Lacathedrale

Wow, I have NEVER seen someone solder the vee in-situ like that, bravo! I believe I have some 4mm timbers knocking around, so I think trying that with some 0.5mm shim under the vee for the wing rail fixing is my next plan. I think I'll give 00 a shot and see how it compares.

As alluded to in a previous post, the refocusing of the Pre Grouping Minories plan to an SE&CR/SER/LCDR Prototype has its benefits, not least the huge amount of research that went into my original attempt at this project. A rarely photographed corner of Holborn Viaduct Track Plan Amendments The change of scope from LNWR to SECR demands very little change, for of course the layout was not prototypical but designed. For the track plan, the only potential amendment is to extend the dock track into a departures-only platform, which is both an homage to the original Holborn Viaduct and permits the fitting of a SE&CR overall roof: Track Plan v2.1.1 'La Belle Savage' circa 1905 Though only two rather than three bays, it has a pleasing similarity to HV - the parallelogram platform arrangement, with the single carriage dock is afforded naturally by the geometry of the throat, as is the rear engine shed. Scenic Treatment The left of the layout is bracketed by an overall roof and substantial station building with a hotel above. At the rear, wall with false archways and a stern victorian warehouse behind the platforms. The middle-rear of the layout is marked by an engine shed with integral water tank, a 'Engine Man's Room', and a coal stage. On the rear-right a low wall protects a the drop down to ground level before the rise of the Belle Sauvage printing works behind. At the front-left of the layout, a spiral cab road descends to ground level and pops out in Bear Alley, with waste ground at the rear of other commercial properties before another alley. Note that on the front right I have noted the route down to the Widened Lines tracks on their steep drop under HV, but I don't think I'm going to include them as a scenic element - it's all ending up a little too crowded! Prototype Inspiration Anyway, whether by serendipity or chance, the Minories track layout functionally matches the real Holborn Viaduct very well. Note the lack of crossovers, the engine shed at the end of the platform and narrow and cramped area. Also note the arrival-only and departure-only platforms - the dock track being an homage to this: Holborn Viaduct 1871 from English Engineering Inside the station was magnificent, with huge globe lamps. The view below is from the wooden platform extenion of the plan to the opposite corner, and also details the wonderful 'mixed dog boxes' of the LCDR local trains. The big square grey object behind the train in the middle is (I believe) the ladies WC which was perched in a triangle behind the buffer stop. It was originally three bays, I've narrowed to two - but I think the essential character remains: Profile E-E from 1871 plan above The very low clearance above the widened lines and girder trackbed over them is evident in the cross section above - A mere 20 feet from the bottom of the tracks to ground level means the spiral cab road from the concourse down to Bear Alley (still a cul-de-sac at the point I'm modelling!) is modelable, as is Seacoal/Fleet Lane. Though not a huge distance, it would significantly compromise the structural rigidity of the modules to cut the valance down to ground level, so I think these will probably end up seen from above and through peep-holes in the side of the valance. On the original the overall roof only covers part of the tracks, much like Minories - the remainder being handled by individual platform canopies: Note the wooden platform on the left side over the widened lines tunnel approach, and the ringed shunt signals. This picture dates from 1917 and the station has already had the platforms lengthened - the first of many - those water cranes were originally on plain ground in the 1871 drawing. On the far right is the pilot loco engine shed (the doorway void just visible, with 'PEARS' of Pears Soap written above, and above that the water tank. Hopefully that gives some more context around the layout!

I have come to believe that having a connection to a railway that you're modelling is a key way to motivate yourself past the sticking points one often encounters during the construction of a layout. I have built several layouts, none of which have been my core interest, and none of which were able to captivate me beyond the initial period of excitement in them. I think for better or worse, the swing towards LNWR as a subject matter of this layout might have been some kind of unintentional self-sabotage - clearly it is a caprice and doesn't truly reflect my core interests at all - and so in order to give myself the best shot, I'm bringing the focus back to what brought me to the party: The SE&CR: As an aside: I now feel very, very stupid for selling my SE&CR 4mm items a couple of years ago (and I am instituting a policy where I will not be selling any of my stock or components at all going forward - for precisely this reason) and I'll need to reacquire the main items. As part of this process and some potential demands of time in my personal life, I'm also settling on 00-gauge standards for now to get things actually moving rather than mired in years of track building, re-wheeling. The clear and obvious inspiration is the timeless siren song of Holborn Viaduct. If this is starting to sound awfully familiar, then I don't blame you: I'm somewhat fearful of re-reading how much ground I'm covering again, but the reboot of the above project into 2mmFS never happened due to the massive stock concerns. However, the setting still rings beautifully true. The name "Belle Sauvage" was a notorious inn adjacent the site of Holborn Viaduct allegedly named after a prostitute - and seeing as my version of HV will be an unadulterated Minories layout in an even smaller space, why not set it and name it thus? What is truly wonderful is that the LNWR Coaches, Horsebox and locomotive I have on the go will work perfectly as a cross-thames service in an urban SE&CR environment, and the drop board configuration of the baseboard will allow me to finally model the Ludgate Hill bridge that I've always wanted to do. Sometimes, these things just have a way of working themselves out. Please PM me if you have a SECR P- or H-class! Thank you,

