well filled baps The Sheep Chronicles. The adventures of a Sheep, the Works Forecat and the Works Apprentice, George.

[Donw]

2 hours ago, Barclay said:

I would say have a go at building your own track, this thread is evidence that you more than have the necessary skills. 

 

As to the points, I do find all this confusing - I last used Peco track in the 1980's and with their standard 'electrofrog' points there was never any bother - why did they change the design? Now people seem to need frog juicers and all sorts. If they were wired up in the same way as hand built points, i.e. the gap between frog assembly and closure rails is perhaps 1/2 inch further down, and the frog/crossing assembly is either one polarity or the other, in its entirety,  then there is never an opportunity for a short. What am I missing?

 

Peco wanted to make the same turnout usuable as both Electrofrog or Insulfrog hence Unifrog . I think this would work IF you can control the wheels used to suit. Sadly manufacturers seem to have different views on what standard to use. It suggests to me is insnt quite working out as well as expected.

Making your own turnouts you can avoid the problems. However If you extend the crossing area on a compact layout you may find yourself backing onto the crossing area of a turnout set against you. That is where frog juicers are handy as they will avoid a short. They are also useful in that they do not need adjustment unlike microswitches and the like so handy is access to the underside of a baseboard is a nuisance. 

Where you have tight curves the last thing you need is gauge narrowing, gauge widening would be better.

 

Rob something continental might well be the mojo lift you need. I believe you may be familiar with Northroader's Beyond Dover thread very inspirational.

 

Don

[Barclay]

Agreed - I dabble in American HO myself, it's nice to have something completely different to mess around with.

[Tim Dubya]

5 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Absolutely. When I was demonstrating copperclad point-building at shows, the usual comment was "I couldn't do that" or similar. My response was always "Have a go. Your first one will be rubbish. Your second one will work but might not look too good. Your third will be fine and you'll never look back".

 

I'd also add to that to experiment with different media in construction.  I absolutely love ply and rivet construction for example, but it takes ages 🤪.   I think I'll go with ply and plastic chairs, with the occasional rivet strategically placed (and powering the track from beneath), when I get aroundtoit, SMP for the not so fancy bits.

 

[37Oban]

14 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Absolutely. When I was demonstrating copperclad point-building at shows, the usual comment was "I couldn't do that" or similar. 

Many years ago I demonstrated building N gauge points at the Hull show and got the same reaction!  They soon got quiet when they saw, my then 9yr old daughter, soldering scale 60' panels and a turnout or two!

 

Roja

[NHY 581]

Thanks all..

 

Having discussed things trackwork with Tim before all of this there is no way I'd go 00 F/S.  Frankly, I don't see the point ( ! ). 

 

I want a finescale appearance and functionality which copes with the varying wheel standards we appear to have encountered. The 00 British Finescale A5 appears to offer this and I am aware that Tim has tried various locos, RTR and kitbuilt,  through his without incident. 

 

I no longer believe that the Peco Bullhead medium radius pointwork  offers this. Mine will be now be consigned to a dark corner and forgotten. 

 

Last weekend , I built a baseboard on which to test out a few things along with a small additional board, which could act as a fiddle yard. They are very simple with more than a few rough edges but they'll do for now.  I'm honestly quite happy with them, considering I've not built a baseboard in probably 15 plus years. Even this provided quite a few "learning opportunities ". 

 

 

 

The top is temporarily in place and needs to be removed to be notched for wiring etc. The breakfast tray beneath provides sufficient support as the baseboard currently weighs in at 2.5 kg so nice and light....and I have more than enough trays to support this plus any fiddle yard. 

 

I made it 100mm deep to accommodate large point motors such as those by  Tortoise or Cobalt which is a good thing as the original idea was to try PECO twistlock point motors with the Bullhead points. However, using kit built points means that I'll need a point motor suitable for "non latching" points and I'm pretty certain the Twistlick jobs aren't. 

