Lacathedrale

Are those the Dapol easi-shunt couplings? I'm slowly building up a collection of N gauge BR(s) items which have the Arnold/Rapido-style couplers and automatic uncoupling (ideally delayed) is very much on my mind. All of my stock is new(ish) - how much of a faff is it to swap the couplings out? Simple as a push-pull into the NEM pocket? Dapol and Farish?

Thank you Tony - I'm going to strip back both this and the other carriage in due course and do the relevant conversions of the ends, handles, windows, etc. but they're proving good practise in the meantime. I'm still not sure about the mapping pen after my failure with the (presumably more straightforward) easi-liner - can you please link me an example so I can try it? You seemed to manage to get it only on the angled part of the panel recess, rather than the panel itself - more practise? I think if I give it an oil wash (I'll test with half the carriage just to see) it might compromise the ability to see them, though I guess the lack of lining never really hurt @Mikkel , did it? What period did you model them in? Presumably with the IEG Terrier, pre-1903? I've got the LBSCR Carriage books but since these are only test colours I've not made any effort at all to convert them yet.

Burnt Sienna is looking more promising - I'll put an oil wash on one side of the carriage to see how that looks too:

Thanks all for the tips!

No argument with that - I think I'll probably use individual canopies - a slate overall roof for 4' of the 4'6" would make a very limited viewing angle ;)

I had considered these, but the smallest terminal block connectors only go down to 20 gauge wire, and 16/0.2mm is 22 gauge - do you think this will work? @Gilbert @Miss Prism - I figured soldering underneath a baseboard would be unpleasant, but I guess they ARE technically movable baseboards.

I'm looking to get wiring supplies so when my baseboards arrive, I'm able to get started sooner rather than later. The only layouts I've built in recent memory have been DCC, but this one will be for now DC. I am planning on using 16/0.2mm droppers no longer than about a foot each*, into a terminal block of sorts. My main question is what kind of connectors/terminal strip should I be using for the 16/0.2mm wire? It seems that it's just on the edge of being able to use crimp connectors, and normal terminal strips don't work with wire that small. Any ideas? * It is my understanding that 16/0.2mm can handle up to about 1.5A and this should be sufficient for any modern DCC sound locomotive if I change to DCC in future. Many thanks, William

Really lovely, Tony - I've got a fair few 4w coaches from Hattons and Hornby, but it's good to know I can make something of those Ratio ones. Maybe I can paint those umber/white also - which would further blur the lines between the liveries and the coach types? May I please ask where you got the transfers, and if the grab handles are home made or etched? And did you rebuild the ends flat? My colour is way more chocolate than you've used, and the one from Hornby is quite red - I should work probably work on trying to get them consistent!

I've just read the first major section of Vivien Thompson's Eastbourne saga in Railway Modeller. Gosh, what a layout! Having been there recently for a trip to Hampden Park I'm so very impressed with what was achieved there. That, plus Ferring has made me think long and hard about siting my railway away from Brighton town, but I think realistically a Mocatta-style facade and platform canopies like the pre-1880 Brighton station is probably going to be the most effective scenery for the buffer-stop ends of the layout. Here's a shot of the construction of the new overall roof in 1882, showing the original canopies built around 1840: They were 250' long with wrought and cast iron frames and slate roofs so I could model them to scale, but I'm not sure if an opaque overall roof makes sense. On the left is my little parcel of earth, Platforms 8, 9, 10 and the Dock for the East Coastway. On the West Coastway Route is Portslade, another Mocatta-designed building just like Brighton - but more in-scale with my layout. Build dead-scale Portslade is 15" wide. The following shot illustrates the road-side, but it is still extant and measurements/drawings can easily be made: The original Brighton building was split in half - two platforms for (what would become) the West Coastway and two for London with separate waiting rooms, offices, etc. for each. In my case it would be split the other way! Baseboards I've just gotten a message from Allen at G&H that the baseboards are ready to be cut, huzzah! Power & Control I haven't helped myself, getting in quite a twist with reverse-block DC wiring, but I think with @Regularity's suggestions it may be less onerous than either traditional block DC or DCC: The layout uses two controllers: one station, one fiddle-yard. A common -ve return is used, and +ve feeds are applied to the up main, down main, and 'old turntable' road through a rotary switch to the station controller. There are isolated sections for the platforms, loop, and loco pilot siding. Turnouts are insulated electrofrog, but using an additional pole on the frog SPDT we route +ve connections from the toe to the chosen exit route, just like the old power-routing insulfrog points. This means the routes are self-powering and self-isolating. Signals are operated mechanically as normal, a microswitch in the lever frame makes or breaks the contact to the relevant station block. The exception is the Advanced Starter, which overrides the connection of the Up main from the rotary switch mentioned before, directly to the FY controller. That's it!

