Edwardian

All very civilised when I last viewed it, but now it has vanished. What happened?

Surprisingly calm, all things considered. Thank you I take it that was your excellent letter in July's RM. Well said. The organ could do worse than feature Birlstone, or a Gentleman's Light Sporting Train Set.

Quite a transformation. The green looks good for Goods Green, what paint did you use? I like what you are doing to that brake van. Gives me an idea ....

Put like that, it seems all the more desirable to encourage Oxford to get the shape right!

Darn, wish I'd thought of that; would have saved an awful lot of typing

I remain sceptical, and it would hardly be typical, and presumably no good save for the very late '30s. Good for you. But, nothing to 'miss out on' for the pre-War Modeller I would have thought. Missed opportunity to make a pre-War model, that's all. Well, thanks again for the thought, but what you plan does not really cut it for the '30s Modeller, so can't cut it for me. I will explain why I feel that your decision to exclude the 'as built' option is so regrettable. Once upon a time everyone modelled the Great Western, 'sometime' in the '20s and '30s', though not always with a great degree of accuracy! People liked BLTs and Ashburton seemed to be modelled so many times that it has become one of the most enduring clichés of the hobby. In those far off days, most of the layouts were Great Western, as opposed to Western Region, because the 1950s-1960s had yet to become so overwhelmingly dominant as a period. Of course, that dominance cannot last, so what will you do then with all your black and Brunswick Green locomotives? You might wish you'd helped to foster interest in more than just the terminal decade of the steam age. Anyway, back to the happy 1970s and 1980s when people still modelled pre-Nationalised steam. This gave Ashburtons a problem. The classic Bulliver, of a hundred Albums published in the '70s, was a, by then, 14XX with a steel-bodied auto-coach, trundling through those innocent pre-Beeching summers of the late '50s. Actually, pre-War the real Ashburton had converted railmotors, still featuring most of their original panelling, and, until 1936, the branch passenger engine seems invariably to have been a 517. The 4800 class itself was not introduced until 1932 and the 517s took time to replace. I may be wrong, but, aside from a brace sent to Cornwall early on, I think the Ashburton one was the first seen anywhere west of Exeter. So, if you have a fictional 'Ashburton' the 517 is much more representative of the pre-War scene. Realistically, we are not going to get a RTR 517 anytime soon (no career under BR, you see), so Hatton's 4800 was the pre-War Modeller's Great Green Hope. Meanwhile, back in the day, even if you restricted yourself to a 4800, you were stuck with Airfix's 14XX. Not a great model by today's standards, but good for its time. Rather better than a contemporary Hornby 'Jinty'. It's now hard to remember just how rubbish RTR was before Airfix and Mainline. The problem was that the 14XX could never be accurate for all those 'sometime between the wars' GWR BLTs that seemed to grace the RM with quite an astounding frequency in those days. The model was used all the same, complete with its top-feed, with bunker steps, cut out cab steps and cab to roof handrail, all of which appear to have been modifications undertaken from the early '40s. I accept that there is some debate as to whether any mid-to-late '30s 4800s were delivered with cut out cab steps and cab to roof handrail, but I am not convinced. Any reliably dated example is likely to be very late in the '30s and unlikely to typify the class. I model 1935, so that's useless to me. Modelling 1935 and backwards is, BTW, is real historic railway modelling. Apart from the top-link 4-6-0s, surprisingly little of reasonable quality has ever been available RTR. This is why the Hornby Colletts are such a boon (all praise to them for those) and the humble branch auto-train has never been available in an accurate pre-war guise. Having waited decades for a pre-war 4800 I am gutted to find that, despite the implication of the 'Great Western' and Roundel variants, they are unlikely to prove accurate for the inter-war Modeller, as they feature bunker steps, cut out cab steps and cab to roof handrail. The fact that they are, nevertheless, depicted in pre-war liveries makes it worse, because, as a couple of people have already indicated, they'll buy the model anyway, despite such inaccuracies. That's up to them, of course, but I'm inclined to vote with my wallet and decline to accept the compromises so often foisted on the pre-War Modeller; '40s, '50s, and '60s Modellers insist upon a high degree of accuracy. I really don't see why '30s Modellers should not insist upon the same standards. Hattons Dave has said that "Class did appear with 'Great Western' lettering and with cab steps". I remain sceptical that such examples would represent the pre-War condition, let alone the mid-'30s. Certainly such a beast would be untypical of the class at that time to say the least. The fact that the decision not to offer the class 'as built' was for economic reasons is not any consolation, and does not make me any the less ticked off, not least because the Hattons model will kill-off the possibility of anyone making a pre-War variant for at least a generation. So, thanks for nothing, Hattons. But there we are. Future Pre-war 'Ashburtons' will be as inaccurate as ever.

