Martin S-C

What I meant to suggest was that signage was very minimalist, not that it was non-existent. If one was to compare the signage on Little Muddle to that on Pendon I think my point would get across.

I have no connection to this seller and it isn't me! Some fair prices here though... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-0-4-0-Locomotives-Huge-Selection-Flat-Postage-Rate/223526576079?hash=item340b38dfcf:m:mJ4Ktw2d4P1eFPlYBVw32ow&var=522278085864

That sounds just like my shed foreman. Are they related?

I have a left hand curved turnout on order, hopefully it should be here later this week. The straight turnout isn't a biggie as it lets the curve of the main line continue, but the curved turnout does two things - the left hand (main line) curve is less tight and the curved nature of it brings the colliery entrance that little bit to the left which will be helpful for other reasons.

Hi Cameron Originally it was just going to be a single siding to the quarry here, the idea of a (representation of) a bank of lime kilns came much later. Possibly too late really. I bought a couple of cheapo Dapol pitched roof quicklime wagons on e-Bay and then needed a reason to have them. Duh. However lime burning was a thing in the Forest for many decades, The idea was always to move the graded crushed limestone from the quarry to the kilns via a (non-working) NG track (maybe Z gauge) with tubs of stone pushed by hand. As you noted, its only a scale couple of hundred yards. The kilns would be owned and operated by the quarry and it appears that in Victorian times such an arrangement was fairly common because the quicklime was distributed only locally; it made economic sense to manufacture it near where it was quarried. The quarry will generate 3 traffics 1) graded crushed stone moved by NG tubs to the nearby kilns. 2) graded crushed stone sent either off scene or to other stations for use as roadstone, wall-building and other constructional uses or general aggregate and 3) dressed stone which will be sent as cut blocks to the Forest Stone Co. plant at Puddlebrook. The kilns will generate quicklime which goes either off-scene or to another station on the line for agricultural or chemical use. The kickback siding was the problem, it made access awkward. Yesterday I altered the lime kiln siding so it has direct access off the shunting loop. The siding is now a lot shorter but can hold three cottage tops and will have space for a low relief kiln model atop a loading bank. The problem is the look of the Catspaw scene was superior with the kickback. The direct access siding unbalances the scene unfortunately. I am still ruminating on how best to resolve the issue. Other work done yesterday involved a lot of stuff not worth showing photos of because it was wiring. We worked out a design for a pair of micro switches to cut off power to the Puddlebrook station board so that power there is killed when the access flap is raised. Track-laying at Puddlebrook was completed; the arrival of a Y point to let us lay the Forest Stone Co. workshop sidings. Catspaw was mostly wired up. I spent a while pondering the access trackwork to the colliery. I've decided to fit in a short headshunt off the stabling road. The stabling siding is over 72" long and will hold up to 24 empty wagons. The washery and screens will be worked by shunting rakes of four wagons at a time. Train limits on the layout are eight wagons, so half a train can be shunted at a time. Here's a photo of a J94 with four 21 ton hoppers which I am using in my 1959 layout rolling stock set. All are bigger than my 1919 vehicles hence their use in headshunt length testing. If this fits, a Peckett and four twelve tonners will easily go in. The last two pics show some loose pointwork checking for the colliery entry. I'm unsure whether to use a left-hand straight turnout or a curved one. The double slip allows access direct to the stabling road plus its shunting neck and the next siding to the right will be for brake vans.

I saw what you did there. I just assumed it was lead due to the weight. I am not sure what metal is that dense and not toxic.

Liquid Gravity is tiny lead shot - very tiny, about 0.3mm dia. Very useful for squeezing extra weight into the underframes of wagons, etc. You pour it in loose then drop some superglue on.

I have used Scratch myself a few times. Wonderful stuff. I'm surprised someone hasn't marketed it commercially. I think I shall avail myself of one of those Peco inspection pit sets, they look the business.

Welcome to Fictional Light Railway Wonderland where trains are short, personalities quirky and larger than life, names and places are whimsical and imagination soon grows an empire far greater than your ability to model it!

