john dew

Hi James Hadnt realised you had started a layout thread......you have a new follower. It would be easier for me to comment on the block structure if you could post a shot of the proposed TC switchboard. Ideally the switchboard(s) should be set up before you lay track. I use the plural because with a layout of that size I imagine you would have at least three switchboards I know that you will not be operating TC for some time and it makes sense to phase expenditure. However its my understanding that the demo version time constraints only apply when you are hooked up to the layout and actually operating. So it should be possible to set up the station switchboard, for instance, using the demo version. Not sure what your plans are in regard to profiling? Each loco has to be profiled......takes about 45 minutes and its akin to watching paint dry. You need three straight blocks....no curves no turnouts. My start and finish blocks are each 30" long and the centre profiling block is 72". Its a separate set up mounted below the layout. If you can I would suggest you do something similar......far more efficient than profiling on the layout. Best wishes John

Tonys Trains in the USA https://tonystrains.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=+psx1 John

No worries! I have the same set up as Richard with 4 Psx 1s. Best investment ever.......must have saved me a fortune over the years. cheers John

Right I am back.......apparently if you exceed the photo download limit you have to exit and then re enter the thread. I left you with the Station Pilot Collett 2259 pushing two Milk tankers to join the recently arrived Milk train in Platform 5 This was one of the more difficult schedules to accomplish both physically and getting TC to recognise what was happening. The pilot has to push the two tankers into contact and then continue pushing...but now its the entire train. It then has to stop so the loco tender coupling is just short of the magnet. A short distance move back and forward couples the new tankers with the train and at the same time opens the pilots tender coupling When completed the next schedule starts.......... the pilot moves forward leaving the train in P5 The pilot moves over the xover and on to the Up line before reversing into Bay Platform 1 and its stabling point near Bronwen's washing.....she will be thrilled As the pilot enters the Up Main block this action starts the schedule that will bring Dartington Hall from Platform 6 Over the Xover to the Down Main Where it reverses to couple with the milk train in P5 ready to depart for Hooton Thats 36 schedules from when the tankers were picked up from the dairy... some weeks ago Two more and we are done! Regards from Vancouver John

I had hoped that Andy would have got the on line member registration sorted for this post. It would have been neat to have a gold top beside a post about milk (and I dont mind bling) More importantly I wouldnt have had to split the post into two again! In contrast to the last post......lots of pictures ( too many apparently!) ...... not too many words I hope The Down Milk Train from Shrewsbury headed by 6832 Brockton Grange approaches Granby Viaduct Note the tail lamp......a stopped clock is right twice a day.......bit like that with my lamps No I havent got the photos mixed.....this is 4918 Dartington Hall in GWR Wartime livery preparing to leave Granby Shed to relieve Brockton Grange. The sequence of schedules to get 4918 on to the exit road via the turntable is triggered at the same time as the Milk Train leaves the storage yard The Grange crawls to a halt, just over the magnet, on Platform 5 . In the background on Platform 6 you can see the relief Hall in readiness The Grange uncouples, moves forward to clear the xover points and then reverses back on a schedule that will take her direct to the Shed reception. Once there, the suite of schedules, seen on the video, will take her through the ash pit, coaling stage, turntable and finally to her home on Shed #4. I must confess that the shot above was staged so I that could show both locos. In reality the relief loco stops out of sight behind the station roof thus allowing adequate clearance for the relieved loco................guess how I worked that out? As the Grange exits the Down Main block in front of the xover, the schedule to bring the Pilot and tankers from the Up Siding is started To be continued shortly.............................................

I do agree that getting the correct block structure is the foundation for successful automatic operation. I am not sure you need two blocks per platform. Two separate detectors per platform block can help although with RR&Co you really only need one. With RR&Co the rough rule of thumb is that a block should be at least as long as the longest train that will occupy it. Its not always possible but good to bear in mind. Trains overhanging into the preceding block can be dealt with but its not ideal. RR&Co has a feature called shifted stop and brake markers..........you specify the distance from entering the block that you want the train to stop. Lets say the block length is 48" and you want the train to stop at a signal (or over an uncoupling magnet) 6" from the end of the block. So you set up a stop marker with a distance of 42"...........the train will stop automatically 42" after entering the block. Rather than have it halt abruptly you can set up an associated brake marker that will activate 30" after it has entered the block, it will then, for the next 12", progressively slow from the block entry speed to stop at the 42" marker. Correctly profiled locos will do this consistently to within 1". You can set up multiple stop markers in a block specifying which schedule or trains will activate them and under what conditions.....its a very powerful feature.

