Class 800 - Updates

[black and decker boy]

On 17/07/2019 at 20:42, corneliuslundie said:

When the current franchise and non-franchise using the 800 series sets come  up for rebidding is any TOC going to want to take them on? There are enough other current disincentives to bidding for franchises without unsuitable stock. We have already seen one major player withdraw.

Jonathan

The IET train supply contracts with Agility trains are for 27.5 years so will be mandated on the ECML and GWML going forward. The deals were done by DfT not the TOC.

 

class 802s are different being ROSCO owned and TOC specified but should benefit from there being no realistic alternative. DfT can also write the ITT in such a way that they are kept on by default.

[APOLLO]

10 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

Personal preference indeed. I think it just sounds daft. Also, despite what Virgin/LNER marketing might say, East in Japanese is "Higashi"

 

Azuma is, I believe, an archaic name for Eastern Japan...

 

We will see if it catches on.

 

 

 

Azgotanchingbuma

 

Azerobuffetzuma

 

Azerobogflushinguma

 

Azumingbogiebanga

 

Adirtywindowzuma

 

Azin'twrongseatuma

 

I'm happy with our "old" Pendolino's - not perfect but seemingly better than these new fangled things, and the occasional Voyager is OK (just !!).

 

Brit15

 

 

[Ken.W]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Do HT, as part of First Group, still actually have to hire the things? Seems a bit rotten.

P

 

I would say so as the HSTs would have been leased to the franchise, GWR, rather than First Group, and Hull Trains as an Open Access Operator has to be a separate entity from any franchise.

The situation now's more straight forward though, as I believe the sets HT are leasing are actually ex-GWR sets that are off lease, so they'll be being leased from the appropriate ROSCO

[Ken.W]

2 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

The IET train supply contracts with Agility trains are for 27.5 years so will be mandated on the ECML and GWML going forward. The deals were done by DfT not the TOC.

 

class 802s are different being ROSCO owned and TOC specified but should benefit from there being no realistic alternative. DfT can also write the ITT in such a way that they are kept on by default.

 

I took it the quoted post read the other way around..

Who would want the franchises when they come with IET 800s?

 

Although on past track record, and with even more open access competition to come, who would want the EC franchise anyway?

Edited July 21, 2019 by Ken.W

[Mallard60022]

9 hours ago, Ken.W said:

 

I took it the quoted post read the other way around..

Who would want the franchises when they come with IET 800s?

 

Although on past track record, and with even more open access competition to come, who would want the EC franchise anyway?

Not even Stobard has sniffed at it AFAIK?

[Mark_A]

One and a half hours in a nine carriage IET yesterday.

 

While it ran to time, the smooth grey seat material needs to be retired asap - lots of really grubby seats on offer.

 

Now: the windows. Not many people have picked up yet that they're not dirty, there's something else going on: whatever it is that's coated them has chemically bonded with the surface - you can see this yourself next time you're within reach of one - try cleaning it with a damp tissue, you'll have no effect at all. It might be that chemically reactive particulate matter from the brakes has landed on the window surface and, given time, bonded with it. Hopefully removing it will involve nothing more than a serious polish, but it would be good if this were in hand because the windows' appearance really undermines the journey experience.

[Mark_A]

Another thought on the IEPs. It's surprising that in 1st class, on the 'Single seat side' airline seats are the choice rather than bays of two.  Apart from the disadvantage of the aircraft-cabin-like appearance it lends to the whole carriage, if someone needs to work and not share their screen, airline layout offers a lot less privacy.

[Zomboid]

1 hour ago, Mark_A said:

if someone needs to work and not share their screen, airline layout offers a lot less privacy

How does that work? I can't see how it makes any difference at all myself.

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Mark_A said:

Another thought on the IEPs. It's surprising that in 1st class, on the 'Single seat side' airline seats are the choice rather than bays of two.  Apart from the disadvantage of the aircraft-cabin-like appearance it lends to the whole carriage, if someone needs to work and not share their screen, airline layout offers a lot less privacy.

I've used this seating and it is quite private so I'm not quite sure what you mean.

P

[Mallard60022]

LNER have been posting about 91108's last day in service today. Before anyone tells me to get back on topic then this comes from the advertising by LNER of their Azuma services, so maybe back slowly away and hope I do not strike; a duck can be quite violent in this heat.

 

Regards privacy, if you want to see what the person in front of you, in the non 4 facing a table seats, is up to then you can look at the reflection in the overhead luggage rack glass/Perspex.

People are starting to moan about the blinds during this very sunny and warm weather on the ECML. Source, LNER's FB page.

Not sure if the GW sets will get the same comments as the weather is always dull down there isn't it! 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Mark_A]

3 hours ago, Zomboid said:

How does that work? I can't see how it makes any difference at all myself.

With airline, you have your back to the person in the seat behind and do not have sight of them. With a 'Bay of two' layout, you and the person behind have backs to each other -  and the person in the seat across the table may have a view of anyone behind you. Though, certainly, single airline seats offer greater privacy than bays of two.

