Golden Fleece 30

This model is the loco driven one and far better than the old 60's tender driven version. You now need a single chimney black one Ray.

Thanks David, Mike, Ray You certainly make me feel a youngster at 66. My first electric train set was Dublo about 1957, second hand from a well known shop in York. Silver King with no tender, 0-6-2 wagons and coaches with some Dublo and Wrenn track. It was soon followed by Tri-ang 00 and TT as my parents had no idea of non compatible and a year or so later one Christmas I got a Trix shop window layout from the Co-oP, again non compatibility plus I could never get them to reverse direction (it never worked in the Co-oP as far as I can remember. I too liked the Trix switches but just ahead were the Dublo ones for me, Tri-ang did not get a look in after buying a couple. Thankfully I worked on the railway and got great training knowledge of metal work (apprentice/tradesman), machining, fitting, electrical etc which certainly helped my hobby. I recently got rid of the milling machine and large lathe (ones I was trained on in 68) and have a small Boxford and even smaller Cowel one. Also the oxy-acetylene equipment went a few years ago when I stopped live steam as my 5" Duchess and A4 both weighed about 14 stone and my 7 1/4" Prairie was 22 stone. Jackie and I used to hand lift the Duchess or A4 on and off the trailer so all got too heavy and was sold. Railways and playing sport were my only interests. Competitive sport only stopped a couple of years ago as arthritis in some joints took its toll and even now I can struggle to undo a tight screw in a loco, plus glasses, mind you in the dads race at the school sports last year I did not come last yet was at least 30 years older than the others :-). Garry

The 6 here plus one more Robert. The one not finished yet may get a high sided tender although I do have a few Britannia tenders spare, who knows I may do another 9F (Evening Star?). The valve gear will be a while and basically a Tri-ang design. With the two locos here I have re shaped the Castle slidebars but then thought about lowering the mounting plate position. This would enable an etched one to be flat on the top and not require the body to have a wide slot for them to fit into and be bent. The return cranks would have to be soldered onto the crank pin but I guess that is normal procedure. As I will be doing slightly different ones for these two I may as well look at some for the A3 and V2 on the same etch. Garry

Its modellers licence Bernard, I did not like the green roofs they did not give them any appeal to me. Garry

A productive day with brush and spray can. The Brush 4's are completed paint wise with D1725 in gloss and the other in Matt. I need to source some buffer as D 1786 did not have any when I bought it. I think I am going to move the couplings back a couple of mm's as the bogie itself cannot go further back. The roofs are a tight fit so not fully down yet, one is in diesel roof grey the other in primer as no roof grey left. The Standard tank has its firebox bands in place and is now ex works although I may put satin or matt on the black, then fit some handrails. The Stanier had its buffer beams painted and is finished in satin. One of the Standard 5,s got a satin smokebox, footplate and roof to go with its ex works boiler. Unfortunately the satin does not show much difference but I may leave it as it was a pain masking out, but who knows? The rear two are yet to be stripped and painted although the rear one has been done well by its previous owner but the right hand side tender crest faces backwards (as it should be once BR were told off by the Heraldic association for having left and right version, I just prefer both facing forwards. One will be in green as per the front one. This is a little high as the previous owner did not fit the chassis correctly so needs some work doing to it. For some reason he also put the plastic valve gear support the wrong way around gluing the rods to it, hopefully easily to rectify. There is another of these awaiting a chimney before starting to paint and that should be enough. Just bought a 3D printed J39 and hopefully it will be as good as the Standard 3 tank. Garry

I like the collett chucks but don't have one myself. The only issue was changing colletts for different bar diameters but as you say are more accurate. Garry

Good job nobody is paying you an hourly rate lol. I like the small holding chuck (if so how is it mounted?) or is that your knurling tool? Garry

It seems strange that both Hornby Dublo and Tri-ang (00 and TT) did issue locos for a time in gloss but I don't remember seeing Marklin etc doing it. It could be because I was never interested in foreign ones and that only one shop in York had a little Marklin in that I remember. It is nice to have the odd one as an ex works loco, in fact only today I have sprayed two locos with a gloss finish. I will say it is not often I leave the smokebox gloss though preferring to give that a satin finish as here with a Dublo Castle or a TT King. Garry

Thanks David, I know what you mean about the Pressfix transfers, that was the recent issue around my Autocoach that I had to draw and transfer over them as I could not get them off. I am not a Pressfix lover but at times they are the only option as some waterslide ones show too much carrier film which is not always hidden under varnish. Even these Fox ones have at times an alignment issue where the grey and red are at different spaces/widths to the next piece, other times it is me :-(. I have had to wear glasses for a long time now and it is a pain the rear, my numbers are not often straight or equally spaced. At least with waterslide ones you can re-wet within a couple of minutes to move. My glasses are that strong that a door frame looks curved so it does not help sighting lining and numbers up but I have to put up with it these days. Garry

