Martin S-C

Plan Seven_B: a small adjustment to the right hand curve buying me a bit more wider radius by twisting the colliery exit a few degrees. Also buys me some more scenic room at the front for the cost of some between main and branch at the back. I could even have a modular scenic board here to be changed over as moods take me (farmyard, fields, woods, village, industry...) I am thinking now that if the continuous run comes into the station on platform 1 that would work better. On this side of the through line we have pretty much all the freight shunting except for loco coal and branch freights and on the further side almost all the shunting required to swap over train engines. I could introduce a double slip at the red marked position with a loco (pilot?) headshunt to give more flexibility. The only moves the running line now fouls are moving sets in/out of the carriage sidings which shouldn't be a terribly frequent occurrence. Operating the storage loop points from the main station would mean no need at all for a storage loop operator except for exchanging stock from the drawers under the layout which I envisage might only be done once every 3~4 operating sessions and would be an hour's work prior to powering the layout up and would include track cleaning once all the storage loop tracks are empty.

Changes on this test drawing are to place the colliery between the main and branch lines thus separating them. Points of discussion: 1) This lowers the rural look of the branch and raises its industrialised look, so it has more of a Welsh Valleys mood than a Forest of Dean line. The backscene here now has to depict the major colliery structures such as winding house, pump house, etc which previously were off scene within the operating well. Thus backscene here is now industrial rather than pretty-pretty. 2) Extremely tight radius of main line leaving terminus now but this could be masked with a forest scene inside the curve. 3) Baseboards are now extremely simple, all corner shaping has been removed and all sides are parallel. 4) The branch terminus is now brought across to just beyond the doorway at a more acute angle and is operated from within the main operating well = huge bonus. 5) Only real drawback of this is the continuous run passing through the terminus. I'd like it to go around it but joining it back up at the right hand end is a problem.

Had a bit of a stumble this morning when I realised that it is key to me that the main station is NOT on the continuous run. While the idea of a Grandborough Junction style station is appealing I would rather not have to have my shunting/marshalling operations at the main "source of interest" on the layout be interrupted every 3 mins by a train trundling through. I would like to be able to leave a train circulating the main run and be able to play shunty things with both freight and passenger at the terminus so I'm back to having the circuit avoid the main station entirely. I do not want a gradient so it needs to run behind or in front of the station. Behind makes more sense in terms of relationships between adjacent tracks but then I lose a big section of the continuous run behind scenery. Thoughts?

I like that idea Phil, I'll have a play about with that tomorrow (er... today).

I very much agree with you on Grandborough Junction. In its final form I preferred it over Buckingham. More AnyRail doodling coming up.

Currently exploring what happens with a conventional run and a lifting door flap. It allows the colliery to spread out, makes the goods yard more spacious and gives some space between branch line and backscene. I'm going to try a second version with the branch terminus across the angle towards the door again, I just feel like the old problems will return if I hide the storage roads even with that much clearance. https://www.dropbox.com/s/nrtrxs35wbctb1r/NewPlan_Six.jpg

Very interesting. I had assumed the circuit track would come off the lifting flap against the wall and pass behind the entire station and so I'd lose a big chunk of scenic run but this idea is better. With your suggestion of the track passing through a set of station buffer stops in effect the model becomes a terminus to fiddle yard plan with the "stalk" of single line track on the lifting flap as a loco spur for the fiddle yard and the circuit becomes just a way to let a couple of trains circle around while in relaxing mode. I like the freight loop that accesses the colliery as well making it easier for trains to leave/arrive in either direction. I am rather wedded to the Hunstanton track plan though and I do prefer terminus working to a through station. Hmm... food for thought. That's another 8ft of run giving me 408" of track so I'd get a 7" rise at a 1 in 58 gradient and a 6" rise at 1 in 68. Then no duck-unders at all, which is very appealing.

The trouble I have is I'm compressing areas a great deal and I already have one of those a few feet away so a second one so close would look very wrong.