I spent some time yesterday painting up an example Ratio coach body in various shades of Mahogany, but they all bloody turned out the same after I then washed with Burnt Sienna and Black: You can see on this side there is VMC Mahogany on the left, and VAL Heavy Sienna on the right - probably only useful to give tonal variation, and it was only after being finished I realised that probably the only home-built coach I can apply this livery to is the 48' All Third. I think it would be a stretch to think it was still in Mahogany ~8 years after the livery change of 1903, but hopefully will create a link between the rigid and bogie stock and illustrate that the colour scheme changes are temporal rather than along structural lines.

Period I had previously hand-waved the era from around 1903-1913,but happily I'm able to zero in quite nicely on a period for the layout - now more concretely at 1911. My reasoning is that firstly, slotted signals were gone by 1910 which means any signalling I build will potentially suitable for early grouping, secondly that the Marsh H2 Atlantic only arrived around 1911. Thirdly that it is prior to the abolishment of 2nd Class on the LBSCR (1912) and lastly, that it permits the type of both wide and narrow duckets on brake vehicles. Signals With the date fairly firmly decided, signals are much more straight forward - posts (and gantries) are solid wood, boards are front-mounted red-orange with a white stripe. Calling-on signals and Shunt-ahead signals by this point are both the same style of subsidiary ringed arm, and I can place all shunting signals on the ground, even adjacent posts/gantries. 54' Carriages @t-b-g if I remember correctly Mr Denny had an article on converting the Tri-ang Clerestories to GCR coaches in RM and I seem to remember one of the changes was the pivoting arrangement to the bogie to reduce the ride height, as well as scale wheels? I'm studying Terry Gough's articles and they've required a bit of re-reading but I think I've distilled it down to the following (the ones I actually need are highlighted in green): 2 Tri-ang Brake 3rds can make: 6 Compt. Brake 3rd D139 5 Compt. Brake 3rd with Luggage D74 5 Compt Brake 2nd with Luggage D129 8 Compt. 3rd D140 2 Tri-ang Composites can make: 8 Compt. Tri-composite D151 The D74 is actually a much more common vehicle than the D129, but I already have an embarassment of brake thirds and frequently bogie trains ran with 6w brake carriages - maybe it can come later. 48 Carriages While I'm at it, I may as well note the Ratio MR coaches are a bit less fertile ground: Ratio MR Suburban All First 7 Compt as D60 (converted Suburban to Mainline 7 compt. All First) Ratio MR Suburban All 3rd 8 Compt. as D67 Ratio MR Suburban Brake 3rd 6 Compt. as D63 (add new end duckets) I'll tackle the Tri-ang carriages first I think!

"Finescale" With regard to the preceding conversation I think I am living proof about the push-pull of accuracy vs. pragmatism. 90% of the layout can be built with proprietary or converted items, and then scratch- and home- built buildings and stock can slowly be introduced once a critical mass has been gained. I've never actually reached this point before, so it seems a sensible choice! The choice in track gauge and standards is obviously a trade-off and if this ends up being a major issue, then v2 of this layout might be implemented in EMSF with that and other lessons learned - the stock, buildings, etc. could remain largely the same. I quote a 1950's RM:

That's literally what I'm talking about right now?

@Nick C Yes, much like the water tower and signal box resin models, my goal is to get everything looking and operating impressionistically, and then it can be a case of working backwards with more particular models. I don't suppose the Ratio 4w coaches could be used for anything useful for LBSCR? I have half a dozen that were going to form an SER rake for the LCDR EMSF layout, but are currently just in a box. It helps that the Billinton 48' coaches and the Marsh 54' coaches (thank you for the clarification @Nick Holliday I was getting my CMEs mixed up!) can both be approximated reasonably with cut-and-shuts. At £10-20 per coach plus the work required, it's a good deal less than the etched equivalents (£60 plus wheels). It's not all about money - I'm much more comfortable with styrene than brass, and I want to get things going before I collect my pension. @Compound2632 the Triang Clerestories are exactly what I'm talking about bashing into the 54' coaches mentioned. This is the author's shot of them in action on Charford: I know that grainy B&W will hide a multitude of sins, but looks good to me. Each compartment is the correct length, the coach is the correct length and has the correct ends and roof profile. re: Ferring, it's a beautiful layout - I believe I saw it at an exhibition a couple of years ago. It's definitely to a more reasonable scale length than this layout will be! I keep toying with the idea of re-siting the layout as either another seaside terminus, or a market town - but I think I can kick the can down the road, nothing yet needs to be decided.

