GeoffBird Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Thank you for such a quick and definitive reply, Graham. I assume also that the "original condition" is as pictured on P2 of the Irwell Press book, i.e. with a matt Malachite finish, "unlucky" horseshoe "Southern" on the door and the front numberplate on the sloping face of the front (later removed to the lower vertical face when the scond step was added. Great, I have ordered one and can't wait for it to arrive. Hopefully, a Version in BR Blue will appear in 2017 when my wallet has recovered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted December 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2015 Thank you for such a quick and definitive reply, Graham. I assume also that the "original condition" is as pictured on P2 of the Irwell Press book, i.e. with a matt Malachite finish, "unlucky" horseshoe "Southern" on the door and the front numberplate on the sloping face of the front (later removed to the lower vertical face when the scond step was added. Great, I have ordered one and can't wait for it to arrive. Hopefully, a Version in BR Blue will appear in 2017 when my wallet has recovered. Your assumption about 21C1 is indeed correct. the electric lamps will also be in the original position on the vertical face before being repositioned later to the sloping face. I pretty certain that at some stage a BR Blue version of a Merchant Navy will be on the cards. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I wonder, given the tooling for the C/D 5100g tender already exists under the Hornby name, if we'll ever see a model like this... https://www.facebook.com/35011GSN/photos/a.1483590051935177.1073741828.1483385918622257/1548541562106692/?type=3&theaterRegards, Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/cattle-wagon-decoration-samples-and-the-merchant-navy-updates/ Edited August 19, 2016 by MGR Hooper! 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/cattle-wagon-decoration-samples-and-the-merchant-navy-updates/ Thanks. I hope the green on 35028 doesn't look as awful on the final model as it does on my screen... Hornby's website images of MN/WC/BB locos have looked ok up to now, but this seems to be heading in a similar direction as the awful green used on the BR(W) Kings. Edited August 19, 2016 by brushman47544 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2016 I wonder, given the tooling for the C/D 5100g tender already exists under the Hornby name, if we'll ever see a model like this... https://www.facebook.com/35011GSN/photos/a.1483590051935177.1073741828.1483385918622257/1548541562106692/?type=3&theater Regards, Matt I already bought a spare tender body (spotted at a show) in the hope of them doing something close enough to use it.......... John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Who else cringes every time they say "Un-rebuilt"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Who else cringes every time they say "Un-rebuilt"? I know we have had this discussion before, in other threads, but while "unrebuilt" (or "un-rebuilt") are not ideal terms, 1. we all know what is meant by them, and 2. "original" doesn't cut it when there were so many modifications and variations from the original Channel Packet as built originally! That said, I think maybe Hornby could refer to 21C1 as illustrated as "original", but that may not apply to some of the other "unrebuilt" versions they are to produce. I don't think there is any "perfect" terminology, given the nature of Bulleid's beasts!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2016 I know we have had this discussion before, in other threads, but while "unrebuilt" (or "un-rebuilt") are not ideal terms, 1. we all know what is meant by them, and 2. "original" doesn't cut it when there were so many modifications and variations from the original Channel Packet as built originally! That said, I think maybe Hornby could refer to 21C1 as illustrated as "original", but that may not apply to some of the other "unrebuilt" versions they are to produce. I don't think there is any "perfect" terminology, given the nature of Bulleid's beasts!! But 'streamlined' the rebuilds certainly weren't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2016 Who else cringes every time they say "Un-rebuilt"? Just told Hornby on their forum to stop referring to them as such, I didn't go so far as to mention that a large detachment of the malachite green and sunshine yellow striped robe wearing crowd where en-route to Sandwich... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2016 I know we have had this discussion before, in other threads, but while "unrebuilt" (or "un-rebuilt") are not ideal terms, 1. we all know what is meant by them, and 2. "original" doesn't cut it when there were so many modifications and variations from the original Channel Packet as built originally! That said, I think maybe Hornby could refer to 21C1 as illustrated as "original", but that may not apply to some of the other "unrebuilt" versions they are to produce. I don't think there is any "perfect" terminology, given the nature of Bulleid's beasts!! Air smoothed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) I know we have had this discussion before, in other threads, but while "unrebuilt" (or "un-rebuilt") are not ideal terms, 1. we all know what is meant by them, and 2. "original" doesn't cut it when there were so many modifications and variations from the original Channel Packet as built originally! That said, I think maybe Hornby could refer to 21C1 as illustrated as "original", but that may not apply to some of the other "unrebuilt" versions they are to produce. I don't think there is any "perfect" terminology, given the nature of Bulleid's beasts!! Air Smoothed is a much better term to use, as original will only apply to 21C1 and even with that particular loco, only for a short space of time. Edited August 19, 2016 by toboldlygo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I know we have had this discussion before, in other threads, but while "unrebuilt" (or "un-rebuilt") are not ideal terms, 1. we all know what is meant by them, and 2. "original" doesn't cut it when there were so many modifications and variations from the original