 

But at least the basics are there to carry on if I can get through the current frustration. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[Izzy]

I think the main area of concern with bullhead point construction is that apart from the soldered type, whether using PCB sleepers or ply and rivet, there is no way to fix the stock rails in place in the slide chair positions except by subsequent gluing. So they can bow inwards causing gauge narrowing. This will be exacerbated with the diverging stock rail if the ‘set’ is not put into it. I have never handled a Peco bullhead point but none the less I am fairly certain they are not doing this and is thus at the heart of the issue, and showing up particularly with the tighter radius medium turnout. They are relying on the other chairs to hold the rail in place and so a curved stock rail through the planning area is what results whereas it should be straight, to match the point blades. 
 

I would guess this requirement also exists with those making up the British Finescale turnouts, the need to put a set into the diverging route, otherwise the same problem will arise, and again be most noticeable with the tightest radius A5. 
 

Bob

[paulbb]

The baseboard looks very neat Rob, clearly 15 years rest has done you some good. 😁What type and size/dimensions of wood did you use to keep the weight down to 2.5kg?

regards

Paul

[MPR]

2 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

...I made it 100mm deep to accommodate large point motors such as those by  Tortoise or Cobalt which is a good thing as the original idea was to try PECO twistlock point motors with the Bullhead points. However, using kit built points means that I'll need a point motor suitable for "non latching" points and I'm pretty certain the Twistlick jobs aren't. 

 

But at least the basics are there to carry on if I can get through the current frustration. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

Hi Rob

I always recommend diagonal bracing - it will enormously increase the torsional rigidity of the board.

(It can always be added after you have decided point motor location)

Edited July 25 by MPR
Spelling!

[NHY 581]

Afternoon all, 

 

I've decided I'm going to work through this and rather than air any further irritation/ frustration/ general malaise/ grumping / desire to literally hurl the toys from the pram on here I'll update if and when I've made any progress. 

 

There are obviously options available but scratch building using copper clad sleepers or wooden/rivet sleepers is not one of them. 

 

As I say, I'll report back in due course. 

 

Rob. 

[woodenhead]

@NHY 581 I know what you mean about not expressing every frustration.

 

Below is on third of an overall roof I want for my station, it’s 45cm and needs two more making for the width of the proposed station.

 

This is the third incarnation, one using a different clear plastic, a second that required me to cut grooves for ventilation supports before I arrived at this one where I have simplified a bit and will add the vents later.  This is the first one to be glued and I am happy to continue with this version.

 

It looks all glass, but Ive done that for strength, some painted plasticard over the clear stuff will represent the other parts and it needs ends as well.

 

But it’s been a frustrating sweary journey so far.

Edited July 25 by woodenhead

[Donw]

If you are having problems with keep the rail in place where there are slide chairs replace on of them with a bit of PCB or brass shim araldited in place. For 7mm I find 4mm PCB point sleepering just the right thickness. For 2mm I used thin brass.  Solder the stock rail in place not using too much solder.  You can cut back any on the outside and glue half a chair on.  one sleeper in the middle should be sufficient. An alternative is a brass panel pin inserted alongside the rail to which you can solder it is an alternative 

note 5min Araldite will soften with heat but harden again when cool.

 

For turnouts I found Tortoises brilliant. They only need rough adjustment as they are self adjusting no issues with temperature changes.  I never had problems using the C/O contacts for frog switching.  The cons are the price and the depth needed.

 

Don  

[F-UnitMad]

6 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Or I simply say sod British 4mm,  go European HO O Scale

Just fixed that for you, Rob.... 🥳🤩

[Gilbert]

3 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Frankly, I don't see the point ( ! ). 

It might turn out OK.....or it may not of course...

[F-UnitMad]

6 hours ago, Gilbert said:

US HO with Peco track  and Kadees - once you've done that it rather colours your view of other scales and track systems...it's great fun to play trains...reliable and consistent...

Chris

Exactly why some of us left British OO behind decades ago. 👍

I have since moved on from US HO, up to US O scale. 😎

[Tortuga]

10 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Thanks all..

 

Having discussed things trackwork with Tim before all of this there is no way I'd go 00 F/S.  Frankly, I don't see the point ( ! ). 

