john dew

Thanks Tony I wasnt sure about how separate the distribuition would be and its a big factor in the design process because of locating the loading platforms and doors . Part of the problem, of course, is that in real life the buildings mostly came first followed by the track whereas I have done the reverse in order to maximise the half moon site. Someone on another site sent me a sketch of rhe processes at Hook Norton Brewery. There is more up and down movement than I had thought. I think will have another attempt with my mock ups......dispense with the connecting corridor and create one larger building but with 3 separate sections and roof lines........back to the drawing board! I still harbour ambitions to squeeze a pit head into the layout some how......it will have to be in the background ....probably on a window sill I am watching the live updates of England v Australia as I type this.....Wont tell you the score in case you and St Edonoc want to watch the replay.......how do you guys work out which team to support..........with me its England unless they play Canada.....but that is hardly a contest Cheers John

Hi John You are absolutely correct about the dangers of tall structures at the front. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to repair my branch signals. However in this case the brewery tracks will run in front of the buildings........the main line tracks are behind but they rarely require attention......nevertheless I will make sure the buildings are easily removeable! Again I agree with you about the importance of the overall impression. You are a master of doing this with your layouts. Unfortunately I dont have your sense of artistry and symmetry, so I have to nitpick about the detail in case I put a sackhoist or vent tower in the wrong place and ruin the overall look. Its cold and wet here......you must be getting snow soon? Best wishes John

Thats the kiss of death Robin........remember what happened the last time you made a prediction like that..........nothing Cheers

I am building a brewery on my Granby layout. I doubt if knowledge of beer is confined to GWR enthusiasts so in order to appeal for information from a wider audience I thought I would start a separate thread Unfortunately, while not unfamiliar with the product itself......I have little or no idea how it is made Back in September, Doug (Chubber) of this parish sent me a really useful Brewery link : https://content.historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/brewing-industry/bhs-brewing-ind-shier.pdf/ Its well worth reading, not just for the illustrated history of the architecture and development of smaller Victorian breweries, but also for a succinct summary of the brewing process. It certainly gave me some useful ideas. My old brewery was built in 2010 using Metcalfe kits I did contemplate re-using some of the buildings but decided against it. They are very attractive models but perhaps a little small for Granby. They have become so popular that they are immediately recognisable. I wanted something a little different. Scalescene Warehouse kits are very flexible and I think I can create that sense of mass so typical of Victorian buildings: Within the confines of the site and allowing for the modular nature of Scalescene Warehouse I intend to make two principal buildings. A warehouse/bottling plant that will be three stories high and a brewhouse that will be narrower and taller with 5 stories. There will be assorted ancillary buildings….Cooperage, Boiler House, Water Tower etc but these will come later. Here is the track layout and some scale mock ups The modified Metcalfe unit, on the left, will serve as the Brewer's House, Offices and the Brewery Tap. Right now I need advice and input on where the various brewing processes would be allocated to the two principal buildings From the link I have summarised the distinct processes as follows Malting: Barley is steeped in water for 3 days. The germinated barley is turned and dried 7-14 days and then roasted All this took place in a separate building. Some breweries had a Maltings on site, others bought the malted grain in. I dont think I have enough space for a separate Malting building so the malt barley will be bought in Milling Malt Barley ….Milled and ground …... Grist Mashing Grist mixed with hot water in Mash Tun. Mixture stays in tun at controlled temperature for 2-3 hours to become wort Boiling the Wort Wort is run off, mixed with Hops and boiled in a Copper for two hours Cooling the Wort Wort is sieved (hop waste is sold) and cooled Fermentation Yeast added and fermented for three days in large open containers (wood/copper/stone ) Surplus yeast is skimmed off and sold Racking Beer run off from fermenting vessels into conditioning tanks. Finings clear any remaining yeast Finally transferred to Barrels or bottled. The brewhouses or towers were designed to to take advantage of gravity…...raw materials were hauled to the top using a sack hoist along with water pumped from a tower or reservoir. On completion of a process it was dropped down to the next floor finishing up with beer ready to be bottled/barrelled on the ground floor. And yet…..some of these processes require significant ventilation…... cooling the wort (in the middle of the cycle) according to the document was sited near the top of the tower for just that purpose I am not proposing to have highly detailed interiors but I need to have a rough idea of where the processes would likely have taken place in the configuration I am planning. This will dictate whether I have windows or vents and at what floor I locate the external corridor connecting the two buildings that will convey both product and people etc.. Right now I am guessing on the following: WAREHOUSE BREW HOUSE Floor 5 (Tower) NA Mashing Floor 4 NA Boiling the Wort Floor 3 Conditioning Corridor Cooling the Wort Floor 2 Racking/Bottling Fermentation Ground Storage and Distribuition Receiving and Milling Total guesswork I am afraid…….. I would really appreciate any advice. Best wishes from Vancouver John

