Lacathedrale

To be honest, I'd not thought of the fact that calling-on arms would not be needed for shunting movements if those movements were controlled by a shunt signal on the outbound line - that's a great point.

Had a quick chat with a mate and we were discussing the relative knowledge of pre-1900 railways when presented as layouts to a) general public and b) model railway enthusiast. What level do you think the average B-person would be able to sniff out as being wrong for a particular pre-1900 layout? Liveries for late pre-grouping (i.e. most RTR stuff)? RCH 1907-1923 PO wagons? REA-type switches? Ballast not over the running lines? At what point is it sensible to draw the line for design? stock? operation?

The Surrey Iron Railway ran from the Thames at Wandsworth to south to Reeves Corner in Croydon from 1804. It was extended via the Croydon, Merstham and Godstone Railway in 1806 to Merstham, just past the end of the M23 motorway. Though very profitable initially, it fell into disuse with the opening of the Croydon canal in 1809 (and given the abject failure of the Croydon canal and it's subsequent sale to form the trackbed of the London & Croydon it really must have been in a bad state) and was fully abandoned in 1846 after a failed bill by the L&SWR and L&BR (now LB&SCR). The CMGR forming part of the new Brighton Main line. Overall, a fascinating read here: http://www.wandle.org/surreyironrailway/header.html It's a fertile soil for 'what if' scenarios given that it involves the LBSCR, SECR and LSWR, the draining of the croydon canal and the construction of the route to Brighton!

Ah, added bolt heads and nuts all over with dots of rocket card glue - sure, they aren't hexagonal and they are a bit wonky, but under a layer of primer and a few layers of paint and weathering it's just texture at that point and it's good enough for me: It's missing the hooks for horse haulage, but other than a couple of nuts on the solebars that's it! I'll get the blighter undercoated and we can see where we stand. I must admit, the addition of inside ironwork really does make wagons pop - I can only assume it's a cost-reduction thing in injection plastic dies, and after all - few people notice. Did you notice that the wagon was a scale 6" too narrow? Precisely! Anyway, I've had nothing but success from Vallejo acrylics, so I'm going to pursue those further with this. Thankfully this far in the past colours are notional and as long as I keep to a rough palette then it'll look fine. Next up is an LCDR Low-sided goods wagon. I built one earlier in this thread in S-scale if you want to see it in progress, in the thread I'll hopefully show it once I've got it to a state of completion as the SER 8t wagon above.

@jools1959 I posted a scan of it in my blog entry here:

Put the angle into the stanchions and it's looking alot better: I realise that my S-scale wagons didn't actually get underframes - so while I'm comfortable attempting to scratch build them, this one is going to get EMGS W-irons and 5and9 SER axleboxes/springs/buffers.

Yes, CJF did one in 'Signalling for Model Railways', it's in this thread somewhere It's pretty simple really - 3 platform homes + calling on arms on the inbound main line 3 platform starters 1 shunt signal on the loco spur 1 shunt signal on the outbound main line for shunting movements back into the station.

To get my groove back on I whipped up an SER 8T coal wagon from 1885 from some basic drawings: Unfortunately I've lost my bottle of Tamiya Extra Thin cement, and the wagon is a little soft around the edges thanks to the kind ministrations of MEKPAK and a large brush - but should do fine. Once it's hardened up overnight I'll file back the washer plates to the same height as the side planking. As per the wonderful builds on @ScottW's workbench and inspiration from Chris Croft's MRJ articles I have modelled the side knees and internal washer plates too, but bolt-heads are going to be applied as dots of card glue - I tried using bits of styrene rod and felt myself going mad. This is actually my first wagon in 4mm, the previous four being in S-scale. It feels a little quaint . Looking at the photo I realised I've not tapered the end stanchions - typical!

Thank you Jason!. It's a 3D printed body that's to fit ontop of a Jinty. Interesting that Wizard/Comet suggest the chassis can fit under a Bachmann OR a Hornby Jinty - I had no idea those were common, but I guess it makes sense! This will be my first time in a long time building a 4mm chassis - so I'm thinking High-level and Markits wheels...