 

I want a finescale appearance and functionality which copes with the varying wheel standards we appear to have encountered. The 00 British Finescale A5 appears to offer this and I am aware that Tim has tried various locos, RTR and kitbuilt,  through his without incident. 

 

I no longer believe that the Peco Bullhead medium radius pointwork  offers this. Mine will be now be consigned to a dark corner and forgotten. 

 

Last weekend , I built a baseboard on which to test out a few things along with a small additional board, which could act as a fiddle yard. They are very simple with more than a few rough edges but they'll do for now.  I'm honestly quite happy with them, considering I've not built a baseboard in probably 15 plus years. Even this provided quite a few "learning opportunities ". 

 

 

 

The top is temporarily in place and needs to be removed to be notched for wiring etc. The breakfast tray beneath provides sufficient support as the baseboard currently weighs in at 2.5 kg so nice and light....and I have more than enough trays to support this plus any fiddle yard. 

 

I made it 100mm deep to accommodate large point motors such as those by  Tortoise or Cobalt which is a good thing as the original idea was to try PECO twistlock point motors with the Bullhead points. However, using kit built points means that I'll need a point motor suitable for "non latching" points and I'm pretty certain the Twistlick jobs aren't. 

 

But at least the basics are there to carry on if I can get through the current frustration. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

Nice bit of woodwork there Rob!

 

I’ve said earlier in this topic (I think) that the British Finescale points look to be a good “halfway house” between PECO’s ready to lay offerings and C&Ls point kits. Having now read the product development thread, my opinion has only been strengthened and I’m seriously considering whether to use British Finescale products on my own projects in the future.

 

Regarding point motors: I used SEEPs offerings on Whaley Shunt and they’re working fine. The majority are the non-locking type, but one has the over centre spring since it was needed to operate a PECO point that had been butchered to remove its locking spring. All of the motors use the integrated ‘switch’ to change the polarity of the frogs without issue or failure (so far, touch wood, etc.) and they’re my first attempt at wiring up a layout without dead-frog points.

[NHY 581]

Morning all, 

 

I've just come across this lovely piece of work........

 

 

The excellent finish gives no indication of actually how tricky, though on the face of it seemingly straightforward, this conversion was. Definitely not just a case of moving the filler cap. 

 

Rob. 

 

Edited July 29 by NHY 581

[NHY 581]

In other news, an update. 

 

The fiddly yard has now been put together to match the new base board.  I'm currently adjusting the fit to improve the board to board joint which isn't good enough. 

 

Pointwork will be British Finescale. Tim ( CK ) has kindly forwarded a BF A5 point for evaluation but as of yet I've not had a play as I was baseboard fettling in the garden yesterday. There's a lot to be said for al fresco modelling ! The beauty of small layouts I say. 

 

As to the layout itself yes, the 'test piece' has morphed into a simple light railway terminus. It will flip between GER ( when the Accurascale 0.6.0Ts arrive ) and SE&CR/  Light Railway. Whilst the main body of the layout will be unchanged, I'm looking to have a couple of identical station buildings to plug/unplug to alter the company. The name boards won't change and the layout will be called Blackwater Pier.  Firmly based on Tollesbury Pier, it will have the bare minimum of scenery and few, if any buildings other than the station building/platform. Simples. 

 

 

The object of this remains the same. To teach me what to most of you has been the norm for  many years, I'm sure. The end result is hopefully DCC control for locos with traditional analogue control of the points. 

 

I'm putting no timescale on this. It's done when it's done and I'll work on it when I feel like it. 

 

So that appears to be that for now. 

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 29 by NHY 581
Rs

[Northroader]

pinch the scenic ideas from Wisdom art prints?

 

Edited July 29 by Northroader

[2E Sub Shed]

Not Tollesbury Pier, but another similar backwater SECR location in 1947, film preceded by item on a LMS rural station.