Channel Packet as built originally! That said, I think maybe Hornby could refer to 21C1 as illustrated as "original", but that may not apply to some of the other "unrebuilt" versions they are to produce. I don't think there is any "perfect" terminology, given the nature of Bulleid's beasts!! Almost all classes were subject to variations in the design, either between batches, or from improvements in aerodynamics and performance - but it wouldn't make them 'unoriginal'. But, 'Un-rebuilt' would imply the locos had been rebuilt, and then converted back. The rebuilds were, as near as makes no difference, an entirely different class that utilised the existing parts in the design. The GSN project will be the only legitimate use of the term "Un-rebuilt". Personally, I prefer "As-Built" or "Air-Smoothed". Or even no prefix at all, given it's how they were designed, and not a subsequent modification. Regards, Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Looking at all those detailed differences, I might just have to buy all 4 of them! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Mr Bulleid's constant fiddling pulls Hornby out of the financial mire? 'Air Smoothed Merchant Navy' is way and away the simplest unequivocal description for this class until the Jarvis rebuild occurred, as the air smoothed casing was removed as part of the rebuild. The other title might be 'Pre-rebuild Merchant Navy'? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Abel Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) I hate to complain - but I'm going to ANYWAY So, "Channel Packet" and "Royal Mail", two NEW and excellent choices but ONLY in the Southern livery. Don't Hornby realize there was more than ONE MN class loco in BR livery (sarcasm mode)? I'd love the AIR SMOOTHED MN in BR livery, but I already HAVE "Clan Line". Maybe they have an extra supply of "2" and "8" for some reason - c'mon folks, can't anyone be the LEAST bit creative and produce another number <yawn> So far they've released it as a loco in EIGHT model years and in a set in FIVE model years as best I can tell. Maybe BR had more than ONE 35028 running (more sarcasm) I KNOW I can renumber the bloody thing, which is what I'll have to do, but can't we, FOR ONCE, see different member of the class than this, they managed it for the Southern ones... Edited August 19, 2016 by Ian Abel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFFTHE RAILS Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Whilst on the subject of correct naming - because the locos kept their frames, 2 cylinders, wheels and boiler, British Railways called the Jarvis rebuilds "Modified Pacifics" rather than rebuilds. This was presumably because British Railways was still "rebuilding" the Fowler Scots and in BR and LMS parlance a "rebuild" didn't use anything of the originals....... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2016 Isn't there a BR blue one in the offing or did it get cancelled? Thought I might get one for its novelty factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I am waiting for Hornby to make a blue one before I buy one. No-one is making any Bulleid coaches in Southern malachite green livery to go with the Southern Merchant Navy Pacifics so without matching coaches the Southern Pacifics do not appeal to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2016 Whilst on the subject of correct naming - because the locos kept their frames, 2 cylinders, wheels and boiler, British Railways called the Jarvis rebuilds "Modified Pacifics" rather than rebuilds. This was presumably because British Railways was still "rebuilding" the Fowler Scots and in BR and LMS parlance a "rebuild" didn't use anything of the originals....... Ian The last of the Scot rebuilds (46137) pre dates the first MN rebuild (35018) by at least 3 years.They were not concurrent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2016 I am waiting for Hornby to make a blue one before I buy one. No-one is making any Bulleid coaches in Southern malachite green livery to go with the Southern Merchant Navy Pacifics so without matching coaches the Southern Pacifics do not appeal to me. An understandable stance but it won't stop this particular Bulleid freak.Given Hornby's outstanding recent success with the Colletts and LSWR rebuilds,it surely won't be long ? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Bachmann are in the Thanet train pack........... I am waiting for Hornby to make a blue one before I buy one. No-one is making any Bulleid coaches in Southern malachite green livery to go with the Southern Merchant Navy Pacifics so without matching coaches the Southern Pacifics do not appeal to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivegreen Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) Thanks. I hope the green on 35028 doesn't look as awful on the final model as it does on my screen... Hornby's website images of MN/WC/BB locos have looked ok up to now, but this seems to be heading in a similar direction as the awful green used on the BR(W) Kings. Good grief, give them a break! The announcement is welcome and, as Hornby say, they are computer-generated pictures. Better, surely, to be patient and wait for the final result, is it not? (Minor edit) Edited August 19, 2016 by olivegreen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I am waiting for Hornby to make a blue one before I buy one. No-one is making any Bulleid coaches in Southern malachite green livery to go with the Southern Merchant Navy Pacifics so without matching coaches the Southern Pacifics do not appeal to me. Did they not pull Maunsell coaches then? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2016 Good grief, give them a break! The announcement is welcome and, as Hornby say, they are computer-generated pictures. Better, surely, to be patient and wait for the final result, is it not? (Minor edit) No because a computer generated image, that has had the colours nuances compressed out to make it smaller, shown on an uncalibrated computer screen has to match some ones at least 70 year old memory or photo precisely. Otherwise Hornby are a complete fiasco. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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