 

Mark

[Oldddudders]

Am I interested in the bloke-across-the-aisle's monthly sales figures, report to the Board or assessment of next years budget requirement? Er, no. First class passengers are generally achievers, or wealthy, or both. Having done numerous HST trips in first class - I make no secret here of my entitlement as a retired railwayman - I cannot ever recall seeing anyone ogling another's laptop. The nearest was on a Eurostar from Paris, where two airhead girls had some ghastly fashion video upon which they were commenting loudly. As it was in my field of view I was not impressed - but was also not making notes to steal their catwalk secrets!

[Ian Hargrave]

Sometimes eavesdropping,however unintentional,is literally forced upon one.Latest experience on an LNWR (1st.Class ) service between MK and Euston was of a young female......and very sharp......barrister,being briefed via iPhone and laptop by the solicitor on an awkward ( or so it seemed ) matrimonial/ custody case. I was entertained and immensely impressed.Well.....what else do you do on the WCML other than trainspotting passing Willesden Yard ?

[Siberian Snooper]

I think laptops and tablets are more of a problem in cattle class,  where the users don't use earpieces etc. and the volume is such that you can hear the damned thing,  certainly no bother from those using them for work or similar.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, Mark_A said:

Another thought on the IEPs. It's surprising that in 1st class, on the 'Single seat side' airline seats are the choice rather than bays of two.  Apart from the disadvantage of the aircraft-cabin-like appearance it lends to the whole carriage, if someone needs to work and not share their screen, airline layout offers a lot less privacy.

'bus (aka 'airline') style layout allows more seats - simples.  and there were plenty of people working with laptops etc in them yesterday on both trains I travelled.

 

Now the absolutely incredible. utterly amazing, news.  ever single IET I saw or travelled  on (two) yesterday was the right way round, even in the several 2x5 sets I saw.  it could of course be that the wrong 'uns had been hidden because somebody had got wind of the fact that some critical observers would be about.  And there was even a 5 car in the reversing siding at Bedwyn yesterday afternoon so that working is obviously now happening.  Equally slightly surprising was that both the West of England trains I travelled on were formed with 802 sets!

 

Noise from underneath seemed to be very definitely bogie related and occurred at particular spots mainly on the Up journey from Exeter to Reading, engine noise wasn't really perceptible even when sitting virtually on top of the thing.  Seat cushion padding seemed to vary a bit - no problem on the Down journey but difficult to get comfy coming back the other way.  The Up train was 20 late off Exeter (r/a a very poorly 15X delaying it in Cornwall) and 15 late into Reading leaving me 2 minutes to make my supposedly 17 minute connection, fortunately the connecting train was 3 late so all was well in the end.

 

The impact of IET on business could however be seen on the Down train (the Newquay) as no surfboarders were aboard - the boards are banned so the traffic is lost and apparently Flybe have picked it up instead - clever marketing decision there (not) although at least the loading delay at Reading didn't happen so some clouds have silver linings.  No crisps available in the afternoon from the trolley - but to be honest that was nothing after Wetherspoons had been unable to offer either eggs or fish to those of our group who wanted dishes containing such things and when somebody decided to order the black pudding extra to make up for a lack of egg with his All day Brunch he was told they didn't have any of that either.   Seems that GWR isn't the only concern suffering minor catering hang-ups.

 

Overall - not as nice as an HST with the earlier style of seats (I don't like the high back HST seats) but actually not too bad although the late runner coming up didn't make up as much time as an HST would have.

[Mallard60022]

31 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

'bus (aka 'airline') style layout allows more seats - simples.  and there were plenty of people working with laptops etc in them yesterday on both trains I travelled.

 

Now the absolutely incredible. utterly amazing, news.  ever single IET I saw or travelled  on (two) yesterday was the right way round, even in the several 2x5 sets I saw.  it could of course be that the wrong 'uns had been hidden because somebody had got wind of the fact that some critical observers would be about.  And there was even a 5 car in the reversing siding at Bedwyn yesterday afternoon so that working is obviously now happening.  Equally slightly surprising was that both the West of England trains I travelled on were formed with 802 sets!

 

Noise from underneath seemed to be very definitely bogie related and occurred at particular spots mainly on the Up journey from Exeter to Reading, engine noise wasn't really perceptible even when sitting virtually on top of the thing.  Seat cushion padding seemed to vary a bit - no problem on the Down journey but difficult to get comfy coming back the other way.  The Up train was 20 late off Exeter (r/a a very poorly 15X delaying it in Cornwall) and 15 late into Reading leaving me 2 minutes to make my supposedly 17 minute connection, fortunately the connecting train was 3 late so all was well in the end.

