Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[Mikkel]

At the turn of the last century the 4-plank wagon was king among GWR opens, so I need to add some more to my stock. I’ve therefore started on the last of the Coopercraft 4-plank kits in my stash.  The kit has an error which means that if you build it as designed you will end up with 4 planks on the outside and 3 on the inside – as you can see here on another of my 4-plankers:
 

 
 The problem and partial solution were discussed in this thread. Following Nicks advice I cut along the red line indicated below, in order to remove most of the big fat lip on top of the solebar. This in itself lowers the floor by 1.5 mms.
 

 
 Then I sucked a solebar into the vacuum cleaner.


 
 The floor provided in the kit is 1mm thick, so I decided to gain another 0.5 mm of internal depth by replacing it with a 0.5mm styrene floor.
 


I suppose this is on the limits of how thin a floor should be, but with bracing underneath it all seems solid enough. There are two pips on the inside of each wagon end (not shown), these had to be removed to fit the new floor. As usual the solebars aren’t quite long enough, and as usual this will be fixed with filler.
 

 
Not perfect, but the bottom plank is now visible at least.



Mosts of my wagons have lever brakes but it's time I introduced some DC1 brakes too. So I splashed out on this Bill Bedford etch, which will be the next step.

[N15class]

Not totally true Mikkel .....

image.jpeg

Yours

Arfer Daley

Reminds me of fact out of a book some years ago. It was about an accident where two cars collided with each other in Redruth in the early twentieth century. Nothing unusual about that? Well seems they were the only two cars in the town. I always picture them racing around trying to find each other. Edited January 31, 2017 by N15class

[Stubby47]

Is sucking the solebar up in the vacuum in the instructions ? It seems a little extreme to me.

[Donw]

Reminds me of fact out of a book some years ago. It was about an accident where two cars collided with each other in Redruth in the early twentieth century. Nothing unusual about that? Well seems they were the only two cars in the town. I always picture them racing around trying to find each other.

 

At one time there were two cars in Much Wenlock the Doctors and the Bank Managers they met at the village of Brockton a couple of miles from Much Wenlock  since neither expected to meet the other they hadn't allowed for meeting a vehicle speeding towards them and naturally failed to stop in time resulting in a minor collision. This naturally delighted the locals who hadn't really taken to be tooted at being used to wandering down the middle of the road. The incident was still remembered by the older folk some 50 or so years later.

There was also an incident in the same area when a fishing pond which had been created with a raised bank gave way and a flood poured down the road. One of the Postmen was most surprised to be met by the sudden flow and fortunately was able to turn into a driveway sloping up from the road. Two such events in one small village.

Don

[Mikkel]

Is sucking the solebar up in the vacuum in the instructions ? It seems a little extreme to me.

 

It's a rite of passage. All modellers must go through it. One day you'll understand. 

[Northroader]

Whoops, now I know where I went wrong with my coopercraft!

[K14]

And there's this view here too, with the chimney packed away.

 

And if that is an Iron Mink at the extreme LH side, there's no 3" wide strip at the roof edge at the end, either.

The two rows of rivets on the roof strips can just be seen too on this Van, not the compressor Van.

 

Re-purposed Z.1 Gunpowder Van?

 

Wagons, 29:4

The first known GWR gunpowder vans (GPV) were 25 built, partly new and partly conversions, under osL125 between March 1874 and July 1875. There were five new GPVs 28996-29000, iron-bodied, wood-lined vans built on wooden underframes. The dimensions were 15ft 6in by 7ft 5in by 5ft 5in high on a 9ft 0in wheelbase.Their grease axleboxes and 7in by 3-1/2in journals were changed to OK oil axleboxes and 8in by 3-3/4in journals, increasing the rating from 8 to 10 tons, between 1899 and 1902. (...) The conversions under osL125 were fifteen from 1856 covered goods wagons, plus another five unknown. The fifty 1856 vans 2775-2824 were mostly 17ft 0in long by 7ft 0in by 6ft 0in high, with a 9ft 9in wheelbase (...) All 25 GPVs were condemned between 1903 and 1911, but two survived in departmental stock.

 

The Z.1 diagram (fig. 431, p.455) shows outside-framed doors which correspond to the photo, & GPVs seem to have a smaller roof overhang that doesn't cover the head of the door frame.

 

Pete S.

 

P.