I did litter my mini-rant with several "generallys", "oftens" and "in some cases". You will always find exceptions to what was customary practice but they will be exceptions and I think its better of we model what was the norm, rather than the exception. I see that from its backscene Little Muddle is suggested as quite a large town and the larger the community, the less socially close knit parts would be. Therefore more signage would appear, especially if there were actual shopping and business districts. Pendon Parva depicts a small village and my comments really apply to these smaller settlements.

The weathering on Woolwinder, is I think, the finest work Tim has done. He has made the engine look both dirty and clean at the same time, with a soot and ash coating on the upper boiler yet an oily sheen along its lower half. A wiped-clean cab and tender side yet track dust and dirt coating the area just above footplate height. The wheels and motion are an overall drab, with none of the "artsy" highlights so many other modellers, myself included, would be tempted to add. Simply superb work.

*nods sagely* Don't buy from him unless you are rich and the price doesn't matter! In fairness I have had one or two fair bargains from him but generally he is overpriced.

I am sorry about this long rambling post but I wanted to get this off my chest. I hope some of it is a little helpful to someone. It seems churlish and even downright rude to be critical of this superb model but I too think some of the shop signs could use a little toning down. The fonts used look modern as do some of the signage layouts and (if we were to get colour close-ups) possibly some of the colours used, I would hazard a guess. We've had a fair bit of discussion here about pre-WWII retail signage and you really can't do better than get along to Pendon. There, in the village scene, it is actually quite hard to see, in some cases, which are the pubs, the shops, the workshops and the houses. Sometimes you can only tell because of the activity outside - men sat on benches drinking (never women!), people shoeing horses or taking bits off a piece of farm machinery, or two ladies with wicker baskets over their arms chatting. The activity outside informs you of what business is conducted inside. After WWII and especially after rationing and austerity ended and people began to have disposable income as well as to travel more, shop and innkeepers began to find a need to advertise their presence because people from outside the immediate locality passing through became more common. In some instances this was simple practicality because travelers needed to be able to identify a roadside workshop to obtain petrol for their car, or have it repaired, and needed to identify inns and hotels in order to find a stopping place for the night. Remember the 50s and 60s really blossomed as the age of guide and travel books and people relied on a travel book to find places to stop, eat and shop. Without guide books in some cases, some shops were almost invisible. In addition to the post 40s social changes, prior to WWII in a small community everyone knew everyone else and John the Grocer or Bill the Innkeeper didn't need to advertise their presence because everyone knew John and Bill, and their parents, their grandparents and their children and they knew what they sold and where their shop was. Travelers were not so common and if a stranger did arrive in town it was easy to ask a pedestrian where a baker, butcher or hotel was because everyone knew. Retail outlets were within communities and catered for those communities. Passing traffic was a bonus and wasn't needed to maintain the business because profit wasn't its purpose, unlike today. It was someone's life and they'd do it until their children took over the shop and if the situation became financially difficult, it was often a region-wide problem and people helped each other out. A lot of exchange didn't involve money, remember. We have totally lost this community knowledge today and sometimes its even hard to find a pedestrian to ask because everyone is in a car, even when popping down to the shop. What this random spewing of nostalgia is meant to convey is that shops pre-WWII should really have almost no signage at all, and retail outlets like barbers simply didn't exist in some smaller communities because people either cut their own hair, or their wife cut their husbands and kids hair, or someone skilled in hair-cutting would come round to your house and cut it, in exchange for some bartered goods like a few slices of bacon or a dozen eggs, that kind of thing. Sorry for what has become a kind of social history mini-rant. I'll go back to my armchair and cup of cocoa now.

Hm. Or you can have them both ways as long as the outer ones are placed longitudinally stopping the inner ones from rolling away.

I have not tried 3D printing but would be tempted to print only the basic body shape and source small items like buffers, domes, chimneys and whatnot from brass or white metal commercial parts. It all adds weight, which is always a good thing and the detail in cast buffers is better.

The thing is practically a family heirloom. I was 5 when my dad bought a second hand Tri-Ang trainset for me and my older brother which I remember had a plunger pick-up Princess loco in black and one of those 0-4-0 dockside diesel shunters that could pull absolutely every coach and wagon we owned. I was six when he bought Nellie for my birthday, which would be 1965, so I'm a little reluctant to hack it to pieces. The motor is almost certainly knackered as its not turned a wheel since the 1980s and the treads and flanges are too coarse now. I may just keep it as a museum piece, or save the chassis and motor, setting them aside and get a new chassis and modify the body. It would be nice to have the first ever loco I owned individually working again, even if it is only parts of the plastic body.

