Woodcock29

I need to amend my comments above. From study of photos on Rail-online it appears there were Q4s with straight sided firebox and twin splashers over centre drivers as well as waisted firebox versions with the long splashers. What's not clear is whether any with straight sided firebox made it to BR days - I'll have to study Yeadon more when I get home to try and get a better overall conclusion. Not that I really need to know about BR period for my modelling. Just goes to show how modelling LNER locos is such a minefield. Andrew

Interesting last comment Simon. I'm not at home this week so can't check my references to see if that's a conclusion I can agree with or not? Sometimes, maybe quite often, we're never going to know the full story in this hobby of ours. Andrew

That's certainly the right combination of firebox and splasher type as I understand it and from photos I've studied. Andrew

Tony I think the other thing that's wrong with the Q4 is it has the wrong firebox shape. A while ago I spent some time studying Q4s as I have a part built Millholme model that I've been building for quite some time. I think the version with the type of splashers shown on the model above should have a waisted firebox. The straight sided firebox version had a long O4 type splasher covering the rear 3 driving wheels on each side which was also provided in the kit. Clearly this is not going to be altered on the model above without a substantial rebuild. On mine I've modified the firebox to suit. Andrew

For anyone one modelling GC locos this is one of the most useful books you can have along with the relevant Yeadon loco volumes. Andrew

Further to the discussion on the Bachmann O4. I don't think any O4s /RODs were ever fitted with a 3250 gallon tender they all had 4000 gallon tenders. As has been already stated Bachmann simply copied the tender attached to the preserved 63601 which is not actually an ROD built tender - its a Kitson built tender from 6202 - it carries the tender No plate 6202 on the centre of the tender front coal plate as does the model. The O4s with water pick up tender had the water pick up gear removed from 1946 onwards according to Yeadon. So its concluded that when the water pickup was removed from tender 6202 it must have had a round water filler like those on the ROD built tenders fitted with the rear coal plate further back to give additional coal space. The Bachmann O4/1 model has the later short LNER cast chimney. I think Bachmann have done an extremely good job on this chimney (I have a tendency to be highly critical of chimneys on models if they're not right - they are after all a key part of the face of an engine). The dome is of the original height as all Robinson boilers retained the full height dome as far as I know but some were more angular in shape than others. Whereas those O4s/RODs fitted later with either Gresley O2 boilers or Thompson B1 boilers got shorter domes. Here is my first Bachmann O4/1 renumbered and modified to better reflect 6202 in the mid 30s LNER period. Note the tender is not 100% accurate as I didn't remove the front left corner from the water pick up box that I used on the back of the tender - I discovered this piece of information later on. Fitting this of course requires the rear coal plate to be removed and new one fitted further forward. Also the 'ships wheel' that I fitted to the top right front of the tender is an Alan Gibson cast lost wax brass fitting which has 8 spokes - it should be 6 - eventually I'll get around to fitting one of the Mike Edge etched ships wheels with the correct 6 spokes that I have. One of the flaws with the Bachmann O4, which was corrected when it introduced the GWR/WR ROD model is that the wide section of footplate over the cylinders goes too far back beyond the cylinders. Consequently I've actually used Bachmann ROD models to model two of the ROD built O4/3s. This model also has the correct cab roof for an ROD in that the rear angle iron is forward of the back of the roof to enable a canvas sheet to be rolled up on the top of the rear of the roof. I'm not aware that any other O4/ROD models (kits that is) have ever included this feature correctly. Here is 6364 and I've fitted an early period LNER flowerpot chimney! I used a spare Bachmann J11 chimney suitably shortened at the base to replicate the flowerpot chimney. I might even make an O4/1 with parts form a couple of other spare Bachmann O4/1/RODs I have but I'd have to steal a J11 chimney off one of my J11s but I do have a brass J11 flowerport I could substitute. 6364 is basically a Bachmann ROD but with a Bachmann O4 boiler fitted - a spare leftover from making an O4/5 using a Bill Bedford 3D printed boiler. Given the mention previously of 3250 gallon tenders - a lot of the J11s were fitted with those so I made a couple for 2 of my J11s using O4 tenders as the basis as the J11 tender is a more refined model in a number of ways and has the correct water pickup arrangements - albeit with an 8 spoke 'ships wheel', So I didn't want to cut those up - you need to remove around 1.5-2mm from the base of the tank to make a 3250 gallon tender but you have to separate the tank from the sole plate to do this and make new front side plates. Bachmann did get the correct number of spokes on the ships wheel on the D11/1 model though. Andrew

Given I'm leading a group of 8 of us from SA if we all bring one we've got all bridges covered!