Thanks for all the likes etc for the bridge....now its time to focus on the Brewery......I need some help Unfortunately, while not unfamiliar with the product itself......I have little or no idea how it is made Back in September, Doug (Chubber) of this parish sent me a really useful Brewery link : https://content.historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/brewing-industry/bhs-brewing-ind-shier.pdf/ Its well worth reading, not just for the illustrated history of the architecture and development of smaller Victorian breweries, but also for a succinct summary of the brewing process. It certainly gave me some useful ideas. My old brewery was built in 2010 using Metcalfe kits I did contemplate re-using some of the buildings but decided against it. They are very attractive models but perhaps a little small for Granby. They have become so popular that they are immediately recognisable. I wanted something a little different. Scalescene Warehouse kits are very flexible and I think I can create that sense of mass so typical of Victorian buildings: Within the confines of the site and allowing for the modular nature of Scalescene Warehouse I intend to make two principal buildings. A warehouse/bottling plant that will be three stories high and a brewhouse that will be narrower and taller with 5 stories. There will be assorted ancillary buildings….Cooperage, Boiler House, Water Tower etc but these will come later. Here is the track layout and some scale mock ups The modified Metcalfe unit, on the left, will serve as the Brewer's House, Offices and the Brewery Tap. Right now I need advice and input on where the various brewing processes would be allocated to the two principal buildings From the link I have summarised the distinct processes as follows Malting: Barley is steeped in water for 3 days. The germinated barley is turned and dried 7-14 days and then roasted All this took place in a separate building. Some breweries had a Maltings on site, others bought the malted grain in. I dont think I have enough space for a separate Malting building so the malt barley will be bought in Milling Malt Barley ….Milled and ground …... Grist Mashing Grist mixed with hot water in Mash Tun. Mixture stays in tun at controlled temperature for 2-3 hours to become wort Boiling the Wort Wort is run off, mixed with Hops and boiled in a Copper for two hours Cooling the Wort Wort is sieved (hop waste is sold) and cooled Fermentation Yeast added and fermented for three days in large open containers (wood/copper/stone ) Surplus yeast is skimmed off and sold Racking Beer run off from fermenting vessels into conditioning tanks. Finings clear any remaining yeast Finally transferred to Barrels or bottled. The brewhouses or towers were designed to to take advantage of gravity…...raw materials were hauled to the top using a sack hoist along with water pumped from a tower or reservoir. On completion of a process it was dropped down to the next floor finishing up with beer ready to be bottled/barrelled on the ground floor. And yet…..some of these processes require significant ventilation…... cooling the wort (in the middle of the cycle) according to the document was sited near the top of the tower for just that purpose I am not proposing to have highly detailed interiors but I need to have a rough idea of where the processes would likely have taken place in the configuration I am planning. This will dictate whether I have windows or vents and at what floor I locate the external corridor connecting the two buildings that will convey both product and people etc.. Right now I am guessing on the following: WAREHOUSE BREW HOUSE Floor 5 (Tower) NA Mashing Floor 4 NA Boiling the Wort Floor 3 Conditioning Corridor Cooling the Wort Floor 2 Racking/Bottling Fermentation Ground Storage and Distribuition Receiving and Milling Total guesswork I am afraid…….. I would really appreciate any advice. To obtain information from a wider audience (knowlwdge of beer is unlikely to be confined to the followers of Granby!) I intend to also post this enquiry in a separate thread.....hope that is ok with the Mods Best wishes from Vancouver John

