Lacathedrale

Well, I thought the armour of "I'm only going to buy southern region items that were constructed pre-1899" would be infallible, but I ended up picking up a fair number of kits at ExpoEM: LCDR Luggage Van (annoyingly, got given 12mm Mansell wheels instead of 14mm from the Alan Gibson stand - my fault for not double checking) 3x packs of vacuum tubes and 2x packs of coach buffers to replace the damaged Ratio ones, and 1 strip of Eileen's L-section Brass - just to see what I can do with the footboards. (Bloody hell, these coaches are going to cost me about £50 each at this rate.) LCDR Goods Break SER Ballast wagon SER 1864 Coal wagon (If you can believe it, in the whole show there were only three SER/LCDR wagons and two of them were the ones I scratchbuilt earlier in this thread - I decided to double up on this one since they were so proliferant) Parry dumb buffered PO wagon Stephenson Clarke dumb buffered PO wagon I will probably still need parts, but I think now I'll have a complete goods train, and a complete passenger train. With the 0-6-0T SER R-class, these should be enough to demonstrate to myself, if nothing else, that 4mm finescale in some form can be managed. Speaking of 'in some form', I had a really wonderful chat with @t-b-g on his "EM the Manchester Way" stand and I can only encourage anyone reading this who is going tomorrow to seek out Tony to hear about it. One of my major issues with EM was/is that the flangeway just doesn't look right, and Manchester EM tightens it up. I'm sure Tony can describe much more eloquently but as I understand it's a relatively unexplored parallel evolution of the EM/18mm early days. Where some people moved from 18mm to 18.2mm to accomodate RTR wheels/flanges eased out, the Manchester EM standard doubles down on the 18mm gauge, using a wheel flange of the same width but less depth. This avoids the additional lateral slop in the 18.2mm standard, and permits a closer to scale flangeway of 0.8mm: The throat of Tony's "Sheffield Attercliffe" built to Manchester EM standards I think I'll still be pushing on with P4 to see where it takes me, but this looks like a very interesting potential solution should it prove to be too challenging. Other than that, two sad affairs - seeing a non-zero number of kits (which were still in production) marked up higher than their RRP on the s/h stall, and being told to not open the tape seal on a coach kit to check inside because it was "absolutely mint" - only to subsequently open it after purchase and find out it was half scrap etch and half a badly made chassis, and that's it!

With a couple of coats of gloss varnish it's approaching what I'm after - Carmine Lake as used by LNWR and SER @Paul Cram I think I'm going to omit the lining, the pentel pen is too wide and honestly, I'd rather have this done than added to the pile of 'well, that was a learning experience'. For finishing, my plan is to use oils to shade and then buff them off the raised panels, to give that look of "very well maintained but working in a filthy environment" and the variance in glossiness that that lends. Today though: ExpoEM. Wallet, quake in fear.

The roof is a glaze of Vallejo Pale Sand (which is a creamy warm white) over grey primer. Its washed out in this picture due to the direct sunlight but there's some preshading showing through around the roof vents. The body is Vallejo Hull Red with a drop of Vallejo German Camo Dark Grey in it. This is to approximate Carmine Lake. I think it's a little bright and flat now, but with a couple of coats of gloss varnish and then some oils I think it will pass. It will also likely form the base colour for my SER coaches. I used pure valleo German Camo Grey for the chassis (can't you tell?) I've just noticed the wonky door strapping but that'll be a lesson learned for another. I also got myself a 0.5mm Pentel gold paint pen - but I'm not sure if it's going to be fine enough to line this out. I guess we'll have to see!

Thanks Penlan. I'm going to try to finish off the horsebox first, and not try to have too many plates spinning. Once it's done I'll take a view on the coaches. First spray of primer on the horsebox is positive: Seems a bit bananas that this kit has so many brass parts which are fitted AFTER painting and lining - I'm sure it's going to cause problems...