Track Plan Here's a reminder of the physical, rather than logical layout: Brighton Victoria / Wickham Heath v1.3 - Double Slip on Carriage Siding Exit I have caved and replaced the single slip with a double, just so that I don't have to set up a single blind siding (aka trap point) for the pilot siding. Luckily, PECO Bullhead Single Slips are still well sought after so just a bit of annoying admin to buy one and sell the other. Lever Frame The light green area in the trackplan above is the approximate footprint of a 30 lever frame which is about the requirement for this layout. My current thoughts are to bolt a 2" square wooden base to the front of the layout tall enough to support the future addition of interlocking. This should place the crank for the frame near the underside of the baseboard. The S4 Levers have a built in SPDT microswitch, and the frog is on a unifrog point is very small indeed (about half an inch?). I could probably get away with the built-in microswitch switch initially being used only for the power routing and leaving the frog dead. I can prove out the entire thing that way without actually hooking up any cranks/rods or frog switching. R/C Plane Cables vs Cranks and Rods I'll do some digging on them. I'm not sure how happy I am with an additional £3.50-£5 per lever (that's another £100 for the frame). The distance from the most remote turnout to the frame is 2'6" - 3'. Maybe it'll be a case of experimentation. I'll check out Trevor's articles too - is there a handy index I can use to locate them? Mr. Denny also wrote a fair bit in his Buckingham books so I can review those. 54' Billinton Carriages My re-read of RM is finally bearing fruit - a series of articles detailing the cut and shut of the Triang Clerestory coaches into the Billinton LBSCR 54' bogie coaches. As per my 'train requirements' I could do with a few of these so have put a sneaky bid on eBay for a few to chop up. It requires a new roof and ends, partitions, and ventilators. In theory the bogies should be 2mm shorter but I think I can live with that, but I'll need to put proper wheels in them. 48' Stroudley Carriages Similarly, the Ratio MR coaches are pretty much 'close enough' for LBSCR coaches. The All 3rd is a dead ringer (albeit needing a smaller 8' bogie to replace the 10' one) and the rest are more approximate, but no less than the Hornby and Hattons generic coaches. If it's good enough for Mr. Denny, it's good enough for me.

Ah, I was actually going to look at the Scalefour lever frames - they're the same price as GEM and have the switch compatibility built in. Is there any reason to go for one over the other? Can you please link me the kind of control cables you're talking about? (this kind of thing or specifically model air?) I'm going to need to have some brass rod between the lever and the control rodding for the other electrical switching whatever happens, right?

Actuation - Mechanical or Electronic? I'm trying to figure out what I can do before the boards get here - still a couple of weeks away I think. I figure with all the energy that's gone into designing the signalling and turnout actuation I may as well get on with the bloody making of it! The only meaningful question is whether or not it results in mechanical or electronic actuation of the various items. All the turnouts and signals for the layout (save the ground frame) are on a single board, so mechanical operation jumps out at me. Of course though, if I do that then while perfect from home it's going to be very tough to exhibit because yours truly will have to be sat facing away from the punters in the middle of the layout to operate it! With a 30+ lever frame I'm not sure that making it mechanically pluggable is going to work. Unless someone has a bright idea, I think I'm going to go with mechanical actuation - the idea of bloody servos, microcontrollers, etc. is already giving me a headache. Electronics - General I do apologise to the other readers of this thread who have no interest at all in the electronic pedantry that's going on at the moment but I think we've basically got it. Though the ground frame may be prototypical, since I need to include a king lever for it (and will also need the actual levers for the turnouts) I'm only really saving one lever by not having it controlled from the box. The 220yd-350yd limit for rodding is well within reach from the signal box location - this is in place at Brighton in the period I'm modelling so is at least prototypical? Electronics - Shunt Toggle for Loop/Carriage/Turntable Shunting Makes sense despite my desire to go signals-only. Once a train has pulled past the crossover on P3, signal M is returned to normal and the entire road is dead. Turn a monty-python style pointing finger toggle from 'Normal' to 'Shunt' and it disconnects the BV controller feed from the normal power routing and connects it directly to the loop/dock/turntable/carriage siding block. This allows power to flow to the tip of P3 ahead of the runaround. When the movement is all finished, you can reset the toggle and pull off Signal U to exit to the up main via the BV controller. NB: The carriage sidings are not accessible without shunting back from the Up main via F5, but keeping all of those roads in the same block simplifies the wiring. Happily there's no meaningful danger if any other signals or routes are thrown while the Shunt toggle is on, since they would all linking to the BV controller connection that's now switched out to the loop. Since Shunt cuts off the routing to the main lines, movements across the throat will stall once they get to the (dead) Up main (Send Bell code 3-1!) and the Shunt toggle would need to be restored and the relevant signal (U or V) pulled. The shunt toggle would need to lock the loop exit C open somehow, otherwise it would be possible to pull W (which electronically switches Up Main and the selected Platform road (via the starter) from BV to FY) and have conflicting control along the route. I guess there is a good deal of mechanical interlocking that can be implemented at a later date! Most crucially I'm going to have track feeds from the toe of each turnout which will be isolated from each other, as will the various dead-end roads - so I can amend this pattern or indeed, convert to DCC immediately.

