trw1089

Certainly been enjoying KNP's pics along with your own Gilbert, it just shows how photogenic the whole of PN is now.  Those views along Station Road in particular are striking!

As for A3s and double chimneys, as much as they revitalised them in their waning years, I much prefer the A3s in single chimney guise, with a proper GN tender.  It just looks all properly balanced.

Cheers

Tony

On 28/08/2024 at 18:24, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Jack,

 

I agree in many ways with what Kier said, but my comment about direct comparisons was a fact - nothing subjective or suggesting 'one is better than the other'. 

 

I think there'll be a degree of agreeing to disagree here.

 

Unless I've got this wrong (if I have, my apologies), isn't this the J6 you built for Gilbert Barnatt to run on PN; the one I fixed after the postal service did its best to spoil it?

 

 

 

It's a splendid models - my compliments.

 

Clearly, you've observed the prototype during its construction (the tablet exchange apparatus and the patch on the tender side?). 

 

That's my point - observation of the actual prototype. Not made up.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

That’s actually the one I built Tony

1 hour ago, Keith Turbutt said:

May I suggest that anyone modelling LNER steam or it's constituents acquires a set of the RCTS Locos of the LNER. - The Green Bible(s). Details of variations within a class are fully covered along with a mass of other information.Second hand copies are fairly easy to obtain.

The set ran into 11 volumes, with sub divisions, and I started my set in the mid 60's when still a schoolboy! The final volume (they did not appear in numerical order) appeared several years later.

I believe the RCTS have very generously made digital versions freely available on their website - you do not have to be a member.

As to the different K3 cab sides these are of course covered together with drawings.

Thanks Keith, purchased the bundle and downloading now.  I never knew the green books were available digitally.  I have the relevant Yeadons for what I model, but had avoided purchasing the green books because I could never get the volumes I needed for a reasonable price.  50 quid for the lot via pdf means they are also all searchable too, which to me is even more useful.

Thanks also to jrg1, my Yeadons are well thumbed through and a constant reference, but they aren't quite as comprehensive for understanding all the details as I would like.  Now that I have both RCTS and Yeadons, hopefully accuracy will continue to improve!

Kind regards

Tony

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Tony,

 

My pointing out any 'errors' in anyone's work (including my own, after others have spotted them - there are many!) is not to have a 'pop' at anyone but to be constructively-critical. Like it or not, many seem to 'use' this thread as a source of reference; a reference for building their own models. Granted, one should never model a model, but they can form a reference point. 

 

Regarding K3s, by the way, even though the Bachmann model is only suitable for later builds (the majority, to be fair) with LH drive and the larger cab, I've seen many examples where it's been renumbered to an earlier example. There's always the exception, of course; at least one, 61811, from the earlier series, was altered to LH drive, though it still retained the earlier style of cab. 

 

I might well have an etch for the earlier style of cab. If I can find it, you're welcome to it. 

 

You need never be concerned about posting images of your work on Wws..............

 

 

Modelling/weathering to this standard is inspirational!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Tony

Please don’t think that I’m not appreciative of you pointing out the faults in the modelling that appears on here as I’ve certainly learned a great deal about Eastern Region modelling from the posts on this thread, but I also still have much to learn too, so it’s inevitable that more clangers will appear when I post on here.  If you do find a large window cab I’d be more than happy to make a  suitable donation to CRUK to cover any inconvenience and also to cover any postage costs.

Kind regards

Tony

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

That's some very-impressive weathering; thanks for showing us.

 

With regard to the K3s, I assume you've renumbered the top one? If so, you've chosen an incorrect one, I'm afraid. The style of cab (longer sides and smaller windows) only suits the later-build K3s, and 61836 probably should retain RH-drive. 

 

Some examples...........

 

 

This shows the different style of cab - Bachmann to the left; the later style (the only one Bachmann does) and SE Finecast to the right (several cab styles are provided in the kit). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think there's a 'prejudice' here against non-kit-built locos (several of the above examples are sourced from RTR K3s), but, please, add the front steps to your pair of K3s.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

I hope you don’t mind my selective quoting here Tony and I am always cautious about posting my work here because I know you’ll point out the errors that I may be oblivious to.  
 