@Penlan is the suggestion to re-fabricate the whole stepboard and support legs, or just use it on the rear face of the existing stepboards to stiffen and provide a locating feature for a new styrene board? I've just put an order into Wizard, and Gosh I think I need to find a handkerchief to staunch the nosebleed from spending so much on brake shoes and yokes, and screw couplings. The screw couplings are required for our horsebox of course. I of course forgot to order vacuum pipes for the coaches, so another order will be required in the meantime, bother. Lastly, I'm giving Valeo 70-985 "Hull Red" a run as the LNWR/SER Carmine Lake. Experimental results due shortly.

Yes, surprisingly flexible but snap at the drop of a hat. One of the bogies on the coach exploded when I tried to remove the wheels to de-rust them. I have given the bodies a good wash in the meantime. Is there a known-good solution for the stepboards at least? I'm not really that fussed about interior detail. There are partitions fitted so I may just paint them brown with the relevant fabric colour underneath.

Does she play with the layout too? I'm expecting a girl, but not holding out much hope for sharing the model railway bug :)

I'm all done but for the handles (to be fitted after painting) and brake hoses and I'm not sure how to handle them - they hook under the headstocks but have basically zero contact area - and if I were to glue or solder them to the van ends then I wouldn't be able to remove the chassis for glazing after painting.... I also picked up some Ratio coaches for about the price of the P4 wheels they came with - lots of bits broken on them I'm afraid :(

Nick, thank you - to be clear though, this would give no S&T indication to the engineman at all about whether a) the points were released, or b) that the route was set correctly for them? i.e. hand signals only? Which era was R/Y vs R/G? Becasse has suggested that a 3-aspect in the 1950's could indicate on the SR that the platform was occuped but movement into it was permitted (effectively replacing the calling-on arm). interesting! I'm reading another book on steam-era signalling and just can't help but think that Semaphores would have more visual impact in this kind of situation....

I've got a little further and fairly happy (needs a fair amount of clean-up still, so please don't judge me too harshly): It needs a good scouring with a fibreglass brush and dousing in cream cleaner - but it's looking positive so far - just the brake hoses, coupling hooks, and roof to finish off.

Fred, I saw your videos on YouTube without realising it was you here :) The problem I have @Nearholmer is that I just cannot seem to reconcile system vs scenic layouts. I want to operate a railway, not a moveable diorama; but I have neither the patience of Job nor the years of Methuselah to see a perfect synthesis of these two opposing desires i.e. a scenically accurate victorian P4 system layout. As 'toy trains', tinplate is immune to considerations of scale distances, train lengths and track geometry - you can't be upset with a dog because it doesn't know algebra. As soon as you cross the rubicon into 'model railways', there is an expectation of realism, and all of the shortcomings of underscale coaches, recessed glazing, and H0 sleeper spacing are placed in sharp relief - to say nothing of four coach trains and geometry thus to support a system.

Are you going to be building soldered PCB construction, soldered and chaired construction, hybrid with easitrak, or easitrak? I found that building turnout on a separate, thick board with everything glued with Evostik glue stick worked best, keeping long tails of rail hanging off to be cut back - then soaked with water to release and fixed to the layout. I had a separate copy of the turnout printed out to firm up position of the various features without having to peek through ties and rails to establish their position!

Has anyone much experience with clockwork 0 gauge? i.e. the Bing/BL stuff, rather than the Hornboy 0-4-0's! I'm debating a venture into the vintage/collectable space again and finding it hard to come to terms with either Dublo or 3-rail/clockwork!

Hi becasse, can I ask for some clarification on this based on your most recent reply? This is what I can gather from your description: 1. Plat 1 starter 2. Road 2 starter 3. Road 3 starter 4. Plat 4 starter 5. Home signal for P1, with feather if heading into P4, yellow for calling on, and miniature yellow* for access to R2/3 6. Red shunt signal for access from Up main to P1 and R3 7. YGYR for access from the aggregate siding/runaround into P1 or R3 Is that correct? The number of three aspect signals doesn't make me all that happy! I'm not clear what the extra Y is for on signal 7, nor why there are no signals at the Lever frame end? Even if the release for the ground frame in the ECR box would lock out all conflicting movements, there would be no positive indication of the point position? If the same release for the ground frame unlocked both the 1-2 runaround and the 3-4 runaround, presumably this would lock 5 on red, so no parallel movements would occur? The more I look at the plan, the more I think that I want to keep semaphores!

Citadel, thank yu for the wonderful instructions. I should clarify those are manufacturer photos, not my own coaches!

Thank you! I don't suppose you have the instruction PDF for the classic/legacy turnouts and diamonds still knocking around?

I'm finally looking to get started with some vintage toy trains - if only because it's going to end up way cheaper than Lego trains for my child in the future! I have basically narrowed it down to clockwork 0 gauge, or Dublo. Excusing the former for the moment, I have the blue book but other than that I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to get started. I want to have at least some broad internal consistency for locomotives and carriages i.e. LNER and BR(E) or LMS and BR(M). In this context, I specifically am after glossy locomotives and ideally tinplate/diecast items only. I'm not all that worried about getting a bargain on some rare item, but I would like a few locomotives that have reasonable running qualities, a couple of rakes of carriages and enough track to put down a layout which would be appealing for more than just tail-chasing. Whether it's to end up on the dining table or around the walls of the garage is to be determined, but I have a few questions if that's OK? For track, is it possible to lay out a double junction with 2x electric points and a diamond crossing? Are electric points reliable? What is running like over the turnouts? What is shunting like? A big part of what I want to include is station pilot working, and a goods yard - so lots of stop/start and back/forth at as low speeds as feasible (what is the lower boundary like?) In general should I expect good running from well maintained (but obviously now aged) 3-rail kit? How will they fare in an attached (i.e. warm, dry and sheltered) garage? Is the steel likely to tarnish? EDIT: Re: point 1, I see this formation so I guess it must be OK? Basically, I love the tinplate aesthetic and I'm happy with the compromises of track geometry/etc. but if a) the steel is going to suffer too much in a garage or b) the locos are better off as shelf queens compared to say, equivalent 1960's and 1970's Triang - then I may need to reassess.

SER R-class tank One of my bearings had an oversized bore since I used a centre drill to start off the hole and the dia was about 2.5mm, so no progress last night (I was too grumpy to head out into the workshop again!) SER Coaches & Livery The SER switched from a somewhat nauseous flesh-and-dried-blood around the mid 1880's to an all-over carmine lake (coincidentally same colour that will be required for the LNWR horsebox). This broadly coincides with the switch from carriages which are directly influenced by horse carriage design: SER Kits 4w Coupe of 1859 in Flesh/Blood Livery To those which are much more like railway carriage we are familiar with: Roxey Mouldings 4w SER Grande Vitesse van of 1888 in (too red) Carmine Livery A boat train of my era is shown below, and looks to consist of new stock - which being the premier service makes sense! The earlier carriages (not specifically the Coupe, but that style of design) were in use on branch line service shorn of their luggage racks as late as 1910, so if I can make it work they would be a characterful addition. Anyway, the relevance for this discussion is that while I was camping over the weekend I managed to snag from eBay, six ratio 4w coaches and one bogie coach kit already equipped with P4 wheels for £50. They are based on GWR coaches and so broadly corespond to later-type SER coaches, so they should sub in well. I will almost certainly need to bodge some duckets or birdcages! More info as it develops...

Hi Wayne, I was wondering when we might be able to expect the N gauge easy-build turnouts back in stock? I'm working through the classic turnout kits but finding all those chairs being threaded a bit mind numbing!

