Lacathedrale

I can't really say for sure, but I do think I've gone off the whole 'scenic modelling' thing in favour of representational or stylised impressionism. My eyes just glaze over when there are acres of static grass or rock castings, as finely done as they are. Maybe that is why I'm attracted to Unitrack (and to tinplate 0 gauge sectional track) - it's half system diagram, half railway. One thing that's an absolute must on a model railway for me is going to be working signals and interlocking, I reckon!

So, i've been mulling over the thread for a while and it's a really tough path to negotiate conceptually. Do I want to build a system, a layout or a locomotive? Should I build something I want the most, or that has the most chance of success? Should I be focusing on the journey, or the destination?

Any updates, @Dr Gerbil-Fritters ?

I must reiterate how much this thread and the layout behind it has influenced me so much - it's wonderous.

Was led to believe ballast magic would be amazing and almost ruined my 2mm layout with it - back to Johnson's Klear/Pledge (or whatever the current version is)

Very interesting @Skinnylinny - I had spoken to Mr. King about some ex-SECR EMU drawings. I don't suppose it would be possible to show an excerpt to see what we get for our money? Many thanks!

Just how big is your stack of remaining Alan Gibson S-scale kits, Steve?

Funnily enough, the Benevolent Institute remains (albeit without the strange dogbone shaped driveway) and while the intermediate area in the photograph is now houses, the fields in the distance are still there, thankfullly, as are those out of shot to the left. Some light afternoon reading:

Well, @Zomboid - I think that the L-shaped layout probably needs to be initially self contained, but in theory forms an elbow of a larger future layout. In such a limited space the 2mmFS standards naturally reassert themselves as the obvious choice. Overall however, my sojourn into coarse 0 via @Nearholmer has really got me thinking about continuous running live steam in the garden in G1, G3 or 5" Gauge. That said, the purchase of the property while still going ahead is not yet a done deal and as such I'm reluctant to count too many eggs before they're laid. I have found a picture eof the house (leftmost of the trio) in 1949 which shows the proximity to the brighton mainline. Sadly, no Pullmans - just a pickup goods held outside HH station:

Well it's not to say I won't pursue 1 Gauge or or 5" Gauge, which I think are significantly grand - but rather that I can only do one of the three, and the small scale layout can only exist in that L-shape format at first. Either way, it's great food for thought and I'm very appreciative of the help and advise, as always.

So my thoughts after a short break are - that it's probably worthwhile designing a layout that's initially no larger than two wings of an L-shape, with one less than 7' and one less than 9' - that way it can fit into any room, and also live in the insulated garden workshop. As I said, I don't think I can sustain a model engineering hobby with a garden layout AND a smaller model railway, so the garden workshop can play host to one of the two mutually exclusive options.

Well as if by some bizarre coincidence the property I'm buying has a 14' x 8' insulated, powered shed just by the back of the house! i think at this rate though, it's going to end up with a workshop for a live-steam garden railway more than a layout room!

Very cute @Nearholmer - any more pictures? a plan? Overall SG vs NG is an Interesting question - I've almost always considered standard gauge in whatever scale, my only real interaction with narrow-gauge is with Rev. Awdry's series from when I was a nipper. I've cheekily asked the missus for a driving experience on one of the Welsh narrow-gauge lines so that might change! I do quite enjoy watching videos from GE Rik: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ0dpEHVU7JnSX5vvFX79-w - who does the whole 'light narrow gauge railway in the garden' thing and that does match up with my 'system-layout' premise from earlier... For the sake of argument, how does one even go about planning a layout of that size, even if the track plan itself is quite simple? It feels like something you'd read in one of Greenly's books more than MRJ or BRM!

I think for the garden G1 is the smallest for me, the garden is big enough for it, and it allows live steam which for me is the whole point of going large. G1 and 5" tight curves both scale out to about 3.5 chains in radius, the same as a 3' radius curve in 4mm. So it would be possible to think of the garden space as either: 14' x 7' layout in 4mm if modelling in 5" gauge 36' x 18' layout in 4mm if modelling in 1 Gauge This might help keep the content of this part of the discussion vaguely on-topic with the forum

Sounds like a perfect job for a 5" gauge weed killing train, job done thank you and goodnight. On the bright side, it's going to be at least a year into the future for any new humans to turn up so I have at least a small chance before my world implodes. Based on how long the rudimentary horizontal engine I built took, is it a better choice to attempt to build a live steam loco since they are known to take a bloody age to build anyway, and as such delays and lack of time are not felt as earnestly - or better to build a layout from ready-to-plonk components where minutes snatched here and there can have a meaningful impact on progress?

@Keith Addenbrooke I also watched the Jack Burgess docs on YouTube - note he also 'doesn't operate his own railroad' ! - but sustainability is most definitely something I'm interested in. One of the largest challenges I've got is maintaining interest over long periods of time, hence all of this 'chunking' of design and building.

@Nearholmer while it's not a done deal forever, but both my partner and I are working from home and not likely to return to commuting for some time/at all - I'm 36 and she's just about to turn 31. Obviously neither of us are parents but my very broad expectations is that a few hours a week is not unreasonable to expect to have to oneself? @Zomboid - the larger scale is replacing the smaller scale model engineering for now, as I have disposed of aforementioned 3x1' plank and decided to not start anything new until the house situation resolved itself. As I see it, one of the definite plusses for garden railways is how intrinsically child-friendly they (appear to be)/are with regard to robustness and interactivity even from a young age. So, for the sake of completeness, this is the garden. The grassy area is 90' long by 45' wide. View from the rear towards the house - green shed is fully insulated/powered and 'workshop' shed previously mentioned: View from the patio (adjacent the shed) towards the back of the garden. Just in shot on the left of the above shot, and nestled behind the fir tree in this shot is a smaller 12 x 5' shed - you can see the slight slope. There's a large and active 5" gauge locomotive society at Beech Hurst which runs for the public, so having an equivalent 5" gauge track at home could be fun - but feels like may be a bridge too far - particularly since a 20' radius curve will really be skirting the minimum even with gauge widening! I'm a member of the Gauge 1 association, and a G1 layout in this space could be quite significant! Either way I definitely cannot sustain both a garden railway (and associated model engineering) and a model railway at the same time - they are definitely mutually exclusive!

Well I joined the 2mm association in 2017, built one 2' x 6" plank and one mostly-finished 1' x 3' plank - so those numbers don't look so bad to me @Zomboid I am very much considering a garden railway @Nearholmer - having just built myself a single-acting horizontal steam engine from bar stock, and finding it extremely rewarding, I have a Stuart 10V lined up next and a stationary boiler, and then it's definitely onto a live steam loco: Maybe I should start a different topic for that...

You're right of course, no point getting very far down the line with designs before rooms are notionally allocated. By my understanding an L-shape of 9' x 9' can fit into all three bedrooms (top right - across bay window and r/h wall, top left - left wall and bottom wall, bottom left - top wall and left wall)? Thinking about it, I'll already have a few spaces already fully allocated to me - namely an attached single garage (17' x 8') and a (13 x 7' int dimension) workshop in the garden. The garage for now plays host to my '72 MGB GT but that is unlikely to be the case forever. With that in mind, I think If a family comes along, my office space will probably end up shifting into a room that also functions as a spare bedroom. So maybe that means: Start off in one of the larger rooms from the get-go, with the assumption that the room must host a double bed AND an office cube AND a potential layout Build a layout in my 14' x 8' workshop for now cohabiting with my tools Build one or two small parts of a larger system-layout in a footprint no more than an L-shaped 9' x 7' - so they can move into any one of the rooms or the workshop, or the garage, after the dust settles I like the idea of using a detachable cassette on a swing-out cantilevered support, see this link (timestamp 7:36) :