I agree with what people were saying in that it does now look decidedly more rural. Below is another update using a single slip graphic and shifting that crossing westwards a tad to ease the left hand divergent curve. I have made the observer/guest viewing well smaller now and there now seems to be a good deal more baseboard exposed that is trackless. CJF would have fits if he could see the abuse we are heaping on his concepts. https://www.dropbox.com/s/rr2yjf1d5xihtlh/NewPlan_FiveB.jpg

Exposing my low nerd ranking here I assume an outside single slip is one where the track avoiding the crossing passes fully outside the frogs of the two crossing tracks. *has just googled and learned something*

Sorry I wasn't being difficult, honest! I see exactly what you mean now.

I am sorry I don't follow you. Are you able to explain more? Which crossover, the left or right one? I am not sure what you mean by the blue additions. The blue box is the area reserved for the high level (+4") branch terminus. I just haven't drawn it in yet.

Which gets us this. For the time being I am going to avoid the across-door lifting section. https://www.dropbox.com/s/8fzhno4hoyqghpf/NewPlan_Five.jpg

Aha, I see it now. Well with 2 trains circulating across a diamond crossover that might be fun I understand now that the "west" diamond crossover is only used to reverse direction and that action would require the other train to stop but it could be realistically be held at one of the junctions. Hmmm... *rubs chin thoughtfully* I shall have a bit more fiddling about in AnyRail tomorrow.

Interesting. The issue I see is that there is no continuous run that doesn't need points changing every circuit and I just want to sit back from time to time with a cuppa and watch trains circulate and I think, due to the simple geometry of how railway tracks are constructed that a double track circuit is the only way to achieve this with an out-and back option from/to the terminus. Or ... did I miss something massively basic?

I was thinking there was something odd about it, it looked photoshopp-ey but I couldn't work it out. I think the track is from a b/w photo and has been digitally coloured. Nice formation though.

All good points. My main issue with your suggestions is I do really want a terminus station rather than a through one. I like your subsequent post with the storage in a corner and the BLT at the angle. I'll go back to a blank sheet and continue to doodle.

Here is a version with the main line singled. I must confess I don't like it at all, though I'm not sure why. I think a single track version needs a complete rethink. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bc0jtupgv3wbn1/NewPlan_Four.jpg

Perhaps a hinge at each end since the BLT board is 8 ft long. Putting the main line back there into a tunnel and so allowing a full scenic treatment above it is tempting, but as has been wisely counselled, its not a good idea because 1) something is bound to derail back there and 2) tracks need cleaning and to me that still means by hand and not one of those track cleaning cars which never seem to do a proper job.

It was the Coleford line I was thinking of, yes. Well spotted. Quite a few of the Forest lines were fettled up tramways in fact.

Thank you for those numbers, interesting to know. Yes, I'm sure it happened in the real world on quite a few occasions - Hunstanton itself is shown in later years with the platforms stuffed full of holiday trains - but my feeling is that in model railways it happens too often so its an aspect I want to avoid if at all possible. A modest train standing at a large platform on a model railway draws one's eye because such things are not so common. My two 5ft platforms are 380 ft scale length and the 6ft pair are 457 ft, so starting to become a decent length for a secondary line. 4 57ft coaches a van and a 4-4-0 loco would be about 275 ft I think which is a nice ratio. Given the space I've got, which may seem a lot but once you put a 15ft long terminus in there the space soon diminishes, hence why I think a second major station in there would start to look too crowded. I wanted to resist the aspect of "clutter" which v1.0 suffered from, little bits here and there tucked into corners. You'll note that the first plan had all four corners used by tracks and this one has all four empty with three of them available for scenery - which I want to keep low key but effective rather that busy and full of cameos. I am thinking of making the storage roads scenic as I did on v1.0 simply to make them less of an eyesore and simply so that trains standing on them look a little more appealing. The series of six parallel roads could also be used as a photographic set. This would consist of just tunnel mouths, ballasting and weathering with perhaps a boundary fence/hedge and a signal cabin or two but if I do that I can then make the fourth corner scenic as well. It won't look correct in realism terms but it will look less ugly. I suppose if you squinted hard you might just about imagine it's somewhere like Bullo Pill Yard. I have thought more about tramways and I think I can make part of the branch run along a road edge in the SE corner and along part of the S wall. If I make the overline bridge where it crosses the main line a tunnel mouth there's also potential for making the approach to the terminus through a built up area giving it an aspect of the Welshpool & Llanfair, Wantage or Wisbech and giving me a little more depth to the branch terminus scene. There will probably also be scope to use the timber bridge design I was planning to have before along the S wall and which I discussed here. That bonus would be balanced against a length of mainline track in a tunnel 2ft from the baseboard edge with only a 4" height clearance which makes alarm bells ring again /\ /\ /\ Assuming the track curves in from the left and passes in front of the pair of what looks like 1920s villas, a road could enter from the backscene at the right, be crossed by the railway and run in front of it along the S wall. This view would then be looking E on the model. /\ /\ /\ This scene has potential for the curve into the station. (As an aside I wanted to add to that caption: "except in Porthmadog.") /\ /\ /\ As does this. The idea of tramways makes me think of the Forest again and if the branch is assumed to be a converted horse tramway in the Forest and coming out of it in a westerly or northerly direction then a river scene with bridges somewhere along the south wall near the colliery would represent the Wye. I'm trying to think up some features to develop mood and character.