Having spent the christmas period stuffing my gob with minced pies while reading the Buckingham Branch Lines books by Wild Swan, I thought I would revisit the idea of a 4mm spare bedroom layout - and funnily enough, a tweaked Buckingham Mark 2 with the original smaller Leighton Buzzard plan fits in ... really well: The middle box at the bottom represents the chimney breast, and the bay window (and my home office desk) is on the left. The door opening at the top right shows the right of way required for room entry, rather than the baseboard limits. The spur off the mainline is fairly notional - I like the idea of a Gasworks or Lime kiln area. I'm sure the fiddle yard could be improved but my brain's not yet firing on all cylinders. It does look a bit short but my time period is set to roughly 1899-1905 so realistically nothing longer than a 40' bogie coach and a five coach train of those and a Victorian 4-4-0 is about 3'6". Overall the layout reminds me alot of the pre-doubling of Caterham, that station being mirrored along the long axis with carriage roads behind the station and the goods yard in front - and is probably worth a revisit also...

Well, turns out that 1mm styrene is not a great material for the sides of coaches where you have to cut out lots of windows. Lesson learned! This was the beginning of an 1888 LCDR Brake 2nd, (an example seen on the Bluebell Railway is LCDR No. 114) - but I have aborted for now and have ordered some thinner material. I am now planning on using 0.4mm styrene for the main body, with window aperatures cut out and frames added from behind with another layer of 0.4mm. The distinctive square-edged beading will either be fretted out of a sheet, or put in place using strip material. With a NWSL Chopper, I think the latter will be significantly quicker!

Hi chums, I'm in need of a chassis for a loco body I've acquired which is a direct fit for the Hornby Jinty chassis. I understand this is somewhat long in the tooth now, with various models available and even some people suggesting Bachmann equivalents. I'm looking to convert to EM as well, so if there's an obvious replacement chassis kit that may be a better choice depending on how much the donor is. I see the usual Hornby Jinty's are going for about £25-30 on eBay? Cheers!

Tony, thank you so much. My most recent amendment quoted by @AndyID merges RTW and FJ as you have suggested, does that change what you've suggested? I'll run through your amendments ASAP but at a quick glance it looks like it's benefitted from another pair of seasoned eye as yours!

I caught page 1 of this thread as it was being populated and seemed to have passed me by until now and I see there are another half dozen. I'm sure I'm one of many silent readers, but I thought I'd just pop a note to say I found this very enjoyable to read and wish you all the best of luck.

Mike, I don't disagree at all - but we are in the DC subforum, in a thread about using lever frames and signals to control DC block sections so I think your potential audience is skewed in one direction from the outset. Though I'm still none the wiser about how I'll implement the wiring mentioned previously, it is after all still just a bunch of toggle switches, repeated N times around the layout. I think @t-b-g may well be alluding to systems which themselves are complicated (i.e. DCC block detection and occupancy feedback, CV tuning, computer controlled route setting via iTrain, etc.). Speaking of simplicity, I am wondering how feasible wire in tube or bell-crank operated turnouts would be, given that the need to only swap the frog which can be done at the lever end. Obviously, it's been done before - but I've done a bit of research online and it seems the majority of suppliers are lost to the mists of time....

This is the simplified block section layout, with thanks again to @IanN: Simplified Blocking Blocks W and T consolidated into R Block J consolidated into F Levers and resultant energisation + routing Lever 1 (Platform 1 Starter) powers E,R, to FY Lever 2 (Platform 2 Starter) powers F,R to FY Lever 3 (Platform 3 Starter) powers G,S,R to FY Lever 4 (Platform 4 Starter) powers H,S,R to FY Lever 5 (Platform 1 Shunt) powers E,R,R to BS Lever 6 (Platform 2 Shunt) powers F,J,R,R to BS Lever 7 (Platform 3 Shunt) powers G,S,R to BS Lever 8 (Platform 4 Shunt) powers H,S,R to BS Lever 9 (Loco Shunt) powers I,R to BS Lever 10 (Advanced Starter) powers Y to FY Lever 18 (P2 Calling On) powers V,S,F to BS Lever 19 (P3 Calling On) powers V,S,G to BS Lever 20 (P4 Calling On) powers V,S,H to BS Lever 21 (Down shunt signal) powers R + Rotary switch Lever 22 (Platform 2 Home) powers V,S,F,B to BS Lever 23 (Platform 3 Home) powers V,S,G,C to BS Lever 24 (Platform 4 Home) powers V,S,H,D to BS Lever 25 (Distant ) powers X to BS