 

Pathe film - Port Victoria

Edited July 29 by 2E Sub Shed
correction to text

[SteveyDee68]

1 hour ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

Not Tollesbury Pier, but another similar backwater SECR location in 1947, film preceded by item on a LMS rural station.

 

Pathe film - Port Victoria

An interesting film, indeed, and two good shots of the water tank/tower provided (something I’m busy looking into right now!)

 

Steve S

[SteveyDee68]

Looking at the 10cm deep framing on your new baseboards makes me think that my own attempts may be* lacking in depth.

 

Having put together three boards out of plywood and framing (actually, two - one was cut into two to provide two boards!), one purely out of ply (using laminated sides), and an experimental foamboard baseboard for a micro, I realise that I enjoy the process immensely even if the results aren’t always as good as I might wish! I think being a musician means I enjoy the fact I have something “tangible” at the end - music making 99% of the time happens and then is “gone” with nothing left to show for it…

 

Crikey, that’s a depressing realisation for a sunny Monday morning!

 

In any case, two pages ago you showed off a super EM “test piece” by Mark James Daniels 👏, so having got myself a code 75 point and a couple of pieces of matching flexi track I finally know what I can do with the shortest board I have in stock (3’ x 10”, if I remember rightly).

 

Totally agree about al fresco baseboard building/modelling!

 

Steve S

 

* No “may be” about it - definitely not deep enough! 

 

 

 

Edited July 29 by SteveyDee68
Changed “Mark” to “James” - Mark Daniels is a local magician and children’s entertainer!!

[2E Sub Shed]

4 hours ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

Not Tollesbury Pier, but another similar backwater SECR location in 1947, film preceded by item on a LMS rural station.

 

Pathe film - Port Victoria

 

 Pathe News - Port Victoria 1939

 

Same staff as 1947 

 

[steve45]

So looking forward to this Rob.

 

Tollesbury branch is one of my favourites and I'm contemplating that my next layout, using a Really Useful Christmas Tree Box, will be very loosely based on the branch. I intend to run a J15 and J70 (without skirts - an indication of how loosely based it will be) as well as a J68. 

Contemplating using a grounded coach for the station waiting room.

Just waiting for Accurascale to release an East Anglia engine and then will get started.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NHY 581]

9 hours ago, steve45 said:

So looking forward to this Rob.

 

Tollesbury branch is one of my favourites and I'm contemplating that my next layout, using a Really Useful Christmas Tree Box, will be very loosely based on the branch. I intend to run a J15 and J70 (without skirts - an indication of how loosely based it will be) as well as a J68. 

Contemplating using a grounded coach for the station waiting room.

Just waiting for Accurascale to release an East Anglia engine and then will get started.

 

 

Morning Steve. 

 

For me, the GER/ East Anglian identity of Blackwater Pier hinges on the release of Accurascale 's  Buckjumpers. However, I do have a non-westo J15 ( low roof ) in L&NER livery and with AS doing a plain black L&NER J68 that would take care of the motive power. Both are pre-1946 renumbering. Oddly, I still see modelling the L&NER period as ex-GER modelling rather than modelling the L&NER. L&NER modellers are a bit odd so I need to place a bit of distance between us........

 

But I agree that a proper East Anglian J67/68/69 is needed. Thankfully AS have hinted that these are pencilled in for batch 2 so hooves crossed they do appear. 

 

The coaching stock is made up of Hattons six wheelers so I just need a handful of  suitable wagons. 

 

For the alternative reality of a SE&CR location, I have pretty much everything with motive power being as envisaged for Lambsdown, a Terrier and a P class. A couple of four wheel Hattons coaches and an assortment of wagons. 

 

So if nothing else, the above might suggest that despite having one siding , three points in total and probably no more that one building sat amidst minimal scenery, there is enough to keep me amused. 

 

Rob.

[Ramblin Rich]

This is a real break with previous work Rob.

- No IKEA baseboard

- No sheep reference in the name.

We won't know its yours! 😉

Seriously though, I hope  this goes well. It will be even more of a must-see with the improvement in trackwork. I'm sure not having a deadline will lead to a more enjoyable build.