For block detection I use Lenz LB101 occupancy detectors connected to Lenz LR 101 decoders. Perhaps a bit old fashioned but very robust and ultra reliable. To my regret I dont have lighting...... your system sounds very cool. I had a quick skim through your layout thread, will go back later and spend some more time......you have built some amazing buildings. I was very impressed with the detail and working semaphores as well! Cheers John

Hi Colin Thank you......good to hear from you The question stumped me...I had to go down to the train room to check! Its been there a while so its acquired a certain patina. It started off with Woodland Scenics 2mm ash ballast.....then when I relaid the parcels siding some of the new ballast drifted on to it ...I painted over thatbut you can still see some.....there is a very very light touch of grass and the dark spot is where I had a sign ....repositioned it and filled in the hole! Felt a bit like an archaeological dig recalling different years of modelling! Cheers John

Hi Luke Thank you ......glad you like it. You have asked a very good question .......I hope this isnt too convoluted a response. When you first put a loco and or wagon on the track you have to tell TC which block you have put it in and which way it is facing. If the loco and one or more wagons are put in the block TC needs to know in what order. They then become a train set and TC will track them as such Provided, thereafter, they move under TC control no further manual intervention is required. As part of the commands written into an uncoupling schedule TC will separate the selected wagon from the train set and it will remain in the siding both physically and virtually when the rest of the train moves out under control of the next schedule. The key of course is to make sure that the computor records always reflect what is physically on the layout or vice versa. The primary cause of “unexpected results” on Granby is probably me taking a loco off to clean the wheels and putting it back facing the opposite way......computor systems are very literal......and blind....they dont see buffer stops . One of the attractions of TC is to run a number of trains automatically while at the same time manually shunting the branch yard.......I enjoy doing this but have to make sure at the finish that the train finishes in the same order as when it started.......there are workarounds so the train composition physically changes without irritating TC Hope this helps Cheers John

Thought of that but Andy might take my badge away

Likewise........I assume that there will be an announcement when the on line facilty is available? RMWeb is an amazing resource and has provided me with hours of entertainment. Happy to help support it. Not sure what I will do with the exhibition ticket though. Regards from Vancouver

Well I had intended to conclude the Milk saga with this post .........sadly it is not to be Yesterday, while taking the photos in some sort of logical sequence, higher echelons intervened. I was requested to carry out an urgent and top priority mission........in the garden . One has not been married for 56 years (yes ...fifty six) without establishing what lifes true priorities are. By the time I returned to the train room......some hours later.......the late afternoon sun was streaming through the window, making it impossible to complete shooting the sequence until today. So here is something a little different albeit with some connection to the Milk saga. A very simplistic and hopefully readable explanation of how these automated routines are constructed. Granby is a DCC layout. The locos all have decoders fitted and the turnouts are all connected to DCC decoders. The track is separated into blocks. The power feed from the DCC supply is fed to each block through an occupancy detection unit connected to the DCC information net. With my Lenz DCC throttle I can, and do, operate locos, throw turnouts and check the occupancy of blocks.........but the real power of this set up is only revealed when it is hooked up to RR&Co Train Controller (TC) Here is a screen shot of the TC main block diagram (there are separate diagrams for the storage yard and engine shed) TC automatically controls the movements of a train between two or more connected blocks. This movement is called a schedule. The track connecting the blocks including any turnouts is called a route. Once a schedule is started.....mouse click,timetable,triggered command......TC controls the train to the destination block. Reserving a designated number of blocks ahead of the train, throwing the turnouts, temporarily halting a train if the block ahead is not available. As an example: the highlighted blocks in the diagram above is Schedule 08.50 B Set Cynwyd - Granby P3. This was the schedule that was part of the sequence that got the two full milk tankers to Granby. Here it is with the other blocks removed Cynwyd, the bottom block, is coloured pink to indicate that it is occupied. You may just be able to see the image within the block. It shows the separate components of the train.....Pannier 6757 / BSet / Two Tankers. As the train proceeds on its journey each block will, in turn, colour pink and display the image. When it reaches its destination at Granby, and the composition of the train changes, the displayed image within the block will reflect this. Throughout every schedule there are opportunities to initiate other actions/commands.......signals,turnouts, block reservation and perhaps most importantly start other schedules. These opportunities arise at the start and finish of the schedule and also at the entry, exit or release of each block in the schedule. As an example, the finish operations of the Cynwyd-Granby schedule included returning some turnouts on the route to "normal" , physically shuffling the loco to uncouple and finally starting the schedule that enabled the pilot to uncouple the two tankers. In summary, these complex routines are actually a series of individual schedules each linked to the next in what appears to be a seamless fashion. So far its taken 20 such schedules to get the tankers from the dairy to wait in Granby's head shunt for the Milk train. The entire routine from start to the finish (which I hope to write about tomorrow.....rain is forecast) was started by one mouse click (or timetable entry) ......the reverse of the schedule shown above ......Schedule 08.10 Granby - Cynwyd B Set. For those who waded through all that..... here are a few leftovers from last weeks post......experiments with an Iphone Northern grit.......despite everything the washing is still hung out to dry....probably accompanied by a few choice words from Bronwen to Gareth Williams the fireman on 2259. Regards from Vancouver.....where it is indeed raining! John

Morning Phil Glad to see they re-opened the gates for you

Glad to help......what was the railtec item# I cant find it?