@IanN thank you so much for taking the time to look over this with me. You are quite right about F and J - J was created as a split off of r, when I realised that if they were the same block I wouldn't be able to depart from P2 while there was an arrival into P3/4. I did not realise I could just merge with F - so that's perfect. I have a nagging feeling that r needs to be isolated from t but I can't trace it out in my head, so maybe you're right there. Thank you for the note on lever 18, 20 and 22. Re: signal 25 - I'll put my thinking cap on. Basically, the main line beyond the home gantry and ground signal (w and v) is a single train length until it hits the FY, so levers 10, 25, 97 and 99 are beyond the layout and really just toggling power to the FY tracks. If for the sake of prototypical accurace we call 25 an outer home, I'll survive! You make a good point about the length of t and signal 21, the ringed signals from the platforms power all of w, but then they are reset then the shunt signal only powers t. So, either the ground shunt signal needs to also power w, or like you said - extend t al the way around to W as there are (as far as I can see) no other conflicting moves. I'm most definitely hoping to fit working signals. I think I'd like to experiment with wire-in-tube before going full electric. I guess that's where those relays come in useful?

Retaing the blog for completed write-ups, I thought it would make sense to continue this thread for the in-progress happenings. And so, La Belle Sauvage, a reinterpretation of the original spec for this layout - Holborn Viaduct in 4mm Pre-grouping, achievable within a reasonable amount of time, etc. - but with a slightly different track plan, and in EM Gauge. I have recieved today, the track: Hard to believe EM Gauge track is just there to buy, these days! Unfortunately, basebards are still being laser cut, but we are significantly further along in terms of track components than we were last time. PS. If anyone has a H-class in SECR livery knocking around, do let me know

@brossard can you show me what you mean by tacky glue? I can see various items on amazon, ebay but they don't seem to describe whether or not they stay rubbery!

Lovely thread, read it all in one go over a couple of cups of tea - thank you @DRoe96 for documenting the progress!

Hi all, I've got baseboards coming in the new year and track imminent. With my layout plan to hand I want to ensure I'm not sitting on my hands for a delivery of materials to get started laying track when it comes around. The baseboards are 4" deep, 1/4" laser cut ply, with a four track terminus on two boards, and a double track viaduct on the other two. I am modelling a pre-group era in an urban location, so there is no ballast shoulder to speak of that needs to be modelled - infact, ballast will likely be OVER the sleepers and point timbers using fine ballast of some kind. Locomotive noise as long it is not excessive is not a major issue - I am not running sound locomotives, and the layout will hopefully have whistles and bell codes in due course. I would have probably just laid the track directly onto the ply, using PVA to fix stone-type ballast, but recently I have been considering whether a woodland-scenics or cork-style roadbed or sheet, glued with Copydex (because apparently the rubberised glue reduces noise transmission?), and a walnut-shell based ballast. Is this going to make a meaningful difference, or am I just making work for myself? Cheers,

I think the idea of maturing into this lever-frame block system may be a smart move - there's nothing stopping me hooking up standard SPDT switches to the terminal strip initially to validate everything works as intended, and only then replacing with relays and diode matrixes and rotary controllers On my plan, lever 25 (and 99 which is functionally identical from a block perspective) sets the block on the up arrivals main (v) either dead or controlled by BS, so I can bring a train to the platform homes, and prototypically re-set them both and this will isolate the train while other, non-departure station duties are performed by the BS controller. I can't quite see where 7 is on Buckingham - maybe it's in the video? - but in terms of down departure main since I have no dedicated headshunt it must be switchable between both controllers as shunt moves and departure moves both use it. Amen.

Forgot to say, @IanN - that looks fantastic!