That's a great shout. I'd sketched up with the desk infront of the window to give this hybrid of Harlequin/your plan and my idea of an iterative approach: Starting with a simple L-shaped layout, it can be extended with a bridging section over the door, and then if neccesary or desired, around behind the desk to complete a continuous run: One sneaky thought was that if I build Holborn Viaduct, the widened lines can be modelled as scenic during Stage 1, but potentially connect up for the continuous running when Stage 3 comes along - for all that through goods traffic, MR, LSWR, GNR, LNWR locos, etc. - particularly if half of Ludgate hill is modelled elsewhere on the layout. I think that is going to be a little ambitious, but it does get the juices flowing! If I put the desk area on th eleft, it would limit me a little because now I've got two walls that ""need"" a thin, non-scenic run:

The master bedroom, thankfully, @Nearholmer - is off on the other side of the house I was fully prepared to fight my ground but I think as @Harlequin has pointed out the smallest room actually might have the best layout potential. I had totally ignored that the top-left room has cupboards so can't have a continuous loop unless those would removed or taken out of commission - and the orthogonal nature of the small room makes a continuous run (should one be desired) pretty straightforward if desired. The top left room also has a huge south facing window, which won't be comfortable for trains or computer screens! Interesting how we both ended up gravitating towards it... Here is my rendition of the space this sacrifices a few inches behind the desk for an iterative construction approach, and a notional continuous run, although I like it less and less the more I think about it... Rather than your design of one removable loop section, I've got two lift-out sections and two non-scenic bridge pieces - which feels a bit flat now I look at it!

"Oh so which room were you thinking of for an office?" The conversation started so innocently, "because I'm preparing myself not to have an argument about where you put your trains..." . No conclusions yet and the field is open. We have very little in the way of clutter and knick-knacks, so I imagine that eaves storage is going to be suitcases and seasonal clothes. I'm not entirely sure I want to start punching holes through the wall at this early stage! I think by the same token while I'm still not entirely sure I should be discounting a continuous run around the perimeter of the rooms, domestic bliss probably comes from starting smaller. I think for either option having a 'break' at the exit from the station to support both, or infact neither (should the layout need to be moved or remodelled) is a good idea - for what it's worth, I wouldn't do a helix for 2mmFS/OO/H0, only for N/FineTrax presuming diesel/electric motive power. I sketched up all three rooms in QCAD for some practise, and this is what I ended up with: The solid cyan line is a 6" wide baseboard, and I'm working under the assumption this is the minimum if required to pass by functional areas such as behind a desk or infront of a windowsill. The dashed cyan parallel line shows how a baseboard might be extended into the room by about 16". The purple and yellow circles - 18" and 12" radius. For 2mmFS/4mm the larger radius must be accounted for, and both radii are tight enough to not be desirable as visible curves. A comfortable area for my desk is about 5' x 5' x 5' - which means that if a layout is going to traverse the desk, it has to go behind rather than above - otherwise it'd end up crossing in front of the windows and both left-hand rooms would lose about 18" to 2' in lenth due to the eaves. I think the top-right room would be best if I got rid of the built-in cupboards and had my desk there. I think the top-left room would be best if the cupboards had to stay. Thoughts?

How about a helix in the blob, to give space for another small cameo before looping around into a storage yard?

Bottom left is eaves access - that wall of the room is vertical only from the floor to the top of the access door - here's a pic looking at that door: The slope of the eves is visible just above the RH side of the bed frame and continues at roughly that angle, unfortunately not wide enough for a balloon loop. Incidentally, this is a picture of the top-left room: @DavidCBroad I love that but I am fairly certain the other half would have my guts for garters @Zomboid your plan is very interesting and a terminus-to-balloon-loop in OO/H0 seems like a very solid, logical choice - particularly if there's a suitable dividing point between the layout and the balloon loop, so it could be re-sited or extended as caprice wills.

Thank you both for ideas, I will ponder! The new changes look lovely! What are the main thrust of the changes to teutonise the plan? Presumably right hand running, but anything else? Did you get as far as car-card and waybill operation when you had it not-in-bits? Still waiting for that video tour