RMweb Premium Colin Posted July 7, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 7, 2016 I may well do someday but summer's the wrong time. To anyone contemplating fitting etched sides, i suggest they detail, paint and glaze the sides before gluing them with Evostick to the roof and ends. This saves mucking about painting and masking the roof and ends. It is how I did BR Mk.I corridor coaches and some of the Gresleys. If only I'd thought of that - my 11 Bulleids took me ages! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 I agree but I also think a full brake and a van composite would do well As Derek and Larry appeared to be producing them in numbers then I may not be such a good seller. Add to that, the number of Exleys, and kit built ones. I have built four myself (post 28 livery) three of which were for other people, and have the complete BSL parts for another three. The GWR only ever built six, so they would not have been as common as some would have you believe. However the van compo is one I was surprised Hornby did not go for. There were lots of them and they literally went everywhere. Again, I have made several over the years, but mainly for on GWR modellers. It was not unusual to see one behind a streamline Coronation out of Liverpool as the Treacy books proves. Equally leaving Aberdeen and Edinburgh behind LNER engines was common. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 With my coach producer hat on, I came up against, "I don't need any more compo's or brake coaches". That one sentence put the kibosh on brake compo's and so I have held over CADs for the time being. But I agree a RTR brake compo makes for an attractive vehicle and useful for short trains where a minimum of first class accommodation is required. The "usual" two brake thirds and a composite train formation ends up with too much first class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 7, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2016 Also good for through portions. BCK attached to a branch train or BCK/TK hauled by the local tank engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 7, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2016 I may well do someday but summer's the wrong time. To anyone contemplating fitting etched sides, i suggest they detail, paint and glaze the sides before gluing them with Evostick to the roof and ends. This saves mucking about painting and masking the roof and ends. It is how I did BR Mk.I corridor coaches and some of the Gresleys. Thanks for the tip Larry. I am doing a mixed vintage LMS excursion train and I was wondering if that would be the best way to paint. I have cut out the RTR body sides and painted the roof and ends of the first coach. I am now going to pre-finish the sides as you suggest. Should save me a lot of time and fiddly painting round other colours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted July 7, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) As Derek and Larry appeared to be producing them in numbers then I may not be such a good seller. Add to that, the number of Exleys, and kit built ones. I have built four myself (post 28 livery) three of which were for other people, and have the complete BSL parts for another three. The GWR only ever built six, so they would not have been as common as some would have you believe. However the van compo is one I was surprised Hornby did not go for. There were lots of them and they literally went everywhere. Again, I have made several over the years, but mainly for on GWR modellers. It was not unusual to see one behind a streamline Coronation out of Liverpool as the Treacy books proves. Equally leaving Aberdeen and Edinburgh behind LNER engines was common. Mike Wiltshire In terms of 57' coaches in the mid-'30s, I have concentrated research on the North-West and cross-country expresses, as well as their limited use in WoE services. Looking at the formations of such trains on the South Devon mainline, I find that Brake Composites were very common. Against expectations, perhaps, they were the most common type! To run a full timetable you can use far fewer coaches than the real railway. This is because your Up and Down balancing services can use the same coaches, rather than two sets as would typically have been the case on the prototype. I calculated how many GW 57' passenger coaches I would need to run a full 24-hour timetable (this, of course, would utilise a combination of wooden panelled toplights, steel bodied toplights, Collett bow-enders and later Collett flat-enders): Van Thirds 5 Van Thirds (3 compt.) 