Hi Mike, The HD castings cannot be soldered but a lot higher melting point than normal solder so what I did was file a bevel on all sides of the window then filled it with solder to a brass plate on the inside slightly larger than the window. Having the bevel prevents the solder being pushed out, I prefer solder to the likes of Milliput, car filler etc. The cab should be smaller but I think I decided to just leave it and therefore the chassis has not been touched. The cab cut out is not actually the correct shape as the rear window is in the way so I just filed it to look reasonable but get around the window position. Removing the chimney cap allows a small spacer to be inserted to give the extra height. The tender had a few millimeters removed from its base but still tall enough to allow the plungers to work. Have you seen the Castle to County conversion too? Garry

While putting transfers on the two Brush 4's I decided to paint the Stanier tank and line it out. I had run out of primer so had to put satin straight onto the whitemetal which should be fine. The buffer beams need to be done then varnished. The buffers are Tri-ang A1A's as the kit ones did not look too good. Having looked at this and the standard 3 tank with their chassis's in situ I think I may get some etched valve gear parts made and include the A3, V2 etc. Garry

Wizard also took over the Comet range of coaches etc. Garry

Hi David, One thing I had thought of doing but did not need to was putting a phosphor bronze spring from the body to press on the bogie as the Dublo W/C locos had and the TT prairie tank. Those small later motors were fitted in a few locos like the B12 and Jinty amongst others replacing the trusty XO4 ones. I never had one in a loco but have recently bought a couple to try to make a motor bogie for a TT class 20 which only has 14mm inside the bonnet. Garry

While messing around with the Standard 3 and Stanier tanks I have also been assembling and painting another BEC brush Type 4 which is nearing completion. Garry

Going back all those years ago there was a company called Crownline who made a lot of "kits" that either extra detailed a ready to run loco or did modifications sets like converting the City to the Stanier or Salford versions although I guess they were mainly for the Hornby plastic models. As you say though Mike there were hundreds of shops in tbose days where spares or detailing parts could be obtained. The chassis you talk about looks to be an early Wrenn one as the casting behind the armature is bevelled at the top but I think the Dublo ones were flat like the front section. Regarding your comment to David about moving a chassis forward, the pole pieces can be filed quite a bit to allow it to fit into tighter spaces. I have removed quite a bit to get a Dublo chassis into a Trix A3 and Bachmann V2 bodies. I have also thinned down some TT ones with no detrimental effects. Garry

For quite a while Wrenn used the Dublo Castle and 8F/City tender bases which had the holes for plunger pick-ups still in even after modifying the base's to take their own pin point wheel assemblies but eventually these holes were filled in and just a small cast circular disc marked the spot. This made it harder to fit plungers especially as the metal was a lot thinner now. Wrenn also modified the Bo-Bo chassis redesigning the motor block which was used unpowered as the trailing bogie saving two different ones needed. They also removed the plunger facility making this a harder loco to 3-rail than any other. This chassis was then used in the Brighton Belle units. As far as I know the 08 and other Ringfield locos were not modified to prevent any interchangeability with Dublo counteparts. Wrenns Scot and Spamcan had new chassis's designed around the Dublo vertical motor version but were not part of the old Dublo stable. I don't know what happened to most of the moulds, Dapol fire or otherwise, but do know the R1 was with Wrenn for their use and was sent away to be repaired as it was well worn. While away the repairers lost it never to be seen again so production of the R1 ceased from then on. Wrenn did have plans to introduce the Mk1 and stove 6 wheeler coaches, the Mk1's in blood and custard livery along with the green SR EMU. These were advertised in a catalogue but never materialised. They also advertised the Royal Scot, Spamcan, WR 45xx 2-6-2 and an SR 4-4-2 radial tank. Only the Scot and Spamcan made it into production. It was rumoured that the latter 2 were going to be K's whitemetal bodies as the Streamlined Coronation was. That loco itself was not successful as the castings were so poor more than half were returned to K's. The tenders for the Coronations that did make it to the shelves were the Tri-ang (Hornby) ones that used the Dublo City bases. Garry