[Mikkel]

Whoops, now I know where I went wrong with my coopercraft!

 

I know what you mean. You think you've got an OK model and then suddenly you get this knowledge that makes it wrong. As I see it we have three choices:

 

(i) actively avoid books and topics that might give you knowledge that you don't want

(ii) take the full consequence and build/rebuild the model until it really is 100% correct

(iii) find out what you can about the prototype, and then make a conscious and informed decision about where you will compromise and where you will not

[MikeOxon]

I know what you mean. You think you've got an OK model and then suddenly you get this knowledge that makes it wrong. As I see it we have three choices:

 

(i) actively avoid books and topics that might give you knowledge that you don't want

(ii) take the full consequence and build/rebuild the model until it really is 100% correct

(iii) find out what you can about the prototype, and then make a conscious and informed decision about where you will compromise and where you will not

 

Or, when challenged, say it is built according to 'alternative facts'

[DonB]

I know what you mean. You think you've got an OK model and then suddenly you get this knowledge that makes it wrong. As I see it we have three choices:

 

(i) actively avoid books and topics that might give you knowledge that you don't want

(ii) take the full consequence and build/rebuild the model until it really is 100% correct

(iii) find out what you can about the prototype, and then make a conscious and informed decision about where you will compromise and where you will not

 

 

Or, when challenged, say it is built according to 'alternative facts'

 

Or, Run it with a permanent load and / or sheeted

[Penlan]

As I see it we have three choices:

 

(i) actively avoid books and topics that might give you knowledge that you don't want

(ii) take the full consequence and build/rebuild the model until it really is 100% correct

(iii) find out what you can about the prototype, and then make a conscious and informed decision about where you will compromise and where you will not

No, surely there are 4 choices.

(iv) Ignore everybody else and be happy, it's how you want it to be.

 

If it runs ok, then your already ahead of 50% of modellers anyway....

... and as 'The Icon' would say, "Can a blind man on a galloping horse at 200 yards see whats wrong....".

 

I have a number of PO's that people believe are based on real one's, to start with, and of course I have various company wagons / vans that nobody else models - 'E.& W.Y.U.Rly.,'  'W Rly' (Wirral Rly), 'L & M.M.Rly' (Llanelly & Mynydd Mawr Rly), etc., Even the N & B Rly (Neath & Brecon, though admittedly 'The Icon' also models this line too, and co-authored a book).

Edited January 31, 2017 by Penlan

[Penlan]

Or, when challenged, say it is built according to 'alternative facts'

And if you start to dig into any railway companies records, there's always grey areas, even on the GWR.

 

Even try, ".....It's what it looks like in one of my Grandads photo's..."

[Northroader]

Penlan, you're my man! Option four it is, (a bit like rule 1).

Edit: now here's a funny thing! And it will teach me to check before opening my trap. I'm pretty sure my 7mm. wagon is coopercraft, but you can see peering round the back of the barrels that it does have a 4plank inside as well as out, unlike its 4mm. mate. I'm glad to say it is painted in Swindon Improved Wagon Red, too.

(I haven't put it through the vac., yet)

Edited January 31, 2017 by Northroader

[Guy Rixon]

As usual the solebars aren’t quite long enough, and as usual this will be fixed with filler.

 

If I'm understanding the wagon construction correctly, there would be an L-shaped bracket between the outside of the solebar and the headstock. If this were represented by scraps of plastic, possible with rivets pressed in, it would be another way of bridging the gap. Unless, of course, the GWR put the brackets on the inside...

[Compound2632]

And if you start to dig into any railway companies records, there's always grey areas, even on the GWR.

 

Even try, ".....It's what it looks like in one of my Grandads photo's..."

 

Never model a prototype/class member for which there is a good published photograph...

[Spitfire2865]

If I'm understanding the wagon construction correctly, there would be an L-shaped bracket between the outside of the solebar and the headstock. If this were represented by scraps of plastic, possible with rivets pressed in, it would be another way of bridging the gap. Unless, of course, the GWR put the brackets on the inside...

Most wagon drawings Ive seen have a bracket on the inside of the solebar ends which attaches to the diagonal spar and the buffer bolts.  Both on metal and wood underframes.  

So really the buffers partially or mostly hold the headstock in place.  Not much of an issue really as wagons were always "pushed" in a physics sense.  

