Class 800 - Updates

[rodent279]

Better than the rather dull uninspiring GWR livery.

[Gwiwer]

21 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Better than the rather dull uninspiring GWR livery.

Arguable point there.  I'm not a fan of trains being used as mobile billboards and am definitely opposed to adverts, bits of livery or anything much else obscuring the windows.  Not least because as speeds have risen windows have become smaller and part of the enjoyment of travel is - in many cases - to see out.  The same applies to those abominations which are Contra-Vision covered buses.  

[St. Simon]

30 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Arguable point there.  I'm not a fan of trains being used as mobile billboards and am definitely opposed to adverts, bits of livery or anything much else obscuring the windows.  Not least because as speeds have risen windows have become smaller and part of the enjoyment of travel is - in many cases - to see out.  The same applies to those abominations which are Contra-Vision covered buses.  

Hi Rick,

 

On that unit, the vinyl isn’t covering any windows, the wrap is on the kitchen vehicle (I didn’t see the other end, but I assume it does), so the windows are already covered.

 

I don’t think there’s much problem in advertising on trains, although some (such as Southern 313s and the Northern Advert Trains) do it better than others, after all it’s revenue and that is what the industry is in desperate need of!

 

Simon

[Steadfast]

9 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

On that unit, the vinyl isn’t covering any windows, the wrap is on the kitchen vehicle (I didn’t see the other end, but I assume it does), so the windows are already covered

Only vinyled at one end. The blue and yellow makes a nice change to the dull GWR green. 802106 by the way

 

Jo

[rodent279]

49 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Arguable point there.  I'm not a fan of trains being used as mobile billboards and am definitely opposed to adverts, bits of livery or anything much else obscuring the windows.  Not least because as speeds have risen windows have become smaller and part of the enjoyment of travel is - in many cases - to see out.  The same applies to those abominations which are Contra-Vision covered buses.  

Liveries are always going to be controversial amongst the enthusiast community. GWR livery doesn't do it for me, neither really does the advertising, but it does brighten things up a bit.

I'm with you on small windows, definitely a step backwards, but probably as you say tied up with higher speeds and the need for greater vehicle strength.

[Gwiwer]

9 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Hi Rick,

 

On that unit, the vinyl isn’t covering any windows, the wrap is on the kitchen vehicle (I didn’t see the other end, but I assume it does), so the windows are already covered.

 

I don’t think there’s much problem in advertising on trains, although some (such as Southern 313s and the Northern Advert Trains) do it better than others, after all it’s revenue and that is what the industry is in desperate need of!

 

Simon

Fair points especially revenue. But - as an example - TfL has end-to-end advertising inside tube cars but never ever outside. Something similar could be done … 

 

GWR green is less than inspired and looks very dull except on the brightest of days. Whether a promotion or advertising wrap enhances that is largely a matter of personal opinion. 
 

Another variation on the theme is SWRs current White Ribbon awareness campaign with small but noticeable vinyls added to the livery. 

[Gwiwer]

9 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Liveries are always going to be controversial amongst the enthusiast community. GWR livery doesn't do it for me, neither really does the advertising, but it does brighten things up a bit.

I'm with you on small windows, definitely a step backwards, but probably as you say tied up with higher speeds and the need for greater vehicle strength.

As an indicator of how varied personal opinions are I find LNER to be a refined, smart, attractive and modern style which is much more than just red and white. 
 

Among the 8xx operators GWR green is dull and flat, Lumo stands out but is also too plain and needs relief, Hull Trains is rather flat and TPX is superb despite being complex as it retains empathy with the designs and says “we are here - we are fast”. 
 

Ray Stenning probably has the right touch - at least most of the time - in creating public transport liveries which attract attention without much controversy. And if they attract attention then they might also attract business. 

[corneliuslundie]

Re windows, I usually find when I am on a train (such as yesterday) that I am the only person looking out rather than immersed in their phone or iPad. Actually not completely true, some times people talk loudly to their friends - but still don't look out the windows.