 

The impact of IET on business could however be seen on the Down train (the Newquay) as no surfboarders were aboard - the boards are banned so the traffic is lost and apparently Flybe have picked it up instead - clever marketing decision there (not) although at least the loading delay at Reading didn't happen so some clouds have silver linings.  No crisps available in the afternoon from the trolley - but to be honest that was nothing after Wetherspoons had been unable to offer either eggs or fish to those of our group who wanted dishes containing such things and when somebody decided to order the black pudding extra to make up for a lack of egg with his All day Brunch he was told they didn't have any of that either.   Seems that GWR isn't the only concern suffering minor catering hang-ups.

 

Overall - not as nice as an HST with the earlier style of seats (I don't like the high back HST seats) but actually not too bad although the late runner coming up didn't make up as much time as an HST would have.

Bit of difference Mike. Witherspoons is absolute shite and GWR is OK.

Nuff said.

Ar$£

[Reorte]

16 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I think laptops and tablets are more of a problem in cattle class,  where the users don't use earpieces etc. and the volume is such that you can hear the damned thing,  certainly no bother from those using them for work or similar.

 

I can't use a laptop on an airline seat in standard (don't know about first, not tried it, and I've only tried it in standard on Voyagers and Pendolinos). There simply isn't enough room, the angle I have to look down at the screen makes it impossible to see. I've never been in an airline seat that I've not found uncomfortably cramped.

[Mallard60022]

41 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I can't use a laptop on an airline seat in standard (don't know about first, not tried it, and I've only tried it in standard on Voyagers and Pendolinos). There simply isn't enough room, the angle I have to look down at the screen makes it impossible to see. I've never been in an airline seat that I've not found uncomfortably cramped.

I think there is a gizmo you can get to lift your LT to a better height.

P

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

Overall - not as nice as an HST with the earlier style of seats (I don't like the high back HST seats) but actually not too bad although the late runner coming up didn't make up as much time as an HST would have.

Are you getting shorty HSTs Mike? If so then they are like shi# off a shovel and they have comfy seats and it doesn't really matter if they are the wrong way around blah, blah and if you sit in the end coach you get the lovely noise.

P

[Ken.W]

The other thing with them having so many 'airline' seats is that you lose the extra luggage space between the seat backs

[Reorte]

57 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I think there is a gizmo you can get to lift your LT to a better height.

 

I'll have to make sure I never get one then. I'd rather watch the world go by, and it would probably do most of the people working on their laptops on the train some good if they stopped working and watched the world go by too.

 

edit to add: when I tried it was at night and I was going to watch a DVD. Just read a book instead.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Reorte

[talisman56]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Are you getting shorty HSTs Mike? If so then they are like shi# off a shovel and they have comfy seats and it doesn't really matter if they are the wrong way around blah, blah and if you sit in the end coach you get the lovely noise.

P

 

My main issue with 'shorty' HSTs is that the station dwell time is apparently longer than the 166s that they replaced, at least on my service of choice ex-Yatton, the 08.54 (dest. Cardiff). It is invariably at least 2 down by the time it gets to Yatton and on occasion has dropped more by the time it gets to BTM, making the recommended connection time very dodgy, especially if one has to fight through the throngs and get from plat 5 to 13 or 15 to get the Paddington service. With a dodgy hip I sometimes can't walk that fast and need that 10 minutes, at least...

[Mallard60022]

4 minutes ago, talisman56 said:

 

My main issue with 'shorty' HSTs is that the station dwell time is apparently longer than the 166s that they replaced, at least on my service of choice ex-Yatton, the 08.54 (dest. Cardiff). It is invariably at least 2 down by the time it gets to Yatton and on occasion has dropped more by the time it gets to BTM, making the recommended connection time very dodgy, especially if one has to fight through the throngs and get from plat 5 to 13 or 15 to get the Paddington service. With a dodgy hip I sometimes can't walk that fast and need that 10 minutes, at least...

Is that the 'doors issue'? Small stations, no staff, doors left open and Train Manager has to do the closing?

If not then I am surprised. 

Sympathise with the hip hop situation too as I often can hardly walk after sitting for some time and then steps or stairs are a bu##er too.

Phil

 

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Mallard60022

[talisman56]

4 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Is that the 'doors issue'? Small stations, no staff, doors left open and Train Manager has to do the closing?

If not then I am surprised.

P

 

 

It may well be - all the ones I've taken still have conventional 'slam' doors (and some of them have been a remarkable mixture of stock, including one with a Buffet First), but the main issue that everyone has to queue up in the aisle and go out the doors one-by-one, instead of gathering by the double doors of a 'Turbo' and going out en masse.

Edited July 23, 2019 by talisman56

[Mallard60022]

3 minutes ago, talisman56 said:

 

It may well be - all the ones I've taken still have conventional 'slam' doors (and some of them have been a remarkable mixture of stock, including one with a Buffet First), but the main issue that everyone has to queue up in the aisle and go out the doors one-by-one, instead of gathering by the double doors of a 'Turbo' and going out en masse.

Ah yes of course and then there are the people that stand waiting for the door to open!!!!!! Unless they are a regular on the sets of course! We had a set a few weeks back on a Hull Trains Replacement for a dead 180, that had a green livery Buffet something, in the blue livery FGW set. Jolly looking train!

P