I meant to ask on this - 00-SF or vanilla 00-BF?

Thank you - I'll have to use some meths to get the double sided tape off, I guess!

Is that the drybrushed colour on the rail sides and buffer stops in these photographs? I think drybrushing and colour-scaling is one of the few areas that we all get wrong, but yours looks just right. I also wanted to ask and I'm sure you've already written up somewhere - what you use for ballast/ground cover and if you're ever modelled it over the track timbers? Many thanks, William

Thank you PMP - I guess I really was speaking about the hattons/Hornby pre-group coaches and the Bachmann coal tank/precedent rather than as a generic question. Honestly I'm seriously considering modelling 'authentic' late 19th century practise of ballasting over the sleepers and just doing it in bloody 00 at this rate

Ah thank you - presumably because bogies and wagon frames are scale width, with correct length pinpoint axles - whereas locomotives have narrower chassis and corresponding axles. Is simply a case of replacing the axles with longer ones, or does one need to also replace the wheels? Again, specifically talking about inside frame, inside cylinder/valve Bachmann locomotives.

I've had alot of fun building my first P4 turnout, but I'm worried about the overhead of wheel (and sometimes chassis?) replacement on every otherwise perfectly fine RTR model to facilitate it in a layout context. Current and forthcoming RTR represents about half of the stock I wish to run on the layout - the Hattons Genesis and Hornby generic pre-group coaches and the two Bachmann LNWR locomotives: the coal tank and the forthcoming improved precedent. I have heard that modern 00 wheels can often be eased out to a 16.5mm B2B, though It looks to me like the average DOGA Intermediate/RP25-110 wheel is 0.4mm wider than an EM wheel, 0.25mm of which is in the thickness of the flange. Given the 1mm EMGS flangeway, I don't suppose this would be a problem - but I have no meaningful experience. Basically, if I have to re-wheel everything for EM or P4, I may as well go with P4 and at least have the satisfaction of really nice looking track, or 00 for the expedition of getting it done. However, if rolling stock and particularly those locomotives can just have their wheels eased out instead - that puts EM in a separate consideration. Any thoughts?

Without too much swearing, got most of it down and working. I added about 50g of liquid lead to the underside of my wagon and it sails through with no problem. I've not got any tiebars sorted yet, so unless someone gives me a suggestion I'm just going to solder the tips to a long piece of copperclad to test that end of the turnout: I still need to add the curved road slide chairs and figure out how the heck I'm going to power the wing rails and switch blades...

@hayfield what's the best way to determine a) where the centre of the bend in the wing rail really is, and b) where that should fall on the template? This is a 1:8 so fairly shallow and with the various rail components on a 2nd printout (i.e. without timbers) it looked perfect...

Hmmm... I guess I did not give full credit on how small the threshold between 'works fine' and 'completely non-functional' was in P4 ... Gently re-adjusted the curved wing rail and it all slotted back into place. I think I would really like to have a fully assembled common crossing for the next one...

Hmmm. Something's not quite right - the wing rail is gauged properly against the curved stock rail, but slipping the flangeway gauge through the curved route strikes the nose. I used a straight edge to continue the curved rail parallel with the angle of the vee, but clearly it has drifted infinitesimally, so I had a real mare trying to get the wing rail aligned properly and had to tweak the angle slightly - which is presumably how the geometry's off there. Either way, it appeared to roll smoothly through. I felt the faintest whisper of a rub around the knuckle area so to see if I could alleviate that, I shifted the new wing rail a little longitudinally to no avail. After a little bit of fiddling, now my wagon rides up over the knuckle i really hope my work so far hasn't been wasted, gosh I know it's rewarding when it works, but I'm not entirely sure where I've gone wrong here and that's quite a few hours down the pan @Izzy are you talking about soldered pcb/etch construction or plastic chairs? I feel like doing this with all plastic chairs - particularly around the vee - is like trying to do it with one arm tied behind my back! @Regularity thank you for the drawing of the gauges, next time I'm in the workshop I'll have a look - I think I have some 5BA studding laying around.