Jonathan

[rodent279]

34 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

As an indicator of how varied personal opinions are I find LNER to be a refined, smart, attractive and modern style which is much more than just red and white. 
 

Among the 8xx operators GWR green is dull and flat, Lumo stands out but is also too plain and needs relief, Hull Trains is rather flat and TPX is superb despite being complex as it retains empathy with the designs and says “we are here - we are fast”. 
 

Ray Stenning probably has the right touch - at least most of the time - in creating public transport liveries which attract attention without much controversy. And if they attract attention then they might also attract business. 

Yes, of all the 80x liveries, LNER suits them best. It reflects the shape & form of the trains well.

[Arun Sharma]

 

8 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

 But - as an example - TfL has end-to-end advertising inside tube cars but never ever outside.

Not entirely correct - viz., the Yellow Pages C stock train and the United Airlines 1973 Stock Piccadilly Line train. For some reason RMWeb doesn't seem to want me to add a pic of the YP train.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Arun Sharma

[Afroal05]

For those who haven't seen it, 802106's promotional wrap (taken the same day St. Simon posted it here, 19th Nov).

Vinyls applied to the first class driving vehicle, base colour is a dark blue. A nice vibrant splash of colour to see out and about.

 

An oddity about the vinyl appear to be that the last number (802106) appears to be in a different font and colour, like it was an afterthought! 

It'll be interesting to see the level of mess (if any) the vinyls leave behind when they are stripped.

 

 

 

 

 

[corneliuslundie]

Not sure about that one. Brighter than GWR green, yes, but not to my taste.

Jonathan

[Gwiwer]

As that's the kitchen car I hope this set isn't diagrammed to the Pullman dining services 😂

 

[Afroal05]

10 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

As that's the kitchen car I hope this set isn't diagrammed to the Pullman dining services 😂

 

 

Funny you should mention that. It is to be used 'as a last resort' apparently...

Feels like a bit of a knee jerk/over sensitive reaction really. Are people actually going to refuse to partake in Pullman dining because of an advertising livery?!

[125_driver]

53 minutes ago, Afroal05 said:

 

Funny you should mention that. It is to be used 'as a last resort' apparently...

Feels like a bit of a knee jerk/over sensitive reaction really. Are people actually going to refuse to partake in Pullman dining because of an advertising livery?!

I believe its more to do to with keeping it on the diagrams that run through Swindon and not down to the south west (someone in Fleet allocation is a bit of a ned and presumably wants something a little more interesting to travel to and from work in!)

Same thing happened with 43002 . Always on the Penzance route, UNTIL it got BR blue and yellow colour scheme. After that it rarely was used on the B and H and was used mainly on the route through Swindon. Its amazing what having someone "keen" in control can do to a trains whereabouts! 

Edited December 3, 2022 by 125_driver

[billbedford]

1 hour ago, Afroal05 said:

An oddity about the vinyl appear to be that the last number (802106) appears to be in a different font and colour, like it was an afterthought! 

 

Looks like they'd run out of sixes and used an upside down nine...

[Afroal05]

18 minutes ago, 125_driver said:

I believe its more to do to with keeping it on the diagrams that run through Swindon and not down to the south west (someone in Fleet allocation is a bit of a ned and presumably wants something a little more interesting to travel to and from work in!)

Same thing happened with 43002 . Always on the Penzance route, UNTIL it got BR blue and yellow colour scheme. After that it rarely was used on the B and H and was used mainly on the route through Swindon. Its amazing what having someone "keen" in control can do to a trains whereabouts! 

 

Unfortunately not the case. Hitachi manage the IET allocations and pass these on to GWR Control overnight, GWR can change these by request but this is usually only to help deliver an exam requirement (for which they are fairly sympathetically allocated anyway). From personal experience I wouldn't describe any of the Hitachi Controllers as neds!