For the rotary switch, is it not a case of having an addition feed from the controller through the switch to either P1,2,3, Loop & Carriage siding, which is broken by lever F? I think for miniature arm (not disc) U and V, I would simply say that they always shunt via the up main and cut out the need for the extra levers? If we take the rotary switch for the BV controller out of the equation, then: The throat electrical connections are made by additional switch attached to turnout motion as before Signal F (with some kind of route setting) makes the relevant road made with the up line to the BV controller Signals KLMNOPQ when pulled off make the down main (and attached FY traverser track), and the relevant platform and connect to BV controller Signals H*RSTUV make the up main and relevant platform and connect to the BV controller Signals XYZ make the up main and relevant platform to the BV controller Signal W to make the traverser track feed and swap up main feed to FY controller (i.e. in concert with XYZ or after train from UV has been brought to half infront of it) * H = Loco shunt signal How will power get to the loop track (let's say, we're running around a train) before it's signalled for exit via UV? @phil_sutters thank you kindly for that link, I will review shortly!

I guess the main limitation is that you need a rotary controller for BV as the first operation of any movement, rather than purely using signals. I would like to figure it out with relays and/or switches too, for completeness - I'll try to reverse engineer the Bodmin/Denny version also. My point re: the advanced starter meaning that the next block's controller asserts control over everything from the platform up to the FY?

It's all becoming a bit more clear - if I understand, you are suggesting the frog polarity is changed and simultaneously the adjoining track on the selected route becomes electrically bonded to this toe of this turnout, both using a single DPDT? It's starting to make sense in my head but I'm still having trouble how it would work in practise. I have illustrated a crossover with feeds on the right hand side: Turnout B is set to the straight route. The frog is set appropriately, and the adjoining straight track is connected to the toe of the turnout. Feed next to B is set to active and so, the route across the 'down main' OK. The diverging route leads to a turnout that is not powered at all, nor is the intermediate track section: With the crossover active, the intermediate section is now bonded to the toe of B (which is energised due to the feed) With A switched, the connection between the toe and heel is created and powers the turnout. The block afterward is a platform, and its power is connected via a signal instead. Can the FY assert control of the entire up feed when W is pulled off? It would mean the FY could drive the trains all the way from platform to traverser. I still think I would want a rotary switch for use in conjunction with F, rather than 5 separate levers - but would happily include FPL with interlocking at a later date. I'm exploring the system and trying to find any potential drawbacks - I'm not sure I see any? Why would you use relays/ICs when this option appears to be much simpler? Surely there's a drawback somewhere...