Lets just say with charity, I can understand the shift to integrated chairs... Thankfully, this is 'just' a test, being a spare B6 turnout that got added to the order. I didn't enjoy this one bit, I'm afraid! I need to remove the rails and add a joggle on the straight stock rail, and a set on the curved stock rail - or at least remember to do it with the 'real' ones. At least I remembered to wire up the frog, eh? I used my Rails of Sheffield gift card for a cheeky 50' LMS BG - which is, strictly speaking, a little too early for my period - and placed preorders for a centre code class 37 and class 33 'Burma Star'. I know Burma star was technically based in Hither Green, but it was the first loco I was bought as a kid by my dad - and when I moved to Lee, I used to lay in bed listening to trains go by on the Hither Green to Grove Park stretch on the embankment behind my bedroom. I can't guarantee it was Burma Star but it's about as close to a personal relationship I have with a prototype as I think I'm ever going to have!

I turned up a couple of bearings from a handy bit of 5mm brass rod in my lathe - I didn't think there was much crossover between modelling and model engineering but I guess bearings (and chassis blocks?) are probably the exception. I have spent the morning hanging pictures and the farce has culminated in managing to drill straight into one of the radials which powers my fridge and freezer, so I'm in no headspace for modelling at the moment!

The latest Brighton Circle has a small piece on the signalling of Central Croydon, I understand its genesis was in the discussion I started about it, noted on page 2 of this thread, within the lbscr groups.io group and I'm pleased to see that brains more clever than I have been hard at work ferreting out the particulars. There is a general consensus that the 1868-71 plan rightly shows no signalbox, the junction box at the mainline controlling signals to- and from the station and a ground-frame (rightly not drawn on the OS-map) was responsible for the rest of the working. It is apparent that the first ground-frame was of a particularly antiquated type even at the point of installation, so probably recycled from elsewhere. More interesting is that the Saxby 1b signalbox (of which we have a picture somewhere slightly earlier - Plumpton, for extant example) which appeared on Fair Field was a 40 lever box with 16 levers free - clearly overprovisioned and again almost certainly recycled from elsewhere, potentially one of the various Old Kent Road boxes? As it pertains to physical modelling, nothing much of anything has happened with KS I'm afraid - I needed to clean up my office so the baseboard has ended up in my (wife's) shed and the stock is back in boxes. I'm keeping a weather eye open for relevant N gauge stock for the layout and trying hard to sit on my hands for the PGA wagons that are forthcoming. I really need JHA's if I'm going to do the aggregate plant. One larger development is that with the imminent sale of my car, the garage will be free and a much more suitable place for a layout, so I am considering my options there. Either a) to re-site and potentially re-scope KS to include Fair Field (and the sidings, signalbox and signals which are so important to the plan) as originally desired, or b) to see what can be made manifest in P4 in that space. For the sake of illustration, a re-scoped KS might look like this: Katharine Street v3 The original two boards are stretched to 900mm x 400mm each, to allow me to depict the station forecourt (which consists of 2/3 of the only available photographs of the station, so prudent to include!) and to allow the scale width of Katharine Street and a small portion of 'behind the bushes' of Queen's Gardens park to be represented. The secret weapon of this plan, however, is shown below: Katharine Street v3 with Fair Field extension A 1200mm x 400m board could plug in between the two to depict Fair Field, it's very notional at this point in track design. The sandpit of the 1900's prototype is translated to a modern aggregate depot. My supposition is that London Concrete/Day Aggregates sited here instead of at Purley. The loading shed could connect through to the fiddle yard? It could also represent the 1930's-era permanent way depot with sundry track panels and items strewn around. Most importantly for me, it can depict the Saxby 2B signalbox and the relevant starter signals for the station and junction.

Very interesting! These bearings? https://cm3models.co.uk/alan-gibson-4mm-scale-main-frame-bearings-2mm-bore-part-no-4m65-3275-p.asp Opened out presumably using a tapered reamer of some sort, I guess? Is it retained somehow or just a tight fit? Does the bore of the bearing need any modification or is it simply a case of opening the hole out enough for an interference fit on the bearing, placing the bearings on the axle and pushing the assembly in? I'm back from a weekend camping so was just about to get started again!

Wonderful, and some fantastic inspirational photos. I have a feeling my next layout is going to involve a good deal of london brick, so keeping a weather eye on the developments here.