Tony A couple of comments on the latest Heljan O2s which of course I've only seen in photos. More-accurate valve gear - I don't think so. More robust probably as I understand they changed the metal its made from but it still has the glaring anomaly of a fixed right angle at the front end of the eccentric rod. Better chimney - not from the photos I've seen. However, I do look forward to seeing one as one friend of mine has ordered one. I only hope a range of spare parts will be available, as they were previously, so I can convert a very cheap damaged O2/3 model I got a couple of years ago into a 1930s period O2/1. Of the 3 LNER 2-8-0 models available I rate the Hornby O1 as the best model with the Bachmann O4 second. Maybe Heljan's improvements will make the O2s equal second? One significant benefit from Heljan of course is that they provide a wide range of O2 variants. Something Bachmann could do with the O4, eg O4/7, O4/8 but haven't. I suppose at least Bachmann has produced an upgraded model of an original ROD as well as GWR//WR RODs. Andrew

Looking closely at photos there appears to be a bolthead sticking out of the holes - so maybe I'll be looking for suitable diameter brass rod? Interesting comments about the positioning of the nameplates - hopefully the brass ones will fit in the correct position without any holes showing. I'd better start cutting them out!

Terry that looks like the Golden Arrow body I made mine from in the late 80s I think. I'll have to find the old one and show you both if you're able to visit sometime this summer when you're back down south? Andrew

The Golden Arrow body and tender have been around for a long time. I'm sure I built mine back in the late 80s. I actually bought a second hand older Hornby B17 with a Comet chassis in it from a mate not long ago with the aim of using that chassis in the B17/5 to replace the Hornby loco chassis and tender drive which it still had but of course when I took the Golden Arrow body off its basically solid fibreglass so its useless trying to fit a loco drive chassis in it. Unfortunately I can't find a photo of it and its currently buried somewhere deep under my layout! The body isn't that accurate as it appears to have been made from a mould made from a modified old Hornby tender drive A4 body so it has the dip on the boiler top in front of where the dome is. Anyway I've bitten the bullet and ordered one earlier this week. I even have a spare set old old Kings Cross nameplates for East Anglian waiting for it. Andrew

Tony your Valour looks like it's coming along very well. When I kit-bashed mine some 30 odd years ago from a Ks B2 I didn't fit a brake hanger support between the leading and centre drivers but instead supported it from below with the brake rigging. I used Romford 27mm 20 sp wheels on it and have a set put aside for my G Trains B3 - which will be Lord Faringdon. So maybe they will not fit as I haven't started on it yet and haven't really tested any clearances - I'm quite prepared to turn the flanges down a bit so maybe they will? Fortunately I do have a spare set of Romford 26mm 20 spoke which I could use if necessary. Andrew

I fitted a Ks P2 I built for my father back in the 1980s with 24mm Romfords - so 0.67 mm underscale but of course I had to reduce the flanges (best to do all 8 for appearances) - fairly easy task when you fit a wheel to an axle and stick it in a power drill and use files and wet and dry. Just need to take your time and measure regularly. In fact I do this regularly when I need to use older Romfords on any kits I build now just to reduce the flanges. The P2 was fitted with a large Portescap and loaded with lead and will pull anything I care to put behind it - a true layout loco! Andrew

I've answered my own question - I worked out it must be Haig. Andrew

Tony I've always liked the whiskey wagons and have a collection of them - probably all that were produced plus a few of the Bachmann versions which appear to have used more or less the same moulds. Can you tell me the name on the one with short boards inside the Abbot's Choice - which is the one on the extreme right please (I've identified all the others). Glad you've a sold them. I actually had mine out for a couple of months and ran them with a Bachmann Class 20 - very different to what I normally run. Andrew

I visited Skegness on my recent UK trip but only briefly - to see a Jolly Fisherman and photograph the remaining semaphores and GN signal box. Even then the station at Wainfleet was probably more interesting.

You've got me thinking more about this one now Tony. I was sure at the time it was 3D printed - I'll have to see if I can find out. Might have to spend some time studying the luggage lav compo running on my layout. On another point the brass Isinglass LNER van in your original post is actually the Dia 86 general van. The milk van version (Dia 87) only had the top lights above the end panels. In the centre 2 panels the louvres were at the top of the sides. Dan Pinnock did both versions. I've got a milk van version under restoration at the moment (well it has been for some time really - must get back to it). That's not to say that the general vans didn't carry milk on some occasions. Andrew

That's also an LNER built one from the late 1920s as it has droplights. The original NE bogie CCTs had windows either side of the doors. The LNER version in this photo is I think the same length (45'?) as the NE one.