This is all because from day one Wrenn modified a chassis block to fit both the City and A4. They never ever used the the Dublo A4 body or chassis which is why the Wrenn A4 body will not fit a Dublo chassis either. Instead of a plate with a stud riveted by the buffers on the A4 they cast a block inside with a tapped hole. This meant a slot at the front for a screw. They took away the pony truck tender coupling loop and used a bar similar to the City because they always used Tri-ang (Hornby) tenders, the Dublo tin version tender was never produced. The loco chassis was designed from the City one shortened for the A4 hence the plastic lug at the back. The Dublo A4 chassis had protrusions for the valve gear assembly to be pinned to which would interfere with the one piece City valve gear so plastic spacers were designed to replace the cast Dublo ones when the chassis was A4 based. On a similar note Wrenn never used the 0-6-2 chassis from Dublo but instead modified the R1 to take a pony truck, not Dublo's version but their own, and a plate to extend to the rear of the bunker. The bunker rear was slotted to take the plate in the same way the R1 body to chassis was fixed. This meant that Wrenn and Dublo 0-6-2's are not interchangeable either. Garry

I have done this the wrong way round really by painting and lining before I have even modified or fixed a chassis but I could not resist seeing it nearly completed. Just need to drill for the handrail pins, varnish and then fit the handrails. After that time to sort out the chassis, or, get on with the Stanier tank if the buffers come for it. Robert, mine will not get a tender drive but might need a fair bit of bodywork mods to sort something out, thats if the body looks okay when it is finished. Garry

I hope you don't go hungry Robert. I bought this tank, an A5 and a B1. The B1 may need a chassis building for it due to a limited gap in the footplate, the A5 might accept a Tri-ang chassis but this tank is the best of the lot. I know the wheels may no be correct but as Tri-ang only made two sizes and Romfords are rare and expensive Jinty wheels will do. At the moment I am just going to use Castle slide bars etc as I am doing on the Stanier tank and if all goes well I may look at making some etched pieces for other parts. A B16 and J39 I think are next on the cards for 3D printing along with a couple of matching tenders. I have been told there is very little space inside the J39 and its designer is looking at using a motor in the tender to drive the loco. Garry

Thanks to some information from David on my TT posts I read that the first Duchess to be painted in BR green was Duchess of Montrose in November 1951 which is probably why Dublo chose that name for their green version. Garry

The colour of an original Atholl, the middle one in my photo of three, is what Dublo produced and really I think is nothing like the actual Crimson Lake used by the LMS. As you mention Mike, Crimson Lake and BR loco maroon were very close if not the same so Dublo's model is wrong. I only did mine, the top one, to copy Dublo's version. My comment on colour was just in relation to Dublos models. David, to a degree the City's were similar but not the same to the Atholl's at one time with only a slight difference. Over the few years of production though some had what a lot of people, including me, called a "pink" hue which was even more noticeable on the cylinder castings that never matched the body. During the City years some tenders were slightly different as they were moulded plastic as opposed to a stoved finish loco body. None of the Dublo Duchess/City's had the correct shade when you look at what the compound 1000 and Duchess of Hamilton looked like. Colours are a nightmare. Garry

Thanks David, Even though it is dimension free it does show the chimney very slightly higher than the cab roof which is what all locomotives were like I think. I have a feeling I once read that 13' 2" was about the maximum height. The chimney on this loco is at most 2mm higher so rather than cut it I may just leave it. As you know I am not into full scale dimensional accuracy as everything is based around Tri-ang lol. Once painted up it may look different. I don't know what drawing the chap used but he might have made the smokebox a little small which would show the chimney higher. While looking on Google images I saw a couple with a tall chimney like this then realised they were standard class 2 tanks amongst the 3 and 4's so maybe the chap had mixed up drawings? At least someone is making a reasonable body at a reasonable price. The A5 I got looks promising too. Garry

That looks very nice Mike. Regarding the Humbrol Black I used to have issues like yours a few years ago when its manufacture went to China but for the last 2 or 3 years I have not had any problems and led to believe the paint is now made back in the UK. For my BR maroon Duchess/City's I use Peugeot Diablo Red, this is a metallic colour which "loses" the metallic shade when finished with the Satin varnish as you can see in the photo. For an LMS version, which I rarely do, I use the Damask red (I think it was) which is very close to Dublo as you can see with my repaint under an original Atholl. One photo shows how the flash has made this brighter than it is. The photo of 3 locos shows the colour as close to what it is to the naked eye. The front steps may have been broken off if it had been dropped or knocked, or possibly, a previous owner tried to fit larger wheels and they caught on the steps? Garry

There is also the "shoulder/flare" at the chimney base missing but for the price it saves a lot of building, and does look something like. I guess the chimney could get cut down but I dont have a drawing to go by. It will take a while to finish fitting it in with all the other projects so if I do get something to go by I may reduce it. Garry

Here is a nice 3D printed model of a BR standard 3 tank. Hopefully a Tri-ang chassis will be fitted. At the moment it looks promising resting on a Jinty chassis. I want to use the Castle one but fitted with Jinty wheels. This wil be in BR lined green and if all goes well I could be tempted to get another to do in lined black. The green is standard BR but my phone flash has made it very light. Garry