Andrew P Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Anyway Guys, I saw it last night, seen it many times and NEVER KNEW WHAT IT WAS, what am I rambling on about, well the Milky Way of course, it was like I'd discovered a whole new world, I then kept looking at all the other Stars and wondering just how far out they are. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted May 21, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2015 Anyway Guys, I saw it last night, seen it many times and NEVER KNEW WHAT IT WAS, what am I rambling on about, well the Milky Way of course, it was like I'd discovered a whole new world, I then kept looking at all the other Stars and wondering just how far out they are. That's great news, Andy. When you said you'd seen "it" last night my thought was "here he goes again..." Anyway, you'll have to get yourself up here later in the year. If we get a clear night I'll give you a tour of the night sky. I've got a new telescope being delivered today. This is the small(ish) "spotter" scope, portable with still has full computer go-to facility. Later in the summer I'll be buying a much larger telescope to replace my 33 year old Celestron 8". Astronomy is fun but, as you've demonstrated - and others have said - it can be awe inspiring just using your eyes and no optical aid. Finally, I'd love to give you some distance scales to work with, Andy - but you'd need to recognise a few individual stars first. Here's an easy one - find the Plough. The sketch below shows the distances to its 7 stars in light years. So, for example, the light you see tonight left Alioth 81 years ago. Jeff 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) You weren't the bloke who punched me Isn't the jungle at night great, so much noise. It makes the tinnitus I have at the moment seem quiet. Did you ever work out how the flies knew that you needed a poo? Even before you dropped you trousers there would be 100 times more buzzing around than there were normally. Little things that were hard to break when you came out of the jungle like when you go to bed at night you put your boots on a pair of sticks so that are upside down, thus trying and prevent scorpions getting in them. They still needed a shake in the morning to get out all the other bugs that have made them their home over night. I dont know know about putting his boots on sticks, but my brother-in-law was until recently still in the habit of checking under his car for bombs before getting in it - a bit worrying when it's outside your house!! Understandable though after 3 tours in Northern Ireland Edited May 21, 2015 by sp1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeeleyBridge Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Boots on sticks hmm.. 48 for 4 ? It's about time certain England players were made to hang their boots on sticks. Why do I listen to such embarrassing cricket? Because I'm a masochist English dammit! It's good to hear Henry Blofelt though, he cheers me up no end. Edited May 21, 2015 by HeeleyBridge 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I dont know know about putting his boots on sticks, but my brother-in-law was until recently still in the habit of checking under his car for bombs before getting in it - a bit worrying when it's outside your house!! Understandable though after 3 tours in Northern Ireland I still do it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PeterBB Posted May 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) I do own a blue loco Andy, I'll leave it at home though I still want rabbit paella by the way. Sofia won't eat rabbit as when she was a kid, she had one as a pet. Guess what her Dad cooked. She should just be glad that they never had a bulldog as a pet Jason, Another long time ago reminder. Saturday dinner time after school and before rugby was rabbit stew with pearl barley - great. Years later one evening not knowing the programme I was asked to indicate the rabbit I preferred ... it was given to me about 10 minutes later to dissect. While managing to do so it put me right off what I was then thinking of persuing as a career. Apologies for rabbiting on! Peter Edit spelling only PBB Edited May 22, 2015 by PeterBB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Evening all, Andy, Great to read of your excitement at recognising the Milky Way - I was outside just now, staring up into it as far as the eye could see! Jeff, That is the method I used to teach my son about distances in space! Obviously, the 'light year' hadn't been devised as a unit of measurement when the first constellations were named! I believe that the ancient astronomers thought that they were viewing a planar diagram, and didn't fully comprehend the vast distances involved. What sometimes confuses the new student is the fact that the brightness of a star does not necessarily mean it is nearer than others in the constellation. I also showed the constellation under discussion in plan view alongside the face on version, with a 'roughly to scale' representation of the distances - the penny must have dropped because he scored very high marks in physics (which encompassed space at that time! There was an interesting programme on Eden channel tonight, explaining how the Earth's magnetic field protects us from the effect of solar flares. It was quite scary at times, explaining how a dip in the strength of the field, should it occur at the time of a solar event, could result in massive power outages worldwide! Apparently we are overdue a reversal of magnetic polarity at which time the Earth would be left very vulnerable to damage from solar activity. Scary how tenuous our hold on the planet really is! Kind regards, Jock. PS, Jeff I'm really very jealous about your prospective new telescope purchase - makes mine look puny, and I'm still working with manual optical alignment! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Anyway Guys, I saw it last night, seen it many times and NEVER KNEW WHAT IT WAS, what am I rambling on about, well the Milky Way of course, it was like I'd discovered a whole new world, I then kept looking at all the other Stars and wondering just how far out they are. Well done that man! Now pay attention to Jeff and he'll soon have you up to speed! Don't forget they're still looking for a replacement for Patrick Moore and I'm pretty certain the coffee mug could soon become as familiar as the famous monocle! Regards Bill 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted May 22, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2015 I put a sketch of the Plough (part of the Ursa Major constellation) in my previous post as most people can recognise it. On the other side of the North pole of the sky is the W or M of Cassiopeia, again very recognisable, even to the beginner. Its 5 main stars have a larger range of distances than the Plough stars (5 of which were formed in the same region of space), so I've added a sketch with distances in light years, below: Data is from the Hipparcos astrometric satellite. To put things in context, the middle star of the 5 (Gamma Cassiopeiae) is 610 ly away, so the light seen this evening left the star before the start of the Wars of the Roses.... Jeff 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 *snip* Data is from the Hipparcos astrometric satellite. To put things in context, the middle star of the 5 (Gamma Cassiopeiae) is 610 ly away, so the light seen this evening left the star before the start of the Wars of the Roses.... Jeff I wish I'd left the theatre before the start of The War of the Roses. Hated that film. Kathleen Turner was not funny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Morning Guys, woke up to the reports of an Earth quake in Kent this morning, never good and always worrying, the first thing I said to Dee was; there's an awful lot of Fraking going o in Kent. I'd be interested in other thoughts. Re the Stars, I will try an find the Plough and the W/M some time soon, hopefully tonight, I intended to look for the Plough last night but had been busy at Club and KNAKERED myself a bit so had an early night. Catch up laters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted May 22, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2015 I wish I'd left the theatre before the start of The War of the Roses. Hated that film. Kathleen Turner was not funny. But she was bl**dy gorgeous, so I didn't care!! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted May 22, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2015 Morning Guys, woke up to the reports of an Earth quake in Kent this morning, never good and always worrying, the first thing I said to Dee was; there's an awful lot of Fraking going o in Kent. I'd be interested in other thoughts. Re the Stars, I will try an find the Plough and the W/M some time soon, hopefully tonight, I intended to look for the Plough last night but had been busy at Club and KNAKERED myself a bit so had an early night. Catch up laters. If it'd been winter time I'd have posted you a pic with Orion at its centre - VERY easy to find and use as a guide. Later in the year, if you remind me! Don't overdo things - you know what happened last time! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Another "Tale from Morocco" if I may? This was prompted by Jason's story of rabbits! Back in my childhood days travelling in Morocco with my parents, we often used to get other tourists/travellers hooking up with us - it was a totally different culture and as white folk, we stuck out like aliens and could be quite vulnerable at times. Anyway, this BIG Irishman called Mick and his wife ended up as quite good friends with my parents and settled down near us at our usual spot in the deep south of the country. Mick and his lady settled in well being sociable sorts, they even adopted a pet goose and took it for walks on a lead. They had also made good friends with one of the really decent local families. One time Mick and his missus decided to go exploring in the interior of the country and go into the Sahara desert for a week or so. This being the case, Mick asked his Arab friend if he would look after the pet goose, called "Goosey" until they came back from their trip, no problem, of course! Off go the Irish on their adventures for a week or so and when they return, their Arab friend puts on a meal in their honour. They all enjoy a great meal, the mint tea is flowing and maybe even some wine too and at the end, Mick remembers Goosey. "How's Goosey?" he asks. "Well, you tell me" his friend says - "You've just eaten him"!!! . . . A slight miss-translation of the term "look after him until we get back"!!! I'm not sure how they felt afterwards but I'm always reminded of Homer Simpson when he eats his pet Lobster! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 OK! I did it for KL1 and KL2 (and very painful it was too!). So! Now that it's received Jeff's approval, we present the new, all-singing, all-dancing LUNESTER ASYLUM BADGE! Ta Daaah.... Just don't blame me if you ask Her Indoors to embroider it for you and you receive a negative response. They can do terrible things with a sewing needle.... Regards Bill 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted May 22, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2015 Nice one, Bill. As long as people realise that's NOT me in the picture! I'm not that good looking!! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AireValley1962 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Just to let you chaps all know that I am disappearing into a cloud of smoke for while - and will reappear when it dissipates. Until then, All the best, William P.S. Nothing serious, just that it has to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted May 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2015 Near to the star in the plough shown as 78 light years is the Pinwheel Galaxy> I never knew it was there until the Super Nova occurred it has gone much fainter now. Seeing as one SuperNova was much brighter than a whole galaxy of stars I should think one near to us could be catastropic. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted May 22, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2015 Near to the star in the plough shown as 78 light years is the Pinwheel Galaxy> I never knew it was there until the Super Nova occurred it has gone much fainter now. Seeing as one SuperNova was much brighter than a whole galaxy of stars I should think one near to us could be catastropic. Don I definitely agree with you there, Don. Type 1 Supernovae, involving the transfer of material from a large star onto a white dwarf, which then explodes, could be relatively commonplace due to the abundance of white dwarf stars in space. Such an explosion releases most of its energy as material kinetic energy and is estimated to be a significant danger to the Earth if the explosion is within around 100 light years. Type 2 Supernovae, involving the core collapse of a massive star would be rarer but if close enough, the gamma rays emitted could strip away the ozone layer and convert a lot of atmospheric nitrogen into poisonous nitrgen oxides. Dangerous/lethal to Earth at distances less than 50 light years. The nearest candidates for "imminent" explosion - within a few million years - are estimated to be at distances of 120 ly and 400 ly (type 1 and 2). We may be safe for the moment. Of course, in probability terms, we're more likely to suffer a major disaster by asteroid/comet impact long before a supernova gets us. Oh joy! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted May 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) It was good reading Jock's description of a "plan view" of a constellation as that was a concept that always fascinated me when I was younger. When you first look at the stars as a young child your understanding must be similar to that of mankind many centuries ago. There is no concept of great balls of fusion power, just pin-pricks of light all on a crystal sphere. Only as you get older do the distances start to impinge on your consciousness. But even then the numbers are too large to easily picture. A light year is almost 6,000 billion (American billion, I'm afraid as that's become common usage) miles... 6,000,000,000,000. That means that the fastest moving thing that we commonly encounter, the earth going around the sun at about 70,000 mph, would take 67,000 years to travel just one light year if it got flung off into space at that same speed. Concorde would have taken almost 350,000 years! As far as time is concerned even those sort of numbers are difficult when our average lifespan is less than 100 years and the oldest known civilisations are under 10,000 years. So I then look at the "plan view" of the plough and a bit of simple trig tells me that Alioth and Megrez (with a separation of just over 5 degrees), the two stars shown by Jeff as 81 light years away but formed in the same region of space, are "only" about four light years apart. So even the same region of space is pretty huge. Interestingly that distance is about the same as from our sun to our nearest neighbour, Proxima Centauri. So that means that if our ancestors 1.4 million years ago, instead of climbing out of the trees in Africa decided to take a Concorde towards Proxima then we, as their descendants would be just about arriving there now. I'll leave the last word on the subject to Douglas Adams who I think summed up the above perfectly... "Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space" Enjoy looking up at them tonight, but choose the walk to the chemist as the way to keep fit! Neil Edited May 22, 2015 by Anotheran 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PeterBB Posted May 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2015 Hi Guys, Many thanks for the 'illuminating' information. I have been able to pick out the plough, did once look through a telescope and realised that what I was seeing as 'white' light was in most cases 'coloured'. At times of 'special' interest have tried to 'see it' but generally failed to do so. One of the reasons is that I had always lived in very brightly lit areas and the other is not recognising the 'form' because of all the other 'stars' around. Jeff; Jock; Don; Neil etc please continue because much is becoming 'clearer' to me so thank you all. Cheers, Peter 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted May 22, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) When I was considering changing career from Physics research to Physics teaching, a good friend of mine - a Biology teacher - said that he saw the job of the teacher as "removing the bit of stone stuck under the door that prevented the door from fully opening". I liked that and took it as one of my philosophies: if I could clear the grit away, the door would be opened for students to learn more successfully. The same is very true with astronomy, Peter. If I was able to spend one clear night with you and Andy we could sweep away lots of misconceptions and highlight so many things you've probably never even thought about. Probably true with any subject. One of the beauties of open discussion on here. Eventually things "click"!! Jeff Edited May 22, 2015 by Physicsman 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Just been outside to look for the Plough, but its still to light, but which direction should I be looking later Jeff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Just been outside to look for the Plough, but its still to light, but which direction should I be looking later Jeff?'Ave a look over ya back garden fence.........oh! There it is ! Sorry couldn't resist it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted May 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2015 I definitely agree with you there, Don. Type 1 Supernovae, involving the transfer of material from a large star onto a white dwarf, which then explodes, could be relatively commonplace due to the abundance of white dwarf stars in space. Such an explosion releases most of its energy as material kinetic energy and is estimated to be a significant danger to the Earth if the explosion is within around 100 light years. Type 2 Supernovae, involving the core collapse of a massive star would be rarer but if close enough, the gamma rays emitted could strip away the ozone layer and convert a lot of atmospheric nitrogen into poisonous nitrgen oxides. Dangerous/lethal to Earth at distances less than 50 light years. The nearest candidates for "imminent" explosion - within a few million years - are estimated to be at distances of 120 ly and 400 ly (type 1 and 2). We may be safe for the moment. Of course, in probability terms, we're more likely to suffer a major disaster by asteroid/comet impact long before a supernova gets us. Oh joy! Jeff Well thats a relief then Jeff with any luck you will finish KL2 first. Don 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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