Railtec offer custom GWR Toad depot branding for about £2.50.... I already have a set of Granby transfers I will check how they look size wise and let you know Cheers

B****r! I should have waited.....I am just working out how to re brand my Birmingham set....

Apologies for the interruption...........hopefully normal service will be resumed I left you, no doubt on the edge of your seats, wondering if 5773 will be able to couple up with the coaches in time for the return journey Once coupled 5773 pulls them back into the Bay carriage siding Releasing 6757 to the loco siding All the participants are crowded into this shot. Tankers and Pilot in the Head Shunt, B Set in the carriage siding and the released loco heading towards the coal stage 5773 can now return to P3, with the coaches, ready for the return trip. For those interested we are now at 20 schedules for this routine with more to come. Regards from Vancouver where Spring is now with us.

Continuing the Milk Train saga. Lots of photos and hopefully not too much text. You may recall that the first stage consisted of transporting two full tankers, as tail traffic, on the regular passenger service from Cynwyd to Granby. Stage 2 involves detaching the tankers from the train and moving them to a siding to await the arrival of the Milk train from Shrewsbury. In addition the normal loco exchange still has to take place so the passenger train is ready for its return journey. Two pannier tanks are allocated to the passenger service. Here we see both of them 6757 approaches Granby hauling the train plus tankers. The relief loco, 5773, awaits its turn in the loco siding. The station pilot, Collet Goods 2259 will be detaching the tankers Once the passengers have left, the incoming loco 6757 uncouples and moves clear of the train At the other end 2259 backs on to the train The loco pushes the carriages and tankers back about 5" so the coupling between the coach and tanker stops over a second magnet. Having been pushed back this coupling will remain open while over the magnet. When 2259 initially makes contact with the tankers the loco generally pushes the train back on the open horns of the couplers.Completing the coupling is now much easier since RR&Co introduced a nifty feature called "Limited Distance Move". In the commands at the finish of this schedule the loco moves backwards at the slowest possible speed (Decoder step 1: 2 mph) for 0.25 " and then forwards at the same speed for 0.5".......job done! An elegant and effective Kadee shuffle. 2259 and the tankers move off, leaving the coaches in the bay 2259 moves out briefly on to the main line before entering the Up Head Shunt. Simultaneously the relief loco ,5773, leaves the coal stage and now waits for the entry to P3 to be released 2259 and the tankers will now wait in the Head Shunt for the Down Milk Train to arrive It only remains for the incoming loco 6757 to be released and the the relief loco 5773 coupled to the coaches ready for the return to Cynwyd................but not this post I have exceeded my photo limit.......to be continued very shortly

Ah I didnt know that....I lead such a sheltered life with Lenz! But would you agree that the performance described by the OP is consistent with that type of speed lurch?

I suggest getting the guy who fitted them to identify the chip manufacturer(s) for you......not an unreasonable request! Alternatively if you can read Cvs on your layout you can do it yourself......Cv 8 shows the Manufacturers ID#......Lenz is 99,TCS is 153 for example Some TCS decoders and early DCC Concepts decoders are known to have a very noticeable speed lurch around the mid point of the speed curve. .......which is why I and others eventually replaced them....I standardised on Lenz (usual disclaimer)

