Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[John Besley]

Interesting views of the room puts it into perspective, is there a track plan- or a planed plan...

[5BarVT]

It’s a hard life: accused of being a civil engineer and (earlier) a signal engineer when all you want to be is a grease monkey!

Just think of yourself as a Railway Engineer.

Paul.

[5BarVT]

On 21/11/2021 at 06:20, St Enodoc said:

One of those was to update the draft layout plan with the revised Pentowan layout that I've been working on. I've squeezed in 10 carriage sidings, which will give me space to stable at least 50 carriages. I say "at least" because I was very conservative in my calculations, leaving plenty of room (I think) to the fouling points and using a value of 280mm per coach, even though I know that only a few will be 70 footers. I also left a full 100mm between the ends of the sidings and the baseboard edge, although the final value could be about half that. Of course, I rounded the number of carriages down in each case too. I'm now confident that I can proceed with the plan as drafted, although there might be some minor changes when I set it all