Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[MikeOxon]

19 hours ago, mswjr said:

lining a 4mm gresley coach part 2 - YouTube

 

Have a look at this it is very good and may help.

I inherited a ruling pen and had no idea how to use it.  The video is very helpful and i shall try it out for myself.

[Lacathedrale]

@Mikkel I have used retarder medium from Vallejo with unthinned paints and it seems to work ok through the 0.25mm easi liner nib in terms of flow, although as you have seen the line width is still quite wide. I don’t trust myself to trace panels at velocity (vs. Against a ruler)

[Chas Levin]

On 01/08/2022 at 19:57, Lacathedrale said:

@Mikkel I have used retarder medium from Vallejo with unthinned paints and it seems to work ok through the 0.25mm easi liner nib in terms of flow, although as you have seen the line width is still quite wide. I don’t trust myself to trace panels at velocity (vs. Against a ruler)

Very interested to read this William, as I didn't know Vallejo made a retarder. Anything that slows drying time is helpful in this sort of work I've found. I learned to use linseed oil as an additive to enamel and it helped enomously.

Looking at other commercially available retarders, there seem to be plenty for acrylics but I can only find one for enamel, VMS's Slow-Mo Drying REtarder Medium: have you ever used that and if so, how did you find it performed?

[Lacathedrale]

I have steered very well clear of enamels since I was a teenager except for live steam where it's a much more industrial affair. I have recently tried out a fine tipped dip pen and found the results very satisfying, generally finer and at least as easy as easi-liner - notes in my workbench thread shortly.

[Chas Levin]

19 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

I have steered very well clear of enamels since I was a teenager except for live steam where it's a much more industrial affair. I have recently tried out a fine tipped dip pen and found the results very satisfying, generally finer and at least as easy as easi-liner - notes in my workbench thread shortly.

Thanks William - I thought that might be the case from your workbench thread but thought I'd ask nevertheless, in case you'd tried it at some point. Retarders - of any description - don't seem to be very widely used, do they?

[MrWolf]

They tend to be used by artists working in acrylic to increase the amount of time available for working the colours and blending on the canvas.

[Lacathedrale]

15 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

They tend to be used by artists working in acrylic to increase the amount of time available for working the colours and blending on the canvas.

 

Or people using dip pens who don't want the paint to dry on the nib? :) 

[Mikkel]

Been away so have only sneak peeked at the discussion but now up to speed, some very intersting options, thanks.

 

I just had a look at artist's dip pens and am pleasantly surprised at the variety and resonable prices (though I suppose you get what you pay for). I had assumed they were a more exclusive thing by now.

[kandc_au]

8 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

 - notes in my workbench thread shortly.

For those of us who may be unfamiliar with your wb thread....could you post alink please?

 

Khris

[Lacathedrale]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Been away so have only sneak peeked at the discussion but now up to speed, some very intersting options, thanks.

 

I just had a look at artist's dip pens and am pleasantly surprised at the variety and resonable prices (though I suppose you get what you pay for). I had assumed they were a more exclusive thing by now.

 

The Easi-liner handle fits dip pen nibs , so you just need the nibs. I lost out by a few pennies on a box of mixed vintage nibs which would have been fun to experiment with but the one I have seems to be fairly decent:

 

[Lacathedrale]

2 hours ago, kandc_au said:

For those of us who may be unfamiliar with your wb thread....could you post alink please?

 

Khris

 

Hi Khris, it's in my signature:, but here's a link to my first efforts:

 

 

 

 

[Chas Levin]

18 hours ago, MrWolf said:

They tend to be used by artists working in acrylic to increase the amount of time available for working the colours and blending on the canvas.

Ah, I understand. That's not a million miles away from why I looked into retarders - it was to increase the drying time when filling in the boundaries of rectangles with a ruling pen by blending multiple parallel touching lines together. Two or three sides at a time were fine, but I had problems trying to join the end of the fourth side to the start of the first one...

[MrWolf]

Because of the tiny amount of paint you are using, by the time you have returned to your starting point, that area of paint has already begun to dry (or "flash off" in the case of cellulose etc) and a seamless join/ blend is very tricky. A retardant prevents this happening so visibly.

[57xx]

18 hours ago, MrWolf said:

They tend to be used by artists working in acrylic to increase the amount of time available for working the colours and blending on the canvas.

 

18 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

 

Or people using dip pens who don't want the paint to dry on the nib? :) 

 

Or people spraying acrylics and wanting to stave off tip drying.

[MrWolf]

3 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

 

Or people spraying acrylics and wanting to stave off tip drying.

 

Ouch.

[kitpw]

8 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

The Easi-liner handle fits dip pen nibs , so you just need the nibs.

https://www.jacksonsart.com/search/?p=1&q=dip+pen+nibs  There are 4 pages of nibs and other dip pen equipment listed on Jackson's site.  I use Jacksons because a) they are local and I can go there and look and b) because they are very pleasant and helpful and c) because there is a cafe over the road from their shop which serves the best espresso this side of Milan - you don't get that online. (The "ballpointed" nibs work well on hand painted surfaces).

 

[Chas Levin]

4 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Because of the tiny amount of paint you are using, by the time you have returned to your starting point, that area of paint has already begun to dry (or "flash off" in the case of cellulose etc) and a seamless join/ blend is very tricky. A retardant prevents this happening so visibly.

Absolutely! however, if you're using enamel, I can recommend linseed oil (not the boiled type); I used a 5% addition and it worked very well. Less than that produced too little effect, more lengthened drying time more than necessary and delayed final curing. It does change the finish however - matt moves towards satin and satin moves towards gloss...

[richbrummitt]

On 03/08/2022 at 17:23, kitpw said:

https://www.jacksonsart.com/search/?p=1&q=dip+pen+nibs  There are 4 pages of nibs and other dip pen equipment listed on Jackson's site.  I use Jacksons because a) they are local and I can go there and look and b) because they are very pleasant and helpful and c) because there is a cafe over the road from their shop which serves the best espresso this side of Milan - you don't get that online. (The "ballpointed" nibs work well on hand painted surfaces).

 

Most interested in c, 

When I looked up Jackson’s art supplies there are three results, 2 in London and the site at Putney Bridge looks like it has several ’coffee‘ places on the opposite side of the road. 

[kitpw]

On 08/09/2022 at 20:41, richbrummitt said:

Most interested in c, 

When I looked up Jackson’s art supplies there are three results, 2 in London and the site at Putney Bridge looks like it has several ’coffee‘ places on the opposite side of the road. 

...'c' is for coffee.  Try 'Doctor Espresso' at 3 Station Approach - seen here in Google street view:

 

(View is approx south to north) Putney Bridge station on the right of picture - Jacksons are in the arches under the metalwork platform support in the right background.  

 

[robert17649]

I have used an old fashioned mapping pen with enamels and acrylics. adding a drop or two of lighter fluid to the enamels helps flow and slows drying(as per easiliner instructions) just water added to the acrylics does the same job  but Vallejo acrylic thinners ia better.

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, robert17649 said:

I have used an old fashioned mapping pen with enamels and acrylics. adding a drop or two of lighter fluid to the enamels helps flow and slows drying(as per Easiliner instructions) just water added to the acrylics does the same job  but Vallejo acrylic thinners is better.

There are two types of acrylic paints. Some are alcohol based (Tamiya, Vallejo) and some are water based (Humbrol, Revell). Isopon alcohol also makes a good thinners. You should not use water to thin out alcohol based acrylics.

[Andy Hayter]

31 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

You should not use water to thin out alcohol based acrylics.

 

Why?

 

I have successfully done it for scenic work.

[PhilJ W]

2 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

Why?

 

I have successfully done it for scenic work.

That was the advice many years ago when acrylics were 'new'. IIRC it was something to do with drying times.

[Penlan]

The 'dipping' pen nib I used for many years in lettering PO wagons was the Gillott's '303' nib.
The main thing was to have a proper sized holder, something easy to grip, not some slim-line affair like they sell as mapping pens holders.

[Mikkel]

On 12/09/2022 at 10:22, PhilJ W said:

There are two types of acrylic paints. Some are alcohol based (Tamiya, Vallejo) and some are water based (Humbrol, Revell). Isopon alcohol also makes a good thinners. You should not use water to thin out alcohol based acrylics.

 

Hi Phil, as I understand it, the Vallejo Model Color and Model Air ranges are water-based (see here and here). I always thin the Vallejo Model Color paints with waters and get good results.

 

However, some other paints in the range do seem to be alcohol-based, which I didn't know -  e.g. some of the metallics, see here.

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Mikkel