'106 has done a lot of work in the West of England since the vinyls have been applied (it's actually worked all over the place). 

I can assure you, with decent authority, that it is currently listed as 'last resort' on Pullmans and those at Hitachi who plan the allocations have been briefed the same.

 

All other GWR stock, I agree, can have an element of fudgery to them (although that is still quite difficult with current availability levels). HSTs used to have a dedicated planner in the Control centre who was very enthusiastic and did manage the allocations accordingly!

Edited December 3, 2022 by Afroal05
Typos

[125_driver]

15 minutes ago, Afroal05 said:

 

Unfortunately not the case. Hitachi manage the IET allocations and pass these on to GWR Control overnight, GWR can change these by request but this is usually only to help deliver an exam requirement (for which they are fairly sympathetically allocated anyway). From personal experience I wouldn't describe any of the Hitachi Controllers as neds!

'106 has done a lot of work in the West of England since the vinyls have been applied (it's actually worked all over the place). 

I can assure you, with decent authority, that it is currently listed as 'last resort' on Pullmans and those at Hitachi who plan the allocations have been briefed the same.

 

All other GWR stock, I agree, can have an element of fudgery to them (although that is still quite difficult with current availability levels). HSTs used to have a dedicated planner in the Control centre who was very enthusiastic and did manage the allocations accordingly!

Well I'm glad you confirm my suspicions re the GWR owned stuff. 002 used to follow me around on a weekly basis (I'm a Plymouth driver) , until mid 2016. After that i only drove it once in the final 3 years. Its kind of sad that someone in control would be quite so self centered but that's the world we live in !

I will bow to your knowledge on the Hitachi fleets, although I would just point out, although 106 has punctured the far south west a few times, it does seem to be on diagrams that take it back east at the end of the day (ie it doesn't end up at Laira or Long Rock on the WofE only stuff). 

[Afroal05]

4 minutes ago, 125_driver said:

I will bow to your knowledge on the Hitachi fleets, although I would just point out, although 106 has punctured the far south west a few times, it does seem to be on diagrams that take it back east at the end of the day (ie it doesn't end up at Laira or Long Rock on the WofE only stuff). 

 

I think it's a combination of coincidence and the diagrams. If we look at the LTP diagrams for (say) Wednesday of the week just gone:

12x 802/9 diagrams of which 5x started at locations outside of the WoE, of these only 2x ended up finishing the day in the WoE.

Thus there are then 7x starting in the WoE with only 2 leaving each day. You can imagine from this that cycling the units around can be a bit of a challenge.

Then you take into account which diagrams have Pullman services on them, one of these is a Laira - Laira diagram, one is a Laira - Bristol Parkway diagram (the other two WoE Pullmans are on 10 car diagrams). So that now leaves 5x usable diagrams in the WoE, but only 3x starting at Laira.

 

Then there's the small matter that (due to fleet availability) 9 cars are covering both 800 and 802 diagrams all over the shop. If we take a look back at what '106 has done the last week:

Fri 25/11: SGI-SGI (with 8hr layover at LNP) covering 800/9 diagram, North Cots to finish the day.

Sat 26/11: Unused at SGI (ASLEF Strike day)

Sun 27/11: Unused at SGI

Mon 28/11: SGI-MAL covering 800/9 diagram, Taunton, Bristol, several South Wales.

Tue 29/11: MAL-SGI covering 800/9 diagram, South Wales work with a Weston to finish.

Wed 30/11: SGI-SGI covering 800/9 diagram, Bristols.

Thu 01/12: SGI-SGI covering 800/9 diagram, Bristols.

Fri 2/12: SGI-LNP, swapped onto LNP early doors as 2x GUs were isolated and the diagram would have taken it to Penzance and back.

Sat 3/12: LNP-LNP a trip to Penzance and back! But then swapped back onto North Pole as 2x GUs are still isolated.