The loco shed base piece with the inspection pit is a very nice bit of kit. Is it a commercial product?

I hope you don't mind, Gilbert, if I remark that the Deltic needs some gubbins on its buffer beam. I think one of the attractions of the front ends of diesels is the crazy mass of spaghetti they wear "below the belt".

That scenery is very green and lush. You can tell it's not Norfolk!

Fantastic photos. I have one of these to build from the old K's Milestones kit and these images are a real inspiration. Did this design have the shortest wheelbase 4-wheel front bogie of any standard gauge loco?

And cheaper than a Dremel! Colin - well spotted. I regret to say that my plan was a little ambitious in some areas with baseboard reach an issue at several locations - the colliery is the biggest problem as that will very much be a hands-on affair and I may have to build a small raised platform for the operator of that end of the layout to stand on, or at the very least provide a step stool. A raised platform will fit in here neatly as its the end of the main operating well beyond the doorway with no-one else needing access. I am however always concerned about raised areas to stand on because it'll be sod's law the person will forget and step backwards off it. I'm still chewing this over. Tracks at the two main termini will also be slewed a little closer to the baseboard edge because in each case reaching to uncouple a loco that draws a train into the bay platform could be an issue, plus at Green Soudley the canalside wharf road is even further away still. I am considering uncouplers between the rails at these locations to save on reaching across. The carriage sheds and C&W workshops are less of an issue because really its a set of storage sidings cunningly disguised as a scenic feature. I can haul rakes of stock in and out of them via the loco turning triangle without much problem, select the vehicles needed and shunt the rest back. There won't be any great need to access couplings back there and those I do need to get at the most will be the freight vehicles which are the front two roads. I'm also now dubious about fitting 4 sidings back there. The pair of wagon sidings may have to be reduced to a single one. Everything fits on paper but we all know that doesn't mean it will work or look right in the flesh. The carriage shed building itself will be one of those corrugated tin affairs held up on exposed legs without sides, or only partial sides, I haven't decided yet on a pitched roof or a round roof as at Watlington but the roof will also be removable. The open sides, as well as being prototypical to allow air to circulate and dry out wet vehicles also allow the operator to see which coach rakes are in there. I shall also try and stable the rakes an inch or two apart so they don't all couple up. I am having second thoughts about the kickback siding from the quarry at Catspaw. Now its laid it cramps the look of this area and makes the baseboard look narrower. Accessing it from the quarry will be a pain, so I'm having a ponder about that one. So much for all that careful planning and I do recall a few people mentioned the plan was too crowded.

A little too distant from Gloucestershire for me to use it as an example, sadly. Neil has been busy with other business in the last few days so track-laying being such a doddle I've laid Catspaw Halt out, drilling holes for point motors but not adding the droppers yet. In a previous life (heck, it seems so long ago now but must have been the early 1990s that I last worked in 4mm scale) I worked with Peco code 100 which was very forgiving but the flimsiness of code 75 was brought home to me today as I tried to cut it with a razor saw (I really ought to invest in a Dremel) and attempted to push fishplates on. Quite the chore, doing that. Got the basic track layout finished however and even tested the passing loop length with the branch passenger train, to discover there's loads of room. Looking west. Farthest siding is the wood distillation works, middle right is the lime kilns and near right the quarry. The timber platform of the halt will be in the middle of the left hand loop, where there's a wider bit of board on the left. Passenger trains won't pass here. Freight will. A more distant view showing the wibbly-wobbly quarry siding which I laid deliberately badly. Honest. Quarry on the left, branch line going into a tunnel and up the grade to Coggles Causeway in the centre, main line grade up to Green Soudley on the right. More distant view. Branch train at the platform. Sort of. Loco needs a repaint. I think it'll turn yellow ochre as well eventually, although I'm tempted for a GER blue for the WELR locos as this will match nicely the crimson lake coaches. Loads of space in the passing loop. All branch locos will face in the up direction to Snarling Junction due to the gradients which are severe and all drop down to the terminus. Track pins are temporary!

Given that I am setting a scene in 1919 my use of slotted posts and disc+crossbars is really off in the realms of fantasy. You might argue that there would be a complete hiatus on infrastructure modernisation after 1914 but in fact the Forest of Dean saw a good deal of activity by the Ministry of Supply during the First and Second wars using various locations for ammunition storage and in other locations around the country trackwork and signalling was improved to cope with wartime traffic, so all in all its a bit of a Rule 1 thing with my layout I am afraid. I really cannot justify signalling arrangements and some very quirky 1850s rolling stock over and over without the mask slipping. I do have a soft spot for disc+crossbars though and will probably go for these mixed in with slotted posts. Maybe the showcase main terminus will have had money spent on it and have "proper" semaphores. Then again I come across nice models at shows like this USA logging line with a ball and chain signal and I start to want one of them too...

I'd like to use some kit parts if I can find some. Maybe MSL do slotted posts? I need to investigate. I agree though, this is an opportunity to go quirky and unique and that sort of thing always appeals.

My understanding is that disc signals were operated by a rotating rod that turned through 90deg inside the structure of the post (or secured to it by brackets) so I am wondering how one would mechanically work a doll on one of these. I like your signals Annie. I assume the lamp rotates through 90deg as well, but as I see no shade on the lens, wouldn't a loco crew still see a red light at night? Here's the disc signal on Brain's tramway Forest of Dean I mentioned before that existed into the 1930s It was worked from a signal box (or rather not worked because the crossing it protected was out of use, but the linkages were present as the photograph shows the wire). Generally speaking, Lez, yes they were bobby-operated when first installed but any that did still exist by the time of my model would have been controlled from a signal box as part of the block working. Its highly doubtful if any were still in use controlling passenger trains by the time of the Great War as the one above protected a horse-drawn tramway but I can dream. Here is a tantalizing undated photo of Penzance which, judging from the wagons in the goods shed, is in broad gauge days. It appears to show a single post with two crossbars of large and small dimensions one above the other and above them two discs, again of different diameter, small above large. Lacking more information one can only surmise its function and how it was operated. Part way down the post appears to be a lamp and below that a board of some kind (route indicator? shunt signal?), function unknown. Part of the superb collection of engineering models of early signals at the NRM ,York, in their warehouse. To left and right are cut-out discs that revolve (not rotate) 90deg either way within the plane of the disc itself and presumably indicated left and right diverging routes, horizontal being "danger". I haven't determined why the danger indication has the cut-outs at the bottom in the left-hand example and at the top on the right hand one. Note pairs of lamps lower down with lenses on two adjacent faces which would have shown red and white aspects. The left hand model shows what looks like a "bobby" operated crank handle near the base. The right hand information card shows a date of 1840. The centre signal is another rotating signal, this time a half-disc, of the Grand Junction Railway, 1848, showing a red light when the board is face-on to an approaching train and white when turned away. More NRM models. Another Grand Junction 1838 half-disc at left. Conventional disc and cross bar second from left. Label declares its a "Liverpool and Manchester Railway and Scottish type, 1840". Note that since these are models the operating handles of these are quite simple so I'm unsure if they replicate the mechanism of the prototype. "Flag" signal is third from left, annotated "Semaphore, GWR, c.1843". The flag faces the train for danger and is turned parallel to the track for Clear. It doesn't raise and lower. And at far right the "flapping double paddle" affair similar to yours Annie, though this model carries no lamp. Unfortunately the model has its actuating rods facing away from the viewing side of the display case, or they're within the post. At left a conventional signal that I wasn't interested in photographing, next to it another (1846) double paddle or double disc signal showing the rear with bracing boards across the horizontals of the discs and the counterweight arm to return the signal to danger in the event of a wire breaking. Actuating rods are either not shown or are inside the post. On the right a two-way facing slotted post signal with a windlass and handle for presumably lowering the lamp. I can't make out any coloured spectacles on the far side relevant to the arm facing away. The labels indicate that almost all the models were built c.1975 and possibly came from a single person's collection.