The two sections of the footbridge have now been successfully joined together : Two smoke deflectors/baffles cobbled together from bits of plasticard were added, along with mutiple dirty washes and some weathering powder The auto coach enters the halt on a 24" radius. Accommodating the difference in platform height, the complex angles and ensuring the autocoach had adequate clearance was "interesting". Note the chamfered edge of the LH support foundation in the next shot! The slightly askew support pillar is not part of the Dapol kit. It is made up of two pillars butted together from the Ratio Canopy kit........last used in Granby I circa 1998.........waste not want not. Talking of which the equally askew keystone girder immediately above the pillar came from the Peko bridge that I butchered a few months ago Here is an overall shot that, perhaps, helps to put the footbridge into the context of the overall brewery project Next to the bridge is the first and, at present, only building of the new Brewery....... a Metcalfe unit with an additional storey added many years ago for a long since abandoned project. Some may query the presence of such an imposing footbridge on a minor branch line. The more informed will recall that the branch line had to pass through land originally owned by Danby Breweries Ltd. Colonel Sir Morgan Danby Bt. MP DSO, great grandfather of the present chairman, was a formidable negotiator.

I am really delighted that after all the fret everything is sorted......however I must question your priorities.......what about the train room? Concerned in Vancouver

Breweries must be one of the best lineside industries for a layout......so many different materials going in, lots of outgoing traffic.....unique building styles.....whats not to like? Doug (Chubber) sent a link a few posts back which has a very helpful explanation of the sequence of brewing processes. Right now I am trying to work out how and where to place them in the buildings I intend to create from the Scalescene warehouse kit. I get a tremendous amount of enjoyment from RR&Co.....modelling alone, with a largish layout, not sure how I could manage otherwise. Although I recognise that its not for everyone so I dont spend much time talking about it in Granby. I would, however, suggest that DCC is worth considering for North Cranford. I know that "only two wires required" is something of an exaggeration. Nevertheless it is undoubtedly true that any layout that is larger than a plank and with more than one loco in steam is simpler to wire and far more flexible in operation with DCC. I like to think that I helped Mr Duck of this parish to see the DCC light and you can see how much he is enjoying it on his SOS thread. Although cavalrymen are notoriously conservative (read luddite) I may well return to the fray when you are settled in to your new abode Best wishes John

Thanks Tony......sounds usefu, I will order a bottle Best wishes John

By way of introduction here are a couple of shots from the archives.......as long ago as April 2011 when I had just finished the original Brewery The halt outside the brewery for the Brymbo-Mold Autotrain which leads to the lower level storage sidings The picket fence lead down to the level crossing which gave road access to the brewery The halt suffered some collateral damage when the storage sidings were relaid a couple of months back With the storage sidings completed and the covers back on it was time to rebuild the halt and realign the entrance to the brewery. The tunnel and level crossing made quite a nice cameo but the crossing had to include the brewery siding and in consequence never looked entirely convincing as part of the entire scene. The halt was obviously in place to serve the brewery so I feel there has to be some way for passengers to cross the line safely. The halt is very much in the wings in relation to the brewery so I didnt want to invest a lot of money in a footbridge.....always assuming it could be adapted to suit the geometry of both track and siding. I decided to attempt to kit bash an inexpensive Dapol (ex Airfix) bridge The bridge looks a bit clunky right now................................... but as the next shot shows, its still very much a work in progress. Panning back a little to reveal more of the corner: Not so much a bridge too far......more a bridge too short. The other half (well three quarters actually.....I had to buy a second kit) is resting on its back on the brewery site while the glue dries Which is a convenient segue to show the completed trackwork for the new brewery The brewery entrance siding (which will also serve as a headshunt) curves round from the halt and splits into three sidings. There is a fourth kick back siding into which I can just squeeze an Engine Shed for the Hattons Barclay Shunter To end here is something rather different.......in the top right of the shot above, the sharp eyed may spot a new loco with an unusual insignia for Granby Inspired by Larry (Coachman) I have bought a black BR Oxford Dean Goods.......decided I couldnt wait for the Green GWR version to arrive so I ordered one of these guys. ........I have just put a decoder in hence the loose tender body.....Now I have to get busy with the Canadian equivalent of T cut. First impressions are excellent. It is probably one of the smoothest runners I have experienced. Both its appearance and performance sure put the pre release pages and pages of froth into perspective. More pictures when she is reliveried, weathered, coaled and crewed Best wishes from Vancouver