Thanks for the information, Dave, but you've just lost a sale. Once more the pre-WW2 Modeller is knifed.

Has anyone "told Dave", or indeed, Hattons? One possibility is that they have produced samples from just one set of tooling and tried all liveries on it, so it may simply be a non-issue. Better safe than sorry, I would have thought. I ask this simply because I was surprised to find that I was the first person (according to Oxford) to have asked them about the apparently incorrect belpaire firebox profile. This had been visible on pictures of the sample released in January. I cottoned on quite late, but it has been debated here amongst the cognoscenti for sometime, without, apparently, Oxford learning of the issue. Hattons and DJH are probably on top of this, but we can't assume that. I volunteer the Mikes, because they clearly knows what they're talking about! EDIT: I don't have the necessary RCTS volume, and I cannot claim to have made a comprehensive survey, but I have never seen any evidence of the steps (or top feeds) being added pre-war. As has been said, the class was only introduced in 1932, so the thought that a major rebuild would have happened to many, if any, of the class by September 1939 seems unlikely. If is had, might one not have expected a repaint? At best, Hattons' samples are not representative of the pre-war state of the class. more likely, it's just wrong.

Welcome Charlie and thank you for the comments. You have tipped up at a rather fallow period, but things will start to pick up before too long, I trust.

Thanks to your all for the support. I have not determined to become a total recluse, I just am a but stymied at the moment. Keeping active, that's the thing, but better if that's something that helps us on a practical level, which doesn't really leave room for railways. Kevin, you are precisely right. We actually bought the place with my daily London commute in mind, and it worked supremely well for that. Peterborough is only 20 minutes away. You can get the commuter trains, Great Northern I think it is now, as far as there, but I rarely took them because the intercity trains (GNER then East Coast now Virgin East Coast) more or less all stop at P'boro. At commuting times they are at 20 minute intervals and when they don't stop at Stevenage the journey time can be as little as 48 minutes. WIFI, plug socket, buffet, comfy chair with armrest. And I'd invariably beat one of my partners to the office, who took a cattle train from Croydon each morning. I am sure that I would have got to The Smoke faster than those who have moved to Huntingdonshire for the outer commuting stations, like Huntingdon and St Neots, because they only have the stoppers, which are always overtaken by the East Coast services. If you are a London or Herts commuter and you want a commutable rural idyll and a hell of a lot of bang for your buck compared with your local market, it makes a lot of sense, but I really don't think the east side of Peterborough is on anyone's map. It's crazy. All the posh agents, Savills etc, just say they don't cover the area and the local agents sell mainly to the local market, and it's not going to sell to a local. People just search the area they want, so how do you get them to look at an area they haven't yet come across? Northroader, thank you, and you're still allowed to post interesting help, advice, pictures, and suggestions!

Lest anyone thinks me rude, neglectful, or should think that I am simply no longer interested in this project, I am afraid that things at my end are going from bad to worse. There will be some end to it, no doubt, but in the meantime, I have neither the time not the heart to do much modelling or posting. Please continue to talk amongst yourselves; I will certainly return to CA, and I hope that is sooner rather than later, and it would be nice to be able to come back to a topic that has not wholly died in the meantime. When I resume working on this project, I will need the solace it provides. Thanks to you all; your most valued contributions and encouragement have not been in vain and will result in a successful project, I promise you that! In the meantime, nil desperandum, and if you do know of anyone interested in a very keenly priced Cambridgeshire farmhouse, do please let me know!