The upfront costs (while they can be minimised in some areas as you have discussed in your turnout thread) are quite high - certainly it's a break-even by about half a dozen turnouts, but when one has to make them successfully as part of that bargain, I can see why some balk at the idea. I am by no means wealthy but my modelling is constrained more by time than money at this point - so getting the various gauges and jigs to avoid anciliary work was worthwhile to me. Similarly, though I actually have a lathe and milling machine, and in theory it shouldn't be a problem to produce my own roller gauge, mint gauge, etc. - I would rather pay £5 and have it ready to use, than spend the few hours to make the parts. I imagine as and when my situation changes (it's fairly horrid to think I'm over 50% through the average working career already) this may reverse. Anyway - I have slotted in the centre section of a check rail gauge on the X-chair position, just placed loosely in the below photo, and glued down the straight section of the curved stock rail (i.e. to the tip of the wing rails): The next job is to fit the other wing rail, this time using the check rail gauge , then the straight closure rail/blade, then the curved stock rail, then the curved closure rail/blade. Simple... right? I would normally fit both stock rails, but I note that @hayfield lays the straight closure rail/blade before that, since there are functional spacers after the slide chairs to that may help align and vuide the curved stock rail a little.

Ah I understand now! Thank you!

Thank you, I know what the check rail is for - but it's not clear to my why I would use a check rail gauge - surely the part of the wing rail parallel to the stock rail should be set at the normal gauge from the stock rail? My understanding was that the check rail gauge was used to space the check rail from the vee (or vice-versa), where the milled flat is used to sit ontop of the vee?

I did run downstairs and double check and the triangular gauge was indeed on the stock rail- it's def. the parallax effect in that photo although I was worried too! It might be too late now but why would I use a check rail gauge in this scenario? The leg of the triangular gauge is narrow enough to fit between the stock rail and check rail, and the check rail is held to gauge by the check rail chairs?

Hi @hayfield - sorry to bother you - I'm following your process at the top of page 3 and it's going well so far, but I seem to have missed a step - you have the straight stock rail, vee and curved-side wing rail in place (as I do), but the next photograph shows the curved stock rail in place and gauges on the other wing rail. I assume as per the page 1 build you set the curved stock rail (by eye) a bit further towards the toe (as per page 1 build), and then gauged the wing rail off of it? I am a bit concerned that I'm going to get the order wrong at this point so if it's possible to clarify that would be excellent. I think I now understand that you are leaving the middle of the check-rail-chair-used-as-a-b-chair in place to maintain the check rail gap automatically?

0.742" for the gauge looks decent enough to me : Now I'll use the check gauge to slide up the wing rail and glue the chair at the other end. Not entirely sure of the next step? I THINK it should be to set out the curved stock rail by eye a little further along (right now it's fixed up to the tip of the vee) and then the other wing rail...

First wingrail half down: once this is set up , I will adjust it by sliding towards and away from the vee, and then glue the single chair all out there by itself to secure it. Following @hayfield's method!

Hi Matt, I'm not a member of MERG but the use of signals switching track power is something I definitely want to implement. Are you able to scan or summarise that part of the journal please? Getting trains running is a massive boost, so good luck. I personally found ID Backscenes to be inexpensive and worth while, but desaturated colours in the backscene are always complementary. Many thanks!

Would it have been this time? 1996ish... Credit: flickr somewhere I hope I can hit the high points with the Lima model I've got. Is it possible to obtain the cantrail stripes and E W & S transfers from somwhere?

I must ask - when are you going to plump for a resin DLP? Your designs are wonderful and clearly work a treat, but wouldn't the surface finish of a resin printer better reflect the hard work you've put in?

I'm trying P4. I have the B-chair from the exactoscale sprue but it's split, presumably expecting PCB/shim to support the wing rail against the vee, so I'll still need to use the check rail chair?

Wonderful models and ingenious techniques - thank you for sharing.