Hi Richard I do agree with Kevin. From my experience rail high infill over the sleepers can be a nightmare operationally......even the slightest bit over rail height will cause a pannier to stall and of course its impossible to realistically infill points One of the reasons I am relaying my brewery was poor operation resulting from cobble inlays......they looked nice mind you........before this thread started I had already determined to go sleeper high (or a tad over) with ash and pave/cobbble the space between some of the sidings for road access. I was encouraged to see exactly that in the first photo you showed. I do enjoy following your thread Best wishes John

Thanks Mark I have managed to live without a couple of Ashpans.....I guess I can survive without a couple of Fire Iron Tunnels I am intrigued how Colston Hall was released without a fire iron tunnel gate but on reflection I bought it from Buffers and it may have been a special commission with Bachmann's standard 49xx being re liveried. Cheers

Oh dear I am afraid the question of fire tunnels had completely passed me by. So I went scurrying down to the train room to check on my recently renumbered Halls...........my Hornby Railroad Halls both started life as Adderley Hall and as far as I can tell dont have a fire tunnel.....I guess your donor is a different model? However I now realise renaming a Bachmann Hall (Kinlet?) to 6941 Fillongley Hall was a mistake....no fire tunnel . To add to my confusion the Hall I didn't rename was a Bachmann original 5923 Colston Hall......it doesn't have a fire tunnel. Not a great start to the day! I need to decide whether I should pretend to be in blissful ignorance Cheers

The model has securing shackles positioned as you describe them.......I will use them to permanently secure the tank to the Warwell in the approved manner. This has to wait until my decals arrive and I have worked out what to apply. Many of the well known formations were disbanded immediately after the war only to be reformed in 1948/9 I have enjoyed researching all this stuff.....one of the charms of the hobby following leads up long forgotten by ways. I found it intriguing that the tank designers would use the term "glacis" .....a term first used to describe the slope in front of a medieval castle. Best wishes

What is the standard of proof that you are looking for Robin? The problem I found was that photos of post war Halls, unless coming out of the shop, were invariably so workstained it was impossible to determine whether they were green or black. I assume that any loco going in for a major overhaul between + - 1942 and 1944 would come out black and therefore would still be black in 1947. Not having access to overhaul data I suspect my standard of proof was set at a rather low level ! My donor was a Hornby Railroad 4901 Adderley Hall......not too expensive if the painting was a disaster.......I then looked for a 49xx built in the late 20s shedded in the North West in 1950 .......so Granby now has a black, heavily weathered, 4918 Dartington Hall shedded at Chester in 1950 I notice that the eventual naming of Halls built during the war was spread over a number of years and I wonder whether this coincided with a workshop visit and a repaint to unlined green. Pure speculation....but if correct not all Halls built during the war would be black in 1947 Good luck with the search Robin Edited to correct wording in last para

I do agree. I am following the thread with concern. I have two Granges. One performs brilliantly......it was showing its power and reliability at the week end......the other, my original purchase in 2006, is in a little box marked "NW Strip down and investigate".........a job that is rapidly moving to the top of the must do list Worried in Vancouver

It's no joking matter.......who nicked his shovel?

Love the shovel through the bunker handle.......I will be giving that a try for sure Best wishes

It's DCC Concepts who sell a similar device. I have found it very useful.

Hi John Thats very kind of you....I am glad you enjoyed the piece. Thank you for confirming my recollections of Olive drab in the early fifties. Your input was particularly welcome because when, with justifiable pride, I showed Doreen my newly over painted Oxford models her helpful response was " Very nice darling.......but shouldnt they be dirtier...camouflaged perhaps"........collapse of proud modeller. Hope you are keeping well Best wishes John

Thanks for all the likes on the last post Gentlemen. This week......breaking news.....sort of Headline from the Granby Courier March 1948: "ARMY OFFICER CAUSES CHAOS IN STATION ROAD" Apparently Lieutenant Ffanshawe-Smythe wanted to use his mobile: MIB, of this parish, knows far more about these matters than I: "IIRC the Comet was the first MBT to have the dreaded ITT "Infantry Tank Telephone" - a handset in a box at the rear of the tank. When the donkey wallop-ers, and the PBI were working in unison, and Lt Ffanshawe Smythe needed to direct a bit of firepower, he could stand behind the mobile pill box and talk to the crew and direct shots. Not too well thought out because Lt Ffanshawe-Smythe was stood right by the exhausts and the engine and had to put up with that racket whilst trying to hear what the crew reply was........" I assume the ITT box is one of the three boxes under the exhaust cowlings........there is a lot of interesting detail like that on the kit Having been extricated from Station Rd here is the Comet in a more conventional mode. Not a great shot but hopefully you can see the weathering I have applied to the deck of the Warwell Next job is to secure the tank to the Warwell with chains. I have been debating what decals to add. If the tank was ex works then just a number would suffice. In fairness, with the new paint job, it does rather look ex-works so I may have to attempt some subtle weathering if I add more signs. Oxford do a great job adding Formation, Arm of Service and Bridge discs. However each of my 5 models is signed for a different unit from different parts of the country.Two are from different Scottish Divisions, Two from Northumberland and one from 1 Corps. Infantry, Gunners and Sappers. In itself its not a big deal.....they are very small.......but I know its not right! http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_twisted.gif Doesnt show the signs but does show the camouflage......I am not at all certain that Army vehicles based in the UK were in fact camouflaged in 1948........I could live with assorted units and a consistent camouflage. But the camouflage varies with each model... I am guessing.....Italy.....D Day and NW Europe.......not sure but they are different ......and it is quite obvious. So while I had the Olive drab paint out: Doesnt bear really close examination but applying the 3' rule this definitely reflects what I remember throughout the fifties. Once I started I couldnt stop The three on the right are my other Oxfords, a 20 year old badly made Coopercraft model hides at the back. I have no idea of the provenance of the two on the left. One of my grand daughters bought them specially for me, much scratched and battered, at a church bazaar. So now, many years later, they can appear on the layout. I am a great believer in including markers on a layout that make it obvious the period it is supposed to represent. I fret about having appropriate locos in correct liveries, the balance of open wagons to vans, signage on shop fronts etc. A model of 1948 has to include a lot of military markers It is too easy to forget that between 1948 and 1960 every able bodied male between the age of 18 and 25 had to serve in the armed forces for two years ( it was 18 months initially). The Regular Army alone was over 500,000 strong.....I guess its a tenth of that today. All these men were constantly moving around the country....on leave,posting,courses.....and almost always by rail......not forgetting every summer the series of special trains taking TA units and School Cadet Corps to and from their fortnights camp I think I have convinced myself to fork out for a sheet of Formation Sign decals......43rd Welsh Infantry Div T.A. would make a nice (if slightly later) marker. Perhaps I can squeeze a TA Drill Hall in the space behind the Engine Sheds.....the new Scalescene Castle/Folly would make a nice backdrop! But not this year.......the Brewery beckons Best wishes from a sunny Vancouver.

Hi Tony I hoped my Pannier comment would get a bite! The G2a looks an awesome beast and your weathering looks brilliant..........I will send you a PM I have just enjoyed my Sunday morning cuppa watching and listening to your latest video.........your videos combined with the Coachman's continue to pile the pressure on me to at least dabble with one sound chip. I particularly enjoyed the whistle and signal sequence! Cheers John

I had her running round and round yesterday hauling my long freight (normally hauled by the 28xx). She did very well....no stops and starts just a steady 15mph trundle hauling a 6' long mixed freight over slight gradients on a curve. I may well add some weight though although there is very little space in the boiler once a Lenz Standard and harness have been shoehorned in. You do have a long memory .....it must be years ago that I was talking about the ex LNWR 0-8-0.....one of the few that got away.....You really shouldnt tempt me.....I have just been "persuaded" to order a black Dean Goods to be re-liveried! Cheers John

As always brilliant photos Larry........this batch (and your comments) are both brilliant and persuasive.........they persuaded me that I really need a Dean Goods in war time black in addition to the unlined green which is on a ship somewhere. Can you recommend the most effective way of removing the BR decals? I have previously used brake fluid.....sometimes with mixed results I am afraid. Many thanks for starting this thread Best wishes John