Stubby, it's the Great Western; ours is not to reason why

You'll be saying that Turkey doesn't belong to the Turks if you pursue that line of reasoning. Or worse, that Pembrokeshire doesn't belong to the English either .... I'll get my coat

Yes, I assumed C2 because of your period, and Russell has a couple of profile drawings in 4mm that I can send. Will try later today. I have no idea how close your donor gets to 5' drivers at 8' centres. Nick's point is an important one, however, because the C2X appears to have a large diameter boiler, at a higher pitch, which certainly more resembles the bulk of your donor. The key is whether you can fit the motor etc of your donor inside the slighter C2 profile. A C2X means, what, 1908 at the earliest? So I assume this would not be ideal for you.

I probably have an outline profile drawing in Russell's volume, any use?

"Mr Anderson ..."

The Suits are upon us. A good option for the 'Modern Image' Modeller: http://www.shapeways.com/product/9T9YKSBJ7/1-72-man-in-suit-set?optionId=56330047 In which case, shouldn't they be in subfusc?

All good stuff. Particularly like the job on the wagon kit. Look forward to seeing how the C2 comes along. Have you drawings for the class?

This may be just a question of the sample tooling not matching the livery, but shouldn't the earlier versions lack the bunker-side steps/ I would have thought the wartime and post-war examples would have had top-feeds.

Big fan of through coaches. Great example was that pre-Grouping layout by a chap who liked building coaches. I am sorry that I cannot remember either the name of the gentleman or of his layout. It was a small town terminus with the station building based upon the L&Y Wigan Walgate, though that is not a terminus but was on an over-bridge, so can be presented as a terminus. Anyway, I seem to recall he took full advantage of through coaches to add variety. Aha, well one of the prototype projects I'd love to tackle is Savernake, both the M&SWJ and GW stations, and before grouping, so none of this High Level and Low Level nonsense; genuine confusion as to which station your going to or from should remain the order of the day! I particularly like the madness of maintaining both stations at Marlborough for a decade after Grouping! I love both the Brunel 'chalet' style of the original 1840s Berks & Hants, and the distinctive architecture of the 1860s Berks & Hants extension. The classic surviving example of the former is in fact a branch station on the way to Basingstoke, which is a good example to adopt for joining the South Western.

Then you should model Churchward-Collett era GWR! That is a splendid range of companies you have there! Not sure where my LSWR Jubilee or my Bachmann C Class (no, not the Full Wainwright version [sigh]) would do in Scotland, but still...

Yes, I forgot to mention this. It seems that the lower segment of the boiler, along with the 2 leading splashers and the running plate may be in metal/mazak or whatnot. That may have implications for versions that should have a different boiler diameter or lower pitch, but is, obviously, not an issue for the boiler-smoke-box handrail, which Oxford has said were hand fitted to the sample and do not show how they will look when fitted with their jig, and they aim to get this right, they say. So, again, while Oxford may or may not ultimately get this aspect right, it is not possible to conclude that they will not based upon the pictures you have so far seen!

I agree,and have long since concluded that the two best places to model for maximum variety were Carlisle and Addison Road! Neither noted rural idylls, however. And if you think I'm hand-building the point work for a major city station ............ [snorting noises ensue]!!!!!! Ox & Berks is interesting - LNWR to Oxford, GC & GW Joint, LSWR to Windsor and SECR with LSWR to Reading. I have no notion of the geography in these parts, which are quite foreign to me as a 50% Midland-50% Northern chap, but I imagine that there are all sorts of reasons against extending the GW Henley on Thames branch north, via Watlington, now a junction and also linked to Wallingford, while we're about it, and up to join a line to Oxford, or for LNWR, SECR, LSWR and GCR to use it as well! Perhaps the Midland and the GNR would like to find a way to work through from Luton and the GER from Hertford whilst we're about it! There is a limit to our ability to render the implausible plausible!

I suspect that yours is a premature judgment and I would hope that it would not be proved correct. What you suggest is obvious is, I'm afraid, not obvious to me, but, of course, I may be missing something here. There are, no doubt, some strange obsessives out there whom we refer to by the much kinder appellation of "collectors", but I don't think we are talking about Oxford Rail customers as people who might want everyone of a hundred different liveried 1960s Bedford Ice Cream Vans, or whatever. On the whole I think Oxford Rail customers will likely prove to be no different from Blue Box and Red Box customers, with varying degrees of need for prototype fidelity. Much as I deplore, and increasingly come to resent, money-spinning 'fast ones' like squeezing a stream of inappropriate wagon liveries out of your groaning RCH 1923 7 Plank toolings, everyone does this. No one says, as a result, "don't buy Blue Box or Red Box because they have no regard for accuracy" (well, some people might, but you know what I mean!). Making a toy train range doesn't make sense for Oxford or for anyone else. I am not sure the market particularly need a second Railroad range (much as this range has its uses). There is also no point in making model railway locomotives if they are to be model locomotives, only not quite good enough compared with the opposition. I am bound to assume, therefore, that Oxford are making every reasonable effort to produce accurate models of good quality. If you have spotted an inaccuracy on an early sample or image of the Southern Radial, I would encourage you to contact Oxford about it. In the case of the Dean Goods, there is one criticism that it appears possible to discount, that of the of the willy-nilly application of every conceivable livery to the same tooling, because Oxford has stated that the tooling "suite" will allow for variants. I take that to mean physical differences, as opposed to livery changes. Of course, Oxford might not get the combination right every time, but provided that a given model looked like a particular Dean Goods at some time in its life, you can go out and buy the right etched number plates. And those who can't be bothered to research a match will presumably content with any variant the manufacturer offers them. If there are any queries or points of concern about the Dean, really I think it is best for all concerned to raise them asap with Oxford. Otherwise, as has been said before, and not just by me, I suspect we really need to wait and see before passing judgment. Sounds like a Honda with a hole in its exhaust

I suspect buyers may be placed in 3 broad categories (an imperfect exercise productive of controversy, I know!): 1. The Collector and Run-What-I-Like modeller. They may be presumed to buy almost anything if it is attractive and takes their particular fancy. Nothing wrong with that, but I suggest that buyers in this category will not be overly concerned by accuracy. 2. The more discerning, who would generally like to think the models they buy are accurate, but who may, nevertheless 'tolerate' inaccuracy up to a point, or, who may buy because they are genuinely ignorant of the inaccuracy. 3. Those with the knowledge and discernment to insist upon a high degree of accuracy. I would not want to guess at percentages, but I would suggest it likely that 1-3 are listed in descending order of sales volumes and ascending order of vocal criticism. In the interests of full and frank disclosure, I'd say I am probably somewhere within Category 2 aspiring to be Category 3! So, sales-wise, a manufacturer might be able to afford to ignore Category 3, and a, perhaps growing, number of Cat 2s. And they do, e.g. every time they put a pre-Grouping livery on a 1923 RCH wagon. That is not wise. The vocal nature of Cat 3 ultimately erodes reputation and a growing number of Cat 2s may be 'turned'. It is these floating voters in the middle who are always decisive in the end, and the trend is that over time they have become more discerning and more vocal. So, the trick of it is, presumably, to make a model to a sufficiently exacting standard to satisfy most of the Cat 3s (you could invent a machine that goes back in time and that shrinks prototypes to 1:76 scale and the results would still not satisfy some Cat 3s!), but that is shiny enough to tempt most Cat 1s. Cat 2s are satisfied in the process. No one said that would be easy. Of course, that's all pure speculation on my part!