Yes, I did renumbered both as I used previous advice on here about the tenders to select both of these examples, but didn’t know about the cab differences.  I’m modelling Wakefield Westgate and surrounds in 1952 so am quite selective about the locos I choose and their renumbering so I can have examples that would have been active in the area, with at least one or both of these based at Doncaster shed in the time I model.  I wasn’t aware of the difference in cabs, so will take that under advisement, but whilst I do build a number of kit built locos, I haven’t yet got a prolific box of spares that might have a spare K3 cab, so will have to suffer the small window cab for the time being.  Am also very aware of the limitations of the Bachmann K3 wheels, but K3s were also such irregular performers through Westgate that I doubt I will operate both of these much anyway and they may be just “layout locos” whilst I concentrate on more prolific classes such as my beloved J6s (which you’ve already seen and looked after for Gilbert) and the very many J39s that were based at Ardsley in my modelling period. As for front steps, yes, something that I have yet to fit.

Kind regards

Tony

As one who has used both ESU and D&H, both are good decoders, but D&H are limited in some functions, and there is very little English documentation.  Ultimately there are two things that make a good sounding decoder (other than the speaker and the sound file developer, but that’s a whole other can of worms), one is the quality of the recordings used to make them and the other is the ability of the decoder itself to reproduce them in high enough quality.  Both ESU and D&H do the latter, the former is only possible when people like Locoman spend a lot of their own time and money to collect them. 

Cheers

Tony

On 22/07/2024 at 02:13, Hibelroad said:

My first thought is does it matter? If you don’t know if the sound is appropriate then you don’t have to worry about it. However, although my knowledge of steam operation is sketchy to say the least there are a few basic things I know. Engines must whistle prior to moving off, when starting off cylinder drain cocks may be operated to clear any water that may have condensed in the cylinder. The sound of safety valves lifting is only likely while stationary, coal shovelling noises would be at any time but only noticeable to a bystander when at a station. The blower would be operated when entering a tunnel and possibly when going under a bridge. Finally flange squeal is heard when negotiating tight curves with check rails. As I say my knowledge is shaky and someone may correct me, but there tends to be too many sounds on chips and the novelty of operating most of them will soon wear off. 

As a qualified steam loco driver, I think there are quite a few misconceptions in what you have there, and also as someone who builds DCC sound files there’s a few things I consider when providing different functions.   One is providing enough functionality so that the loco can be operated prototypically, two is providing a user with the full range of potential that the decoder might offer and three is to provide a certain amount of novelty for those who want such things.

In terms of prototypical operation, the key things are coal shoveling, injectors and blower.  Most decoder files come with coal shoveling and injectors playing as random sounds, but the blower is usually used to increase steam pressure if it’s down a bit.  What you tend to hear in the cab is not what you hear lineside, and to be honest, the sound levels used are often a balance or trade off to build a sound “picture” that gives the best impression of a loco.  I try to work on this the most, making sure that each function is balanced within the others (e.g the whistle shouldn’t be drowned out by the chuff unless the loco is working hard, injectors and coal shoveling should be heard but not overly loud etc).

An example sequence that would be prototypical might be, coast into a station with the blower on, when the train comes to a halt you may want to fill the water tank, and while doing so, maybe have the injector on to get the loco in readiness for departure, along with coal shovelling.  If you leave the blower on too long, the safety valves might lift, and then we hear the guards whistle for right away, with the driver acknowledging with a short pop of the whistle, then it’s getting the train underway.  If the station stop was a short one, then there will not be a need for drain cocks, but there may be flange squeal if curves are tight.  In the background the sound of the ejector might be on to restore vacuum after the braking for the station stop.

ive tried to demonstrate a few of these in my recent YouTube video here 

In all honesty, whilst I am not a fan of Mr Thompson, there is something about 60500 in that last shot that does look nearly graceful.  Nearly though...

Well done Dave, you do some impressively neat work and sharing it on here for everyone is very generous.

Cheers

Tony

PS There's a worn version of the Black 5 you really should try ;-)

13 hours ago, RAF96 said:

Which bit of these decoders is non-standard. They are a 4 plus 2 function output same as can be obtained from ESU. The bluetooth bit simply allows them to talk to the app, otherwise DCC is same old.

 

It might be that the decoder is standard, but from what Dave is experiencing, Hornby's wiring in the Black 5 that connects to that decoder, and probably how they have set up the TTX sound project to align with it, is definitely not following normal decoder wiring conventions.

Cheers

Tony

Great work Dave.  It’s convincing me to rip out the lot and do a complete rewire if I get one.  Yes, U+ is pretty standard return on many decoders I’ve used, with the only real non-standard I’ve seen before being BLI in the US (now there’s a painful brand to rewire…).

Can’t wait to see and hear the final result, especially with that meaty ESU speaker, they are very good.

Cheers

Tony

Wow Dave. What an effort!  I wish that Hornby would not direct connect to track power like that, so much easier to sort of they were wired independent of the track feeds.  I think I’ll stick with my orange LEDs for now! 
 