Yes, I just laid out the track plan I have in my copy of "The Ross, Monmouth and Pontypool Road Line" by Stanley C Jenkins, pub. by Oakwood and was hoping to get some explanation of all the loops so that I can delete those I don't need. Monmouth Troy offers a more conventional junction layout. My concern though is there isn't room for a station there between the colliery and the branch. I was also leaning towards an uncluttered main line. If I were to have a second station my preference would be for another terminus but that would probably require a gradient up to a terminus above the storage loops and that introduces another feature on my "avoid" list which is storage roads not easily accessible.

And here is a crude sketch of Lydbrook Junction layout. Can anyone please explain the purpose of all the loops. I assume exchange facilities for freight coming from Lydbrook that needed to be reversed and sent to Ross. Plus apparently a freight lay-by loop (bottom track). Is that right? I also assume a single track to Ross (the upper one) with two tracks serving the wire works.

Over the next couple of days I'll try three more versions, one as single track and a complete redesign with a doorway flap (both single and double track). I'll drop them in here and people can have their wicked way with them!

Thank you for the comments Phil, all input is very welcome because one of my past faults was not listening to good advice. Nothing in what you said puts me off at all. Its why I throw plans up on the forum, because of the criticism that it generates. 1) Yes, I'm very aware of that and its one of my main concerns. I can widen the baseboards at the east loop so that there is more scenery beyond the boundary fence. This will allow me to shift everything a little bit away from the backscene and open the look of the thing up somewhat. Part of the main line run could also be tunnelled allowing more open space generally. 2) This was a problem with the first plan as well, in fact more so I fear. I don't like it either. Its that "track mat" look isn't it? With the narrow room I am not sure how to address that without dropping the concept completely and going for something else. 3) Yes, true. I do enjoy shunting goods yards though so always have that urge to squeeze one more siding in. 4) Yes, that's a feature of the plan though and I see no alternative unless I put them in tunnels which is something I'd really rather avoid. 5) I am still massaging things and can ease those a bit more I think. I am still fiddling and easing everything where I can by stages. 6) There is only one duckunder to the branch terminus and I am happy with that one. As I mentioned before if the branch is operated by a push pull set or some kind of Col Stephenson railbus there is no need to even go there to operate it, just the one daily freight working to be shunted. The east loop's hole is for maintenance only so will not be used most of the time. The storage loops can largely be accessed/operated from the doorway if need be. Trains will still be quite short so three can be stored on each passing loop in the storage area giving the line a capacity of 12 trains, 14 if one includes one more each at terminus and colliery. Control is digital so no need for section breaks in the storage loops. Trains that are short such as maybe a milk working or a small local passenger create more space as I can very nearly buffer up one train behind the next. I am very reluctant indeed to use a lifting flap again. Given the comments about double track I will try a single track version and see how that looks.