Sorry Tony but this is an LNER designed 52' CCT first built in 1940. What could be called the final member of a family based on ex NER CCTs. I have one to build and saw a preserved one, built in 1950 under BR according to the builders plate, at Betws-y-Coed on my recent UK trip. Andrew

Tony A slight correction - the Bill Bedford GN Dia 277 BT is 3D printed in resin not cast. I have the similar Dia 129 luggage lavatory composite. Andrew

On the one I built to represent the last builds (shown somewhere above) I sourced a longer bogie but can't remember where from - maybe I already hd it amongst my spares. They do look so much better with water pipe for the boiler. Andrew

Graeme The Millholme Q4 I'm building was bought from a company called The Kit Connecton over 20 yrs ago. However, it was lacking some parts including all the steps and splashers. As fortune would have it when I was in a model railway shop in Perth, Western Australia in 2005 I found they had a range of w/m parts from various kits in small bags. First thing spotted was a Millholme GC tender which I grabbed (stupid move really given I later decided it wasn't a good model as the body is too long in relation to sole plate/frames- I'd already built one for my B5 seen on WW last week!). Then I spotted another bag with steps in them and others with splashers - both O4 style and also the individual and twin wheel splashers from a Q4 which of course I purchased along with the tender. So I assume these are genuine Mllholme parts I mean what else could they come from? There were no instructions in the kit so I couldn't say 100% they were all supplied in a Millholme kit. Interestingly the twin splashers sit at the same height on the footplate as the curved part of single leading splasher and also the rear splasher. This is incorrect as the twin splasher was a bit taller to accommodate the sand box - like the sand box at the front of the leading splasher. So I'll have to build the twin wheel splashers up in height. The firebox in the kit was the straight sided version but I've remodelled it into the waisted style. Andrew

Nice to see the Longfit finished Jonathan. It's actually Sutherland/Cotswold but later it could have ended up under NuCast given their loco kits did. I checked the unmade one I still have and there is one of the w/m coupling mounting pieces extra so that's why you were short of one. There were no w/m mounts for the vac cylinder though. I built 2 of these back in the mid 80s and had to hand-letter the small block right of centre. Not sure my hand would be steady enough these days! Andrew

Tony I've built 4 Millholme Models over the years with one part built at the moment (and has been for some time). First up an exGC LNER B5 built back in 1987. It should probably be lined but I have read that some of the GC black 4-6-0s were unlined in the late 30s. This loco is fitted with a small Portescap and is in use mostly on my 30 van fish train, many of which are whitemetal. I've got another of these unbuilt and another purchased built as a non-runner very cheap from which I plan on salvaging the boiler and firebox for use with a set of B9 etches by Mike Edge. An N5 built in the early 2000s. This powerer with a Mashima 12 series and Comet gearbox. More recently, about 10 years ago I built 2 ex L&Y Dreadnought 4-6-0s. One for me and the other for a friend. The were 2 distinct versions of the Dreadnoughts - the last 20 being built on frames that had been destined to be built as more 4-6-4Ts and were longer at the front end. The interesting fact about this kit is that is is neither the later version nor the earlier version - its a compromise as it has features of each. the length is somewhere between the two. It has the roof profile of the later version but from memory the front frames are more like the earlier version. Also the boiler is under-size in both diameter and length (4mm too short). So I decided to build one of each type - working I think from drawings that might have been in BRM (?). I cut both footplates in strategic positions and rejoined them to the other part from the other kit. This gave me one longer footplate and one shorter to represent both versions - -possibly I made a further cut at the front end above the buffer beam as the footplates are significantly different in this area but I can't remember. New boilers were made from PVC water pipe of diameter very close to that needed being approx 0.5 mm too large from memory - but much better looking than being totally undersize. The firebox halves were joined but with a gap so they matched the wider boilers - the gap being filled with low melt solder (which in recent years appears to have marginally shrunk as the filled area is now visible on the top of the fireboxes! This is not the first time I noted low melt solder shrinking after being used to fill gaps - I'm being very wary of using this for such in the future). I had to fashion a new cab roof for the earlier version with quite distinctive curves to the sides such that I had to create formers to shape this around. I also had to make up new front frame extensions for both to match variation in each type. The earlier version is fitted with a medium Portescap and the later version with a Buhler motor with Ultrascale gearbox but this does not run as well as the Portescap powered model -as I now own both I might well fit a medium Portescap the that model as I double-head them regularly. The photo below is of the later version with longer front end which also necessitated finding a longer bogie - boiler bands had not been added at this stage. Th The next photos shows the earlier version which has closer coupling of engine and tender as my curves are more generous than those on my late friend's layout. and here they are double heading on the high level LMS part of my layout. As indicated above I have another part built Millholme kit, a Q4 0-8-0 but I've struggled a bit with that but need to get back to it this year! Andrew

Tony In the case of the P2s and my latest A4 I uncoupled the locos several times whilst working out what crew to add and during coaling, which in some cases entailed some weathering of the empty coal space prior to adding real coal. In hindsight I think the ease with which this new coupling system can be coupled and uncoupled is in fact its downfall as the temptation is to do this a number of times which one probably wouldn't have done in the case of the previous white plug and socket arrangement even with the Hornby tweezers type tool. In reality, from my experience the electrical connections in the female part of the coupling are simply not robust in anyway. On my recent Bachman V2 (and 3 for Alan Harrison) I did rebuild the awful coupling but was able to reuse the internal electrical plug in that for the electrical wires and brass wire for a goal post physical coupling. However, the Hornby coupling doesnt appear to lend itself to such an option - it would require a new eletrical plug. Andrew