John Isherwood

Remember the Lima 'Western' - it was on the photo so it was on the model! CJI.

I sincerely doubt that this stupid idea has originated with the factory. They may have said "Do you want lights?", not realising the peculiarities of the British train description light system. I'll bet a sales person has seized on this - being equally uninformed - and the long-suffering design team have been charged with achieving the impossible. CJI.

Which, of course, completely overlooks the fact that European steam loco lamps are MUCH larger, usually in fixed locations, and not used for variable train description purposes! That's what we are up against - marketing execs. who know nowt, care nowt about railways. CJI.

I think that we are discussing the little square brackets situated on the solebars, above the centre of the springs. CJI.

........ or, increasingly on the school run, one's precious offspring in a container resembling a wheelbarrow! CJI.

It comes, I am willing to bet, from marketing execs., (who know s*d all about railways), who want to be able to advertise yet another gimmick as being a 'FIRST EVER'!!!!!!! CJI.

The first post in this thread refers to scanning original kit components, in order to use the scanned dimensions to produce replic masters - ie. tooling. No matter how it is developed, the production of a plastic kit requires a precision steel mould, into which liquid plastic is injected at tremendous pressure. Whereas the original Kitmaster kit tools were probably hand-cut, modern tooling would be machine-cut under computer control. Whatever, and however done, the cost is one of the major price components. So - I hold to my premise that tooling would be required, and the cost would be prohibitive. CJI.

Are you serious? Simply drawing up new components? What about the toolmaking? It may well be hard to find 'said kits' in this day and age, but the number of people looking for them and - more to the point - prepared to pay the cost of newly-tooled kits of non-motorised models would be vanishingly small. Sorry, you have a very naive perception of the model railway market, and the costs of producing models. CJI.

That tank wagon is the first Dapol model that has really impressed me. CJI.

I'm pleased to see that this thread is NOT about burying deceased wives!😄 Sorry, blame Billy Connelly. CJI.

They don't care - you bought the model, and paid extra for the privilege! It's called 'added value', but really means 'added profit'. CJI.

A photo of this model would be MOST interesting. I remember seeing an illustration of it in 'Imaginary Locomotives'. John Isherwood.

I do wonder if any of those who are enthusiastic about working 'oil' lamps on models have ever actually seen the prototypes, when lit at night. I'm confident that they would be more than a little shocked at the faint light that they showed. What is now difficult to conceive is how little ambient light there was at night on the railway - even in stations - so bright lights were not required. I've a feeling that Colin Gifford's books contain some night shots - these give a very good impression of the general 'dimness' of the railway at night, as we geriatrics clearly remember. CJI.

Sadly, I cannot argue with that! CJI.

I don't think that this debate is specific to Hornby's new Black Five - it seems to me to be about a deeper concern about the way that new products are being developed nowadays. Innovation has been, up to this point, desireable and to be welcomed; it has pushed the boundaries and produced vast improvements in authenticity. However, we seem now to have reached a critical stage. The latest developments - lighting, sound, steam generation, etc., etc. - are, from a 'traditional' railway modelling perspective, producing a negative effect as far as authenticity is concerned. We have become used to ever more of the interior of our models being filled with mares' nests of wires and electronics, and huge plugs and sockets visible between locos and tenders. I have previously expressed my views on the loss of tractive effort that results from this mass of electronics but, when the actual visible aspect of the model is seriously compromised with fixed lights, surely it is time to say 'Enough'! There is now, undoubtedly, a strong market for models with all the 'bells and whistles', and that market seems not to want to be bothered with what I would call 'traditional' railway modelling; (no offence intended). There is (still), I believe, a strong cohort of the potential market whose priority is authenticity, and it is my belief that that section of the market is in danger of being left behind by the demands of company marketing executives for ever more gimmickry. Very few of those persons who run the more established producers seem to have any knowledge (or interest) in railways per se - their primary concern is potential and actual sales, naturally. For that reason, they are unable to properly assess the impact of these half-baked attempts to stand out in the market. I believe that now is the time, for what I still believe to be the silent majority, to make the point - forcefully - that those of us who are 'traditional' railway modellers, rather than electronics enthusiasts, deserve more consideration when it comes to potential developments that compromise authenticity. John Isherwood.

Now, that is far, far more like it! Next time, specify daylight lighting for your hotel room. CJI.

Room service?!? In my experience, hotel bar prices are extortionate - I wouldn't even countenance room service; (are you on expenses)? My first job in any hotel room - worldwide - is to empty the mini-bar and refill it with bottle-shop beer and wine. Not tight, nor nowt! CJI.

The middle photo looks - almost - LNER green! CJI.

Too many model producers seem to have mountaineer syndrome - we do it because it's there / we can! CJI.

That is my impression- worryingly reminiscent of the ancient, original Gresley coaches. CJI.

Are the black ends / roof curves authentic? CJI.

Might I urge caution? Design by committee rarely turns out well! CJI.

If you are the above person, or know him, please contact cctrans@hotmail.com concerning a recent payment to Cambridge Custom Transfers.

Thank you - but no thanks. I know already that the 'Manor' can perform perfectly with additional weight. Out will come all the wiring etc., except pick-ups to motor terminals, and in will go plenty of lead. Quicker and easier than sending it back! John Isherwood.

Gradients are anathema on my railway - for my purposes, haulage is about length of train, and ability to overcome rolling resistance. CJI.