I am afraid that yet again I have missed my self imposed target of a weekly update. This weeks excuse?.......Granby is operated by RR&Co computor control......Version 9, a mega update was recently released. To take advantage of significant improvements in speed control and stopping accuracy locos need to be re-profiled. Profiling each loco takes 45+ minutes. Watching a loco run back and forth on the profiling track is hardly photogenic........watching paint dry is probably more interesting. With all the new branch goods trains set up and weathered it was time to put the street scene cover back in place. And reunite poor Edith Jones with her washing (see post #640 August 15th!) The original plan was to swiftly repair the Halt and press on with the new Brewery. Unfortunately, and very unusually a parcel containing the last essential turnout and a Dapol footbridge kit left the UK on Sept 5 and arrived here yesterday. http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_sad.gif So sadly the Halt remains in pieces although at least the walls are back in place. Now for news of my new tank..........not the Comet for the Warwell that featured a few posts back but a HUGE TANK I am never sure when writing posts like this how to best pitch the content. I am flattered that there are regular followers who are absolute expertss, ......there are others who either dont know what a pannier is ....or perhaps worse know but dont like them! So for the latter groups ....here is a potted history of the GWR Big tanks. They were originally designed as 2-8-0s (42xx) hauling heavy coal trains on short trips from the South Wales pits down to the coastal ports. They proved so successful that additional locos were ordered and produced with the same 2-8-0 wheel configuration but larger bunkers (52xx). As is the way of the world their introduction coincided with a down turn in demand for SW Coal. A number were put into store. Others had their bunkers extended even more (necessitating the addition of rear pony wheels) so that they could be used for more regular freight duties......hence the 2-8-2 T 72xx Followers of ANTB will know that I was contemplating buying a 42xx...... I was advised by guys whose input I value to go for a HUGE TANK....the 72xx. I am very glad that I followed their advice......the 42xx and 52xx rarely travelled out of South Wales and certainly not to my area. Whereas a number of 72xx were allocated to the Wolverhampton division of which, Granby is a part. 7233 is in the process of being re numbered to 7226 which was allocated to Oxley when converted in 1935 and was still there in 1947...... I am embarrassed to admit that until very recently I thought Oxley was in the South West rather than a suburb of Wolverhampton. I am no expert, and have never seen one in real life, but to my mind Hornby have captured the look and feel of a very powerful locomotive....8F in BR/LMS terms. Brute strength springs to mind.......definitely HUGE. The original release was part of the "Design Clever" series with a number of design defects ...moulded smoke box darts and hand rails, no brass bearings etc........most of these defects were corrected with later releases like this model.........note to Ebay bargain hunters....check the Hornby model# before bidding. One un-corrected defect was the cab back wall treatment. The window grilles look rather clumsy and the bunker door has gone AWOL I do think the missing door is rather unfortunate and detracts from the model even applying the 3' rule. It would be great if other 72xx owners/ could tell me how they have addressed the problem? I know Brassmasters provide a detailing kit (with door).....is it worth it? I am fairly pragmatic about detail .................... on Granby performance is the acid test. Initially it was disappointing. A crosshead slide bracket slipped from its mounting resulting in the crosshead coming out.....nasty clicking sound....but it was on the far side and I am deaf so it took a while for me to detect.....ie loco stopped.................hopefully thats all sorted now. I must say was surprised how much I had to adjust my normal Lenz Standard CV settings . Above 10mph the loco is silky smooth....the motion is a joy to watch. Below 10 mph it was very erratic with frequent stops. I thought I had cleaned the wheels but when I re checked there were still traces of paint and grease.....performance improved but it was still unsatisfactory crawling (stumbling rather). The test track was the often photographed main line....clean, level and much used. I finally noticed it was stalling on track joins which I guess means a barely perceptible variation in level.........so I eased the keeper plate retaining screws and now she strolls along at notch 2 (say 2mph) and I have been able to reduce CV2 from 10(!) to 5 So whats the score.........the only design defect for me is the bunker door......from a performance aspect its not unusual to have to tinker with pick ups etc,this was a bit more than normal, but it now looks promising........like Len used to in Strictly.......I would give it a.......SEVEN (no dance off though) Next post....Weathering and how big a load can she haul? Regards from Vancouver Edited to correct Photo placement