Thanks for all the buttons on the last post guys. Slight diversion this week....... I am afraid this will be old news to many but I cannot resist bragging about these three stunning Hornby non corridor coaches that arrived last week It can take up to six weeks for stuff to arrive from the Uk but on this occasion it took less than a fortnight......what a splendid surprise Here is the right hand Third/Brake By way of contrast here is part of one of my twenty year old B Sets I got this coach through a swap with John Flann so it will stay in service......but not too close to the new ones. Here is the 1st/3rd compo This shot captures the distinctive bow end to the coaches. The coaches were designed as 4 car sets specifically for high density suburban centres....London, Birmingham, Bristol (?) and, happily for me, Chester. I am still unsure how they were described.....to confuse matters the Birmingham Division called them B Sets whereas the rest of the world used B Set to describe the 2 car set seen on many branches.....including Granby. To avoid confusion, once the second 3rd Brake arrives, I think I will describe my new coaches as a D Set. Like the Collett Bow End Corridor coaches they are handed.....that is to say a 4 car set is made up of a Left Hand Brake 3rd, LH 3rd/1st ,a RH 1st/3rd and RH 3rd Brake. Handing corridor coaches is understandable as all the corridors are lined up on the same side......although in fairness not all stations had platforms on the appropriate side! None of the experts have come up with a clear cut rationale as to why the GWR adopted it for these non corridor sets.....although batteries are now all on the same side for ease of maintenance. When I lined mine up I realised that by handing, the firsts in the two compos become adjacent. So the compartments on the train are divided into three distinct class blocks. Commutors with a 1st class ticket would learn to wait in the middle of the platform and their choice of 8 compartments would be all together The detail on each coach is brilliant Look at the ventilators......roof hand rails and clips for destination boards.......destination boards are supplied......but when would they be used on a suburban commutor service I wonder. anyone seen any photographs with boards in use? Super door and window detail........on the prototype the "Smoking" signs were, I believe, originally etched and subsequently the same effect was achieved with a semi transparent label......the effect is very Art Deco and looks great on the model. The non smoking signs are less accurate.......White lettering on a red triangle was a BR innovation. The GWR non smoking signs were Red lettering on a white background. Not that I am losing too much sleep about it, particularly because neither I or anyone else noticed the same error on the critically acclaimed corridor coaches that have been around now for almost three years! To finish here is the end view of the third/brake I think Railtec do coach branding transfers so thats a job for the future. Of greater urgency is the need to weather the rooves. I always get super nervous about painting over the pristine roof of a brand new and somewhat expensive coach. However I cannot imagine anything less realistic than an immaculate, unsullied white roof in 1947 Now I just need the other Brake to make up the set and hopefully in the summer a Large Prairie to haul them. The Six nations rugby is over for another year. I have just and only just got over the shock/horror of the England v Scotland game! It should have come with a health warning. Now I look forward with dread and trepidation to the World Cup in October Two weeks ago I was again clearing the drive of yet another snow fall and the temperature was constantly hovering around 0o C .....now we have clear blue skies and lots of sun 20o C (70o F +_)............ and set to continue Once I am excused from the garden (there is a downside to most things!) its back to the Milk Train

I was told that some retailers have now received them. Like you...I cant wait Regards

I guess its ok. I sent John (St Enodoc) a PM earlier advising him not to look at the thread until he had watched his recordings As for me........I am speechless.

I thought the plan was no spoilers?

I have been slowly developing a series of schedules where milk from MacPeter's Dairy in Cynwyd is transported to Granby Junction. Milk is collected daily from local farms by road and rail, in tankers and churns. Once processed it is loaded into rail tankers which are moved to Granby to be attached to the afternoon milk train from Shrewsbury to Birkenhead A two car B Set and 57xx 0-6-0T provide a regular passenger service between Cynwyd and Granby Junction. Usually, once the passengers have left the train, the loco uncouples and runs around the train before heading back to Granby. The timing for the 1.05 pm is a bit different. After uncoupling, instead of running round, the loco moves through the goods yard to the Dairy Where it couples with two full tankers Heads back through the goods yard On to the relief loop, passing the waiting carriages at the platform Before continuing, let me apologise for the quality of the next two shots. We are the proud, and somewhat confused, owners of a new smart(?) all singing/dancing tv. In prototypical GWR fashion the old tv has cascaded down to the train room where it now serves as a monster monitor for the computor. Great for RR&Co.....less so for photography. No room for a tripod, hand held and heavy cropping. Time to start using the phone and gorilla stand I think. Back to the story.....6757 backs into the bay and uncouples the tankers The loco moves from the bay to the running line and backs on to the carriages. Once coupled it edges forward and then reverses into the bay and couples up with the tankers The bay platform will not accommodate two carriages and two tankers.Once coupled, the train moves out of the bay and reverses on to the main platform so that passengers can join the train. This may seem unnecessarily complex ...there are actually 11 separate movements (RR& Co schedules) to get to this point. However, I believe it was general practice for the tankers to be attached to the tail of a passenger train rather than interposed between loco and carriages.....in any event , as you will shortly see, I need the tankers to be at the rear when they arrive at Granby. I did think about eliminating 2 schedules by letting the passengers board just the rear (non corridor) carriage in the bay but felt the longer sequence was more prototypical . I would really welcome any comments regarding the realism of this sequence 40 minutes after leaving Cynwyd the train approaches Granby Entering , as usual, Bay Platform 3 I see the guard forgot to shift the rear lamp......anyone would think it was glued on! Next week the Milk train arrives..........locos are relieved and the tankers attached Meantime the snow is slowly clearing and I am looking forward to the last week end of the Six Nations ____________________ John Granby III Lenz DCC ,RR&Co Gold V9.0 A4 Windows 10