2 Third 2 Composite 5 Brake Composite 8 Yes, 8. And only 2 All Thirds. This is the weekday winter timetable (running into July!) and Saturday formations, particularly in summer, would doubtless see more Thirds added as strengtheners. Even so, I suspect few would have expected a 4:1 ratio in favour of Brake Composites. Part of the explanation is that Brake Composites are not used to make up short trains, but are used as portions of a longer train, or part of a portion of a train. Another point is that none of the formations concerned utilise more than one GW 57' composite, so the nice idea of marshalling RH and LH compos in a train has no application in these services. Finally, Brake Vans, or 'full brakes' were also very common, but these services are more likely to have employed the 60' K40, than the 57' K38 (Ocean Mails), though I have spotted the latter on cross-country services. There were, of course, a number of 57' toplight diagrams and plenty of NC brake vans (of Dean vintage) were used. Of course, this is just one mainline, and the situation may have been completely different on, say Paddington to Birkenhead or South Wales services. EDIT: Before anyone gets too excited about 'only needing 22 coaches' on cross-country services, my list omits passenger brake vans, parcels vans, siphons, restaurant cars, the Bristol TPO and the significant number of LMS vehicles employed through to Devon on these services. Then, of course, there is the other 50% of express services, the WOE, which generally used 70 footers, or special stock for The Limited, plus siphons, mail, newspapers vans, sleepers, TPOs, restaurant cars etc, plus sets used for stopping services (though express coaches on balancing workings were also used on stoppers). I reckon that about 125 items of coaching stock would enable you to have a fair crack at the weekday winter timetabled services. Then, of course, there are specials .... But, again, who would have thought that, out of a stock of approximately 125 vehicles, only 2 would need to be 57' GW Thirds! Edited July 7, 2016 by Edwardian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 K38 variety. Having gone through the drawers here are four Ocean Mails vans from four different sources. Top one is the BSL I usually run. Next is an MTK (which I forgot I had) , then a Westdale and finally an Exley (flat ended on an LMS underframe). I have other sides from Hammond,Comet and now David Geen is planning one. Has the K38 been produced by more manufacturers than any other diagram. Not convinced sales will be significant if Hornby went down the K38 route. Mike Wiltshire 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Has the K38 been produced by more manufacturers than any other diagram. Not convinced sales will be significant if Hornby went down the K38 route.But only in kit form. The fact that it keeps cropping up a selling well suggests that it might be a good punt for RTR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 There were only six of them. It is possible that only five were lettered for Ocean Mails. At least one was used for newspaper traffic after 1942. They were quite long lived - two went in 1958, one in 1961 and the other three subsequently. If the Hornby range were to be extended this would no be my first choice. I would rather see the E128 brake composite and/or the suburbans that have been mentioned before. However, there is no doubty in my mind that some people will buy anything. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted July 12, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2016 A modeller is not going to buy more than one K38 no matter how pretty it looks, a K40 though.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exet1095 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 A modeller is not going to buy more than one K38 no matter how pretty it looks, a K40 though.... I won't! I've built two from Comet and other parts, one in post-war Ocean Mails livery (which I'm told is correct) and the other in plain Crimson. I'd be keen on more GWR coaches, but not non-corridor stock. Although almost any corridor coach diagram seems to have been recorded on almost every train photographed, non-corridor stock was built in much smaller numbers and for very specific places. Toplight suburban for Birmingham; Mainline and City/articulated stock for London. Various 57', 60', 64' and 70' types, and unlike the corridor stuff, this did tend to run in sets. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted July 12, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2016 K38 variety. Having gone through the drawers here are four Ocean Mails vans from four different sources. Top one is the BSL I usually run. Next is an MTK (which I forgot I had) , then a Westdale and finally an Exley (flat ended on an LMS underframe). I have other sides from Hammond,Comet and now David Geen is planning one. Has the K38 been produced by more manufacturers than any other diagram. Not convinced sales will be significant if Hornby went down the K38 route. k38 variety.jpg Mike Wiltshire Are a lot of Exley GWR coaches not accurate when compared to the prototype? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Are a lot of Exley GWR coaches not accurate when compared to the prototype? They are certainly short. the underframe/bogies have always been based on the LMS coaches that I have seen. I do not think they were ever suppose to be 'scale models, but were a major improvement on what was available. The most accurate I have is the diner which is a reasonable representation of a H25. I have only seen Hawksworth post 45 livery examples. I have four, that my dad bought when I was very young. My favourite is the sleeping car as no one else appeared to have one, when I was growing up. They may not be accurate but as a complete train, they looked impressive, especially when everyone else appeared to running Rovex/Hornby/Trix 'shorty' coaches. Mike Wiltshire 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) They may not be accurate but as a complete train, they looked impressive, especially when everyone else appeared to running Rovex/Hornby/Trix 'shorty' coaches. Mike Wiltshire Spot-on Mike. At the age of 14 or so I saved up for an Exler 'Popular' LMS corridor third. I took it to the local model shop and everyone drooled. Exley coaches were thee coaches in their day. The glossy crimson lake was a finish to aim for when started using spray equipment.....Exleys were stoved which is why it is often difficult to strip. Edited July 13, 2016 by coachmann 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 I won't! I've built two from Comet and other parts, one in post-war Ocean Mails livery (which I'm told is correct) and the other in plain Crimson. I'd be keen on more GWR coaches, but not non-corridor stock. Although almost any corridor coach diagram seems to have been recorded on almost every train photographed, non-corridor stock was built in much smaller numbers and for very specific places. Toplight suburban for Birmingham; Mainline and City/articulated stock for London. Various 57', 60', 64' and 70' types, and unlike the corridor stuff, this did tend to run in sets. Paul According to the figures in Russel / Harris there were actually quite a lot of the non-corridor suburban equivalents to the Hornby Bow Enders. Also some 54 foot versions too. D98 6 compartment brake/Thirds 50 (? Russel) E131 Composites 56 Some of these were Some Chester and Birminghm areas but not all. D101 5 compartment brake/thirds 24, E134 Composites 12 C56 Thirds 12 (the latter two with D101s for Cardiff division sets ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 To amplify Darwinian's post above: D98/E131/E131/D98 - initial allocations 18 sets Birmingham, 5 sets Chaster, 5 sets London D101/C56/E134/C56/D101 - initial allocations 10 sets Cardiff, 2 sets not traced. I'm sure John Lewis knows. Some reallocation and disbanding took place in World War 2 and soon after the formation of BR the Birmingham sets were reformed as 3 coach sets. London sets tended to be cascaded into the country as newer stock arrived. Most of the Hawksworth non-corridors started their working life in London. In London in the 1940s and Cardiff in 1953 four coach sets were replaced by five coach formations. Which 54 ft coaches did you have in mind, Darwinian? Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 To amplify Darwinian's post above: D98/E131/E131/D98 - initial allocations 18 sets Birmingham, 5 sets Chaster, 5 sets London D101/C56/E134/C56/D101 - initial allocations 10 sets Cardiff, 2 sets not traced. I'm sure John Lewis knows. Which 54 ft coaches did you have in mind, Darwinian? Chris Sorry, late night typo. Should have been 58'4". Anyway I've loojked again and - I think it was due to the bracketting in the table in Lewis being misleading as it included lot 1375 which were D95 Corridor Brake thirds. Lots 1376 - 77 are cited as 20 four coach trains but no area of allocation is given. Adrian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Lots 1376 - 77 are cited as 20 four coach trains but no area of allocation is given. Adrian. 15 Birmingham, 5 London. Chris - whose typos are not confined to late night 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 The roof vents are a poor representation of the GWR shell vent and so, as we tend to look down on models, new whitemetal castings will improve the appearance of the bow end coaches no end. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
County of Yorkshire Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 If anyone is still looking for these in GWR livery then Locomotion had all types on its shelves this afternoon - including 2 of the now very rare all-third! All at RRP (£39.99) Cheers, CoY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Just noticed these being advertised on ebay at £55, thats some markup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Very happy to say that following me getting four of the five GWR Collett Bow Ended Carriages in March, my supplier AGR Model Railway Store in Leighton Buzzard was able to get his hands on one of the rare R4679 models for me over the weekend...!! Looking forward to getting this coach tomorrow and completing my rake of GWR Collett Bow Ended Coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted August 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2016 It can't be long till the Bristolian coaches become available in the shirtbutton livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 It can't be long till the Bristolian coaches become available in the shirtbutton livery. They've arrived with Hornby now. Website updated saying they're in stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted August 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2016 It will be interesting to see if retailers split the packs on this set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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