistles blowing! Its a hell of a racket! Actually, I feel better about myself after having bitten the bullet and shown what I have managed to do. Now I've started a rigorous list, breaking every task into small, doable parts. I don't dare do a thread, though. Its not just that I'd be boringly slow, but I'd stress myself keeping up with peoples' remarks, etc. I've had a brilliant day today, posting, but a double day's work tomorrow to make up for it! I really look forward to seeing how your layout develops. With your building expertise it'll be brilliant I'm certain. Tony.

Despite my exhaustive last post, I don't totally disagree, but I'd need some signal-interlocking or some such which is way into the future. After all, a real driver could hurtle past a signal check but most didn't - its a drivers eye view. At the moment I have a great many old, split-chassis locos, which can be chipped with a little work but I'd rather change the chassis - in the fullness of time. As it is, my layout can be DC or DCC. Many advocate against this but it is doable if you have an air-gap - not switches that can be switched accidently - but visually substantial plugs that can be seen to be in or out. I'm busy putting coloured tape pennants on mine. Its been like this a long time now, and I've only had one fault which was when I broke one of my own rigid rules. It was a tender-drive A3 and their motors don't chatter on DCC; they quietly fry! Smacked hands! Tony.

Thanks Stu, Exactly my thoughts. When you are operating alone they are a dead-mans' handle. It is all for personal entertainment after all. But to be fair, I've a Bachmann 03 I'm very fond of which defies physics in the way it crawls over deadfrogs in DC, but in DCC mode it stalls every time, which tells you a lot about each system. I don't use it on DCC. On my railway, pacifics haul long passenger trains and don't shunt. I don't like to see a pacific go over ANY non-straight point, including the Peco SL86/87 curved points my layout is designed around; the tender kicks out and it looks horrible - or it would if most of my pacifics weren't close-coupled so they don't go near anything other than a straight point which they do NOT change track upon anyway. The 6 road shed is a through shed. The unseen end is a flat table traverser for peco loco-lifts which I really do like. So, many of the locos *on shed* go away from the throat and through the shed to join their trains. (Their changeover engines join the coaling and turning queue, then back into the unseen portion of the through-shed) There isn't room for a huge, multi road fiddle yard (under the window end) so pacifics are changed by cassette as are passenger-train *modifiers* - kitchens, buffets, etc. The two main fast trains are ten Bachmann Mk1s which may or my not include dining but mostly do; also full brakes and other modifiers; this train virtually lives on the fast-up. The other is a train of mixed Thompson and Gresley stock (both trains are maroon BTW) which is also modified with buffets, etc; this train virtually lives on the fast-down. There are, however, up and down offstage loops that hold a 10 car Pullman, primarily. Theoretically it can go Up or Down but I can't generally be bothered so it lives on the fast Up loop where it changes with the Mk1s as required. (I know - it SHOULD go back, but it bothers me not one iota) Smaller tender-locos DO use the shed points - B1s, etc, and they travel light engine on the Down-slow till they pass under the bridge that hides the mucking-about and standing-still area, (under the window) where they join a Down train directly, or an Up-slow via cassette. Playing trains in shunting terms utilises the modestly large (in domestic terms, perhaps) marshalling yard. I don't shunt with the likes of the Bachmann 03 - it is limited in strength, anyway - and I prefer to use one of the class 25s or 37s which would probably pull across your finger if you leave it on the track; they certainly don't notice deadfrogs and they are sound-chipped. Getting back to passenger stock. I have other coaches for locals and other Slow usage, and a set of crimson and cream alternatives to the above express rakes. Otherwise, I don't want or need anymore. Perfect train carriage compilation is not of any real interest to me. I'm on a very limited budget. Now that I have my basic stable, I'll probably buy only a couple of significant engines per year. I DO want to sound-chip my Hornby B1s and some others. While there is a commuter station beside the shed, the express locos only changed at Leeds - in my Copely Hill scenario. I don't have room for Leeds so what is the point of stopping an express passenger-train in open urbanity to change its loco??? The ECML didn't do that. Goods are worked by night - as they were, primarily, on the ECML (or so I'm told, by someone who should know), - but domestic-coal, and parcels add to the non-rush-hour Slow Up/Down Its all about watching trains, mainly the last of the Steam hauled expresses. I did have a sound Deltic but I sold it 'cos it made me depressed. Tony.

Stu, (I nearly did the name thing. Its like an online geriatric ward. I'll let you into a secret so long as you don't tell a soul. The points are insulfrog and I have no trouble at all with modern locomotives. I'm badly arthritic and can't stand mucking about below the baseboard. The bus-wires are 13amp cable, fitted at the start, with four rings on the mainlines and separate feeds for the shed and marshalling yard. The only downside is that you can turn a loco off by switching a point *against it. There are exceptional areas such as the coaling stage, where sound-chipped's steam locos can be in a queue, going through there default standing procedures. Its interesting, they are all different: some coal-up at intervals; some start injectors at set times, and others - particularly the Hornby A4, emits sighs and belly rumblings. Altogether they are quite fun when used all at once; and the coaling and ash lines have their own constant feeds. There are very few points at all on the mainlines. Oh yes, one advantage of the insulfrogs is they seem to short less with metal wheeled stock. But that might be my untutored bias. At the beginning I chose insulfrog as I could foresee the predictable development of Joan's condition, and was desperate to get things up and running while I could. This was five years ago, and - sadly - I was proved right. I just wish I'd started earlier, but I was mucking about with military and fantasy-style dioramas which I'm not too bad at. ;-) *Yes, it is bad practice to use points as current switches, but its not an exhibition layout and it is trouble free running as far as I'm concerned. ie: only one loco shunts the yard and one the coaler. It had crossed my mind to change them one at a time, but now I frankly doubt I will. The KISS formula suits me. Tony One final observation: the lines from yard and shed throats are quite long. Its not a layout where locos are crossing points frequently. The smooth running up to and over the throat points where they do occur is satisfactory

Thanks, Allan, Its like a dream to me that I'd seen someone using them comparatively recently, but I can't recall where. (No surprise there!) I've one in my bits box that I've played with using an omega loop and its very positive. I think I'll do it for the freight yard and shed. Tony.

Are they GEM levers, Allan? I rather fancy them for my martialling yard. Shunting with a *sound-25, I like to play hands-on, sometimes! Tony. *25s came along in 1961 which is my up date cut-off period.

Awesome! Positively pregnant with bat-like creatures of the night. Tony.

I know what you mean and you are right of course. But Allan and Iain are very generous and like to see the work of others. If anyone took liberties loading their stuff on day in day out it would be different. But the link is good and you can see them in the context of the blog as a whole Tony.

Sorry, I meant the abbey. Go on, show a couple more with the light behind from different angles, to show the shape of it. Tony.

Thanks Shaun - Iain. Shaun you just about summed up the layouts reason d'etre. Its designed as a *watch the trains go by, ECML style*, with the shed giving an excuse to change locos, not unlike Leeds Copley Hill. I have some sound locos and you really need a continuous run for them to show their working properties IMHO. As the room is empty above the baseboards (a nightmare below!) there is a very full sound with no absorption, so a chime-whistle is really spooky with a late night echo to it. Your Goathland is by far the best I've seen. You really utilise the ready-builts with proper weathering, etc. And the Priory is awesome. You should post your blog pics of it on here! People don't always have the time to dig into everyone's blogs and layouts, and the scratch-built Priory would certainly be enjoyed on this forum Regards, Tony..

Me too. Actually, I was trying to recall freebs' name - Lee, is it? - as the senior moments come in thick and fast. Tony. ( I don't think therefore I'm not.)