I disagree fundamentally about technology, @DCB - I my entire job is microservices, machine learning, etc. and I want NONE of that in my toy trains. After all, if a lever frame with microswitches and relays and accurately depict absolute block signal operation - why would you do anything else (that is, apart from the upfront but essentially one-off complexity of the wiring table and diagram)? I wonder how much of this is to do with the operational patterns that are built-in to Buckingham, i.e. the fairly prescriptive list of train movements in the timetable which correlate to localised prototype practise? I can imagine if you were just 'playing trains' then you might be frustrated? This is the signalling and DC block (not signaling block!) diagram I have dreamt up. Notes Blocks a, b, c and d are at the buffer ends. Blocks x and y are short dead sections leading into the fiddle yard. "BS" is Belle Sauvage controller, "FY" is the Fiddle Yard controller. Parallel Moves There are only two parallel moves: Up Main main through up throat (vs) and into P3/4 (cg, dh) on BS + P1/2 (e, f) through down throat (rtw) on FY Up Main through up throat (vs) across throat crossover (j) and into P2 (bf) on BS + P1 (e) through down throat (rtw) on FY Technically the loco pocket could be worket at the same time as an up train arrival but both would be dealt with by the single station operator, so these moves would not occur in parallel. Levers and resultant energisation + routing Lever 1 (Platform 1 Starter) powers E,R,T,W to FY Lever 2 (Platform 2 Starter) powers F,J,R,T,W to FY Lever 3 (Platform 3 Starter) powers G,S,T,W to FY Lever 4 (Platform 4 Starter) powers H,S,T,W to FY Lever 5 (Platform 1 Shunt) powers E,R,T,W to BS Lever 6 (Platform 2 Shunt) powers F,J,R,T,W to BS Lever 7 (Platform 3 Shunt) powers G,S,T,W to BS Lever 8 (Platform 4 Shunt) powers H,S,T,W to BS Lever 9 (Loco Shunt) powers I,R,T,W to BS Lever 10 (Advanced Starter) powers Y to FY Lever 18 (P2 Calling On) powers V,S,H to BS Lever 19 (P3 Calling On) powers V,S,G to BS Lever 20 (P4 Calling On) powers V,S,F to BS Lever 21 (Down shunt signal) powers T + Rotary switch Lever 22 (Platform 2 Home) powers V,S,R,F,J,B to BS Lever 23 (Platform 3 Home) powers V,S,G,C to BS Lever 24 (Platform 4 Home) powers V,S,H,D to BS Lever 25 (Distant ) powers X to BS Lever Notes Levers 1-4 and 5-8 are essentially the same, the only difference is which controller they route power to. Levers 18-20 and 22-24 are also essentially the same, the only difference is that the home signals power to the bufferstops, and the calling on signals stop short Additional Switching: One plunger per platform (ae, bf, cg, dh) as per @t-b-g's wiring diagram to allow the station controller to move a loco within platform limits. Rotary switch enabled by Lever 21 which routes power to BS for the following sections depending on what the box communicates via hand signals with the driver Loco Route: R, I Plat 1: R, E Plat 2: R, J, F Plat 3: S, G Plat 4: S. H Plan I'm fairly certain to get my foot in the door these are the correct DC block sections, and so I can bond and isolate them as required physically while laying track, run droppers down to a terminal connector, and take it from there. Wiring Diagram Quite how to convert this into a wiring diagram I do not know...

Thanks Tony, I've watched the video a few times, but with the diagram to hand too I think it would be worth another visit. Confirming that 2 was drawn as pulled, and the confirmation of the use of 40 and the plunger is super. I think it's coming together in my mind - conceptually it seems to be linking each platform road to a subsidiary wiring bus that is then toggled for the arrival or various shunt operations to a local controller, or departure to the next controller seems sane. I'm happy I don't have to do this work (apart from isolating sections) up front though, gosh - feels like there's a a few head scratching weeks of designing circuit diagrams... ps. I got the inspiration for signal-controlled DC blocks from another layout. Oh it was ... Great Western? You wouldn't know it, it's on another forum sorry..