[Nelson Jackson]

Hello Mikkel, I love the recent updates and your experimentation with the tarpaulins, very interesting to read. However can I please ask where you got the planked plasticard from? It looks like good clean scoring with a decent thickness.

[Donw]

I am a bit of a heathen on these matters. I never worry if the number I have chosen doesn't quite match the one I have modelled most of us have to look up the wagon numbers. I certainly never took notice of wagon numbers as a boy. However I do like the wagon to match some of the type at the relevant period. For example if the number I have chosen had been modified to brakes both sides at my chosen date whereas other still had one sided brakes as modelled I can live with that.  On the other hand different numbers of planks on the inside to the outside would not be possible so that would niggle.

Some things can be more tricky when you have locos that can be re-boilered with different boilers so the position of a dome say could move, or locos may have different tenders at different times. At the end of the day I am trying to achieve something believable.

Perhaps the key here is how elastic is your belief

Don 

[Penlan]

Perhaps the key here is how elastic is your belief....

I believe myself 100%, unfortunately I don't seem to be able to get the same commitment from my wife    

Edited January 31, 2017 by Penlan

[28XX]

Or, when challenged, say it is built according to 'alternative facts'

Careful. You'll be advocating fake news next.

Edited January 31, 2017 by 28XX

[Compound2632]

And if you start to dig into any railway companies records, there's always grey areas, even on the GWR.

 

... although now thought to be from 1904 onwards only.

[BG John]

... although now thought to be from 1904 onwards only.

Before that, the grey area was brake vans!

[Craigw]

I know what you mean. You think you've got an OK model and then suddenly you get this knowledge that makes it wrong. As I see it we have three choices:

 

(i) actively avoid books and topics that might give you knowledge that you don't want

(ii) take the full consequence and build/rebuild the model until it really is 100% correct

(iii) find out what you can about the prototype, and then make a conscious and informed decision about where you will compromise and where you will not

 

I recently built 2 of the Coopercraft 4 plank wagons = only used the sides and ends. nothing else left at all. I have another two to follow but the problem is I could do with another 6 at least. Might be some scratchbuilding ahead.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Mikkel]

Edit: now here's a funny thing! And it will teach me to check before opening my trap. I'm pretty sure my 7mm. wagon is coopercraft, but you can see peering round the back of the barrels that it does have a 4plank inside as well as out, unlike its 4mm. mate. I'm glad to say it is painted in Swindon Improved Wagon Red, too.IMG_0875.JPG

(I haven't put it through the vac., yet)

 

Interesting. So the 4mm and 7mm versions are not identical. Plus, the relative thicknesses are different I suppose. Good to see one in red! 

 

If I'm understanding the wagon construction correctly, there would be an L-shaped bracket between the outside of the solebar and the headstock. If this were represented by scraps of plastic, possible with rivets pressed in, it would be another way of bridging the gap. Unless, of course, the GWR put the brackets on the inside...

 

Many thanks Guy, I checked various photos of the GWR 4 plank wagons and they do have the L- bracket on the outside. So that is the solution I'll go for.

 

Hello Mikkel, I love the recent updates and your experimentation with the tarpaulins, very interesting to read. However can I please ask where you got the planked plasticard from? It looks like good clean scoring with a decent thickness.

 

Hello Nelson, glad if it was of interest.  The plasticard is Evergreen V groove  siding sheets. I happened to have the 2mm groove spacing sheet to hand (.080" thickness, ref no. EG2080) which looked OK (but don't count the floor planks). It's a bit expensive, but scribing is not my favourite modelling activity.

 

I recently built 2 of the Coopercraft 4 plank wagons = only used the sides and ends. nothing else left at all. I have another two to follow but the problem is I could do with another 6 at least. Might be some scratchbuilding ahead.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

Yes good point, I can see that to really want to solve the floor issue etc, then the sides and ends are the only really useable parts and the rest must be scratchbuilt. Mr Bedford are you listening? But that's for another thread.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Mikkel

[Craigw]

 

 

Yes good point, I can see that to really want to solve the floor issue etc, then the sides and ends are the only really useable parts and the rest must be scratchbuilt. Mr Bedford are you listening? But that's for another thread.

 

Mikkel,

 

Forgive the thread intrusion, these are my two along with two BB wagons. The Coopercraft kits use Morgan Design underframes. A few little things to finish before painting. These two will be getting tarped timber loads with the tarps following your suggestions (thank you)

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Craigw