 

If we factor in 800/9 diagrams on a daily basis there are then potentially another 17 diagrams that '106 could cover!

So I suspect it's just coincidence that it hasn't been west in a while - although whilst it has 2x GUs isolated I don't think anyone will be sending it that way unless it's the last unit standing.

 

I know my answer is overkill but I hope it perhaps is an insightful view to others.

 

Al

 

[Siberian Snooper]

11 hours ago, Afroal05 said:

For those who haven't seen it, 802106's promotional wrap (taken the same day St. Simon posted it here, 19th Nov).

Vinyls applied to the first class driving vehicle, base colour is a dark blue. A nice vibrant splash of colour to see out and about.

 

An oddity about the vinyl appear to be that the last number (802106) appears to be in a different font and colour, like it was an afterthought! 

It'll be interesting to see the level of mess (if any) the vinyls leave behind when they are stripped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I saw it on an up train, crossing St Levan viaduct the other evening.

 

 

[Bucoops]

Maybe a last minute change to which set it was  going to be applied to - so they had to modify the number?

[4630]

On a dreich 3rd February 2023, FirstTransPennine Express Nova 1 set 802214 passing through Brighouse working 3Q97 from Doncaster IEP Depot to Manchester Victoria.

 

On this day, due to national strike action by members of the ASLEF union, there were no passenger services operated by TransPennine Express (or Northern) booked to run on either the Huddersfield or Calder Valley lines.  This working was run by the Rail Operations Group. 

 

 

 

 

 

[4630]

With their normal route through Huddersfield and the Standedge Tunnel closed between 11th March and 5th April 2023 due to Network Rail's major upgrade at Stalybridge, TransPennine Express has been running services via the Calder Valley.

 

Here are several photos taken on 4th April 2023 of various TPE 802/2s along the Calder Valley.

 

First of the class for TPE, 802201 approaching Brighouse heading east with 1P21, Liverpool Lime Street to Newcastle.

 

Second of the class for TPE 802202 heading west between Bradley Wood Junction and Brighouse with 9M11, Newcastle to Liverpool Lime Street.

 

And third of the class 802203 heading west between Brighouse and Greetland Junction with 1P20, Newcastle to Liverpool Lime Street.

 

Breaking the numerical run of units seen, 802209 heading east between Brighouse  and Bradley Wood Junction with 1P25, Liverpool Lime Street to Newcastle.

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by 4630

[4630]

Set to become more regular visitors along the line between York and Scarborough from the December 2023 timetable change apparently, TPE 802206 crossing Scarborough Bridge over the River Ouse on 13th September 2023 with 5Q80, Malton to Hull, routed via Castleford, Leeds, Gascoigne Wood Junction and Selby...

 

 

...and into platform 4 at York.

Edited September 15, 2023 by 4630

[The Stationmaster]

Interestinglt they, along with the also hard riding 345s, seem to have started knocking the GWML to pieces in the Thames Val;ey.  I haven't observed the Up Relief (although I've felt it) but the Down Relief and Up Main in particular are showing increasing amounts of sleeper 'pumping including some through fitting work.

 

While there are rolls of polythene by the lineside in various places they don't seem to line up with the worst spots.  And I'm not sure if NR's Per Way people don't understand what is happening or don't know how to cure it  or maybe aren't being allowed the necessary opportunities to cure it?  But they have clearly dug out and replaced the top ballast in a number of places and of course the 'pumping' is clearly redeveloping because they've done nothing to the sub-formation.  It's starting to look like a replay of the original cwr programme in the area when failure to tackle and blanket the sub-formation resulted in exactly the same thing occurring with the result that everything had to be done again.

 

Some of this new lot might be due to a failure to properly blanket under layout changes which came for electrification but most of it is on plain line and not over extended lengths  If the original pattern repeats the next stage of it isn't tackled is gong to lead to broken rails.  I was quite shocked to see just how bad it is in some places.