Good luck with the rest of it.  It would be nice if there was a bit of standardisation in boards.  ESU have been pretty good to deal with from an OEM side when manufacturing boards that stick with NMRA wiring conventions, rather than Hornby seemingly setting up only for their own decoders.

Cheers

Tony

It looks to me that I would connect the green to Aux 1 and blue to common positive and that would get you the correct flicker functioning.  I think they have mislabelled the loco PC board as GND appears to be common positive, but they are really confusing the wiring colours as per the attached markup, so just check again that this goes to U+ on the ESU decoder.  Honestly, this is why I tend to chuck out a lot of the built in boards and just wire up myself, at least I know what everything does then!

The file itself carries the latest firmware that synchronises the LED brightness to the exhaust chuffs and is quite effective, making sure that Aux1 is set to smart firebox.  I actually use the two Aux 1 positions with Aux 1 (1) as smart firebox as per normal, but Aux1 (2) as smart firebox with the brightness turned down to 8 (with LED mode on) and have that turned on by default on F1.  That way when you turn on the sound you get a dull flickering glow which will pulse with the exhaust, but when the random coal shovelling comes on or is set by pressing the F10 key, you get increased brightness as if the firebox door is opened.

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you need any more insight or help with the file.

Cheers
Tony

Well done on the installation,  very neat work.  Those new ESU speakers are brilliant.

Cheers

Tony

Lovely stuff Eric, always enjoy seeing more views from north of border.  Just noticed all your signal wire paraphenalia for the first time and now you’ve got me thinking about how I should add that on my layout (after the point rodding that is…).

Cheers

Tony

16 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Hello Alessandro

Can I ask another question about Black 5 sound. I have the Caprotti version of the new Hornby Locomotive. Before fitting sound, I wanted to check if there would be any differences to the sound profiles for the Black 5 with this valve gear.

As I already have 3 of your decoders for Black 5s, I was looking to use the 'alternative' or the 'worn' version.

Dave

Hi Dave

I’m very familiar with these two Black 5 projects for Alex and have been testing them quite a bit in my own layout.  The alternative version would be good for the Caprotti 5 as it has quite sharp exhausts that are characteristic of poppet valve locos.  The worn version is a little different in that it has the chuffs altered slightly to represent worn piston valves and sounds good as a conventional Black 5 that hasn’t been overhauled for a while.

Hope that helps!

Tony

On 05/06/2024 at 21:46, Michaelaface said:

Hello, I have preordered the new Hornby black 5 with sound and smoke, I’m slightly worried that the model will have their terrible tts recordings, does anyone know if the D&H or ESU decoders will be able to control the steam function 

 

(asking here because it’d be the locoman black 5 sound I’d get to replace)

The steam function should work as the chuff templates operate the “fan control” which should pulse the ultrasonic steam/smoke generator.

cheers

Tony

5 hours ago, great northern said:

looks like a mist has descended over PN. And that avoids photoshopping.

I really like how atmospheric this is (well it is a mist and all), but with the gloom of the bridge shadow and the non-descript sky, it all fits together.  Avoiding photoshopping, always a bonus!

Always look forward to the regular views of PN, it never tires no matter how many B1s, V2s, A3s, A4s, A1s, J6s and N5s we see, and especially when a B17 comes to visit!

Cheers

Tony

8 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

and a V2 beats them all as the finest looking steam engine ever built.

Couldn’t agree more Andy, though a B17 ain’t half bad and a double chimneyed A4 is right up there too.  Still, a V2 just looks so well balanced and that they were also such amazing machines in their own right makes them a firm favourite for me.

Cheers

Tony

12 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Anything of Hornby in it though? Serious question as I'm wondering whether it has had any updates since 1981. Apart from maybe a new motor.

 

I thought it was still the same model as made by Airfix and released by Mainline, only reaching Hornby via Dapol.

 

http://www.airfixrailways.co.uk/N2.htm

 

http://www.mainlinerailways.org.uk/N2.htm

 

 

 

Jason

The chassis itself seems to be updated, but the details were still “chunky” so I suspect not much Hornby other than the updated motor and drive train.

Regards

Tony

Thanks for the explanations of the non-stops Gilbert.  I was particularly interested in the West Riding and the Pullmans, as nearly everything seemed to stop at Wakefield Westgate except for the Queen of Scots Pullman in the period I’m modelling, though I suspect that post early 1960s when most of the Bradford portions went to Leeds there were significantly less.

It is always good to keep up with the Saturday happenings at PN, makes me want to think about understanding the Saturday workings “oop Norf”!

Cheers

Tony