Underlay? The station layout is (obviously) mostly flat, with the exception of the retaining wall and embankment behind it, but I think it would be nice to get a little undulation on the ground level. I'm wondering if it makes sense to use WS underlay (presuably with copydex, as seems to be the vogue at the moment?) rather than pinning straight to the baseboards? Alternatively, some thick cork sheeting (~6mm?). Any suggestions gladly taken. Wiring, Signalling I have been in deep conversation with @Regularity over email about the signalling and power routing for this layout, very heavily inspired by past conversations with @t-b-g and Buckingham GCR in general. I fully acknowledge that DCC would make this all very trivial, but (at the moment) I am finding it hard to feel anything but mild distaste at it. This may vary when the rubber hits the road. (Simon has put together a very interested proposal on using turnouts to route power but I have evidently been exposed to too much leaded petrol and I'm finding it hard to grasp yet. He's helping me a huge amount and I'm sure in due course it will become clear) In the interim the essential premise of this first version is thus: Block sections are dead by default Point levers/switches just move the blades Signal levers energise relevant block sections to the relevant controller The relevant controller is the block ahead So, for example if a train is sitting at Platform 1 and is ready to depart, the Station operator will pull the relevant levers to set the turnouts and then the platform starter. This last movement will energise the platform road, the route through the throat, and the up main - to the FY operator, who can drive the train back into the traverser. Each lever will energise different sections. I have shamelessly re-used Simon's drawing below, overlaid with my thought on the block sections (coloured strips), hopefully he can find it in his heart to forgive me: Legend On the approach/departure lines: I - Distant (for illustration only) J - Outer Home (used by Station Operator) W - Advanced Starter, FY Distant (latter for illustration only) On the gantry: KLM (Platform 1,2,3 Homes) NOP (Platform 1,2,3 Calling-On) Q (Loop/Siding Shunt) F1-5 (Shunt signal from Up Main, it is a single shunt signal, but is used in conjunction with a rotary dial to indicate which of Loco, P1,P2,P3,Loop is to be energised On the platforms, loops and sidings: XYZ (Platform 1,2,3 Starters) RST (Platform 1,2,3 Shunt signals) U (Loop yellow shunt signal) V (Carriage siding shunt signal) % (King lever for the loop ground frame) In addition to the above, there are momentary contact switches to energise the whole of a given platform to bypass the signal control to allow the station operator to directly energise the full length of the platform (only), to allow a train locomotive to move to the end under the signals. How it actually works (Inspired by @Regularity as he used a narrative method to describe the operating pattern quite effectively) Train arrival to P3 - Station operator pulls off C, D, M and J which energises the pink, dark purple, aqua and dark aqua sections to the their controller and they can drive the train from the FY onto the layout. When complete, the signals are returned to normal. Pilot loco couples to inbound stock - Assuming the pilot is on the pocket, the station operator pulls off G and F, H which energises the loco spur and dark & light blue section. These are returned to normal. The operator then pulls B, F and sets the shunt signal rotary to F4 and pulls it off. This energises the dark & light blue section, the purple section and only the light aqua section (the end of the platform holding the train loco is still isolated). When this move is complete, signals are restored. Pilot loco uses up main to shunt to carriage sidings - Operator pulls off B, F and then shunt signal T. (Note: This results in the same sections being energised to the same controller - If this was a train departure, instead of T the operator would have used Z and the control would be routed to the FY controller). The pilot is now on the up main. The operator pulls off C, D, and F5 and can shunt into the carriage sidings before restoring the signals. At some point while the pilot was doing this move, a momentary contact button can be depressed so the train engine can come to rest at the starting signal. Train loco departs P3 for service away from the station - Operator pulls off B, F, Z, and W - this energises the same sections as the shunt move earlier, but past the Advanced Starter into the FY, and control is granted to the FY operator controller to take the train engine away for servicing. Some further notes The king lever for the ground frame may not be prototypical, but essentially forms a combined signal and crossover lever which energises the end of P3 and the loop/siding block to the station controller. I think the turntable road may require a red shunt signal also? I will be using [black, -ve, rear] as common wiring, and since I am using unifrog points this will mean insulating all the [red, +ve, front] rail joins between sections. Questions I could write code which would do this fairly easily, but that logic in electronics is currently beyond me. I have glanced through the Bodmin articles in MRC and I get a broad idea, but I'm not yet sure how to translate the matrix that is required to determine the behaviour of each lever (i.e. Lever 1 routes power to section blue/green/red to the station controller, Lever 2 routes power to section orange/green/red to the FY controller) into an electrical schematic.... any ideas? :)

Not my best work, honestly - but this one rather than being a keeper is going straight on to a buyer who was very happy with it as it is - he didn't even want an oil wash!

I had a Roco WLANmaus and I found the wireless annoying to deal with, although I was using a Digikeijs DR5000 which seems to be of many talents but master of none which probably didn't help.

I'm sure they're very usable, but this looks like a Mattel toy from the 1980s:

I've decided to pre-shade the van, which is quite over the top. The idea is that a translucent base coat will have some variation in tone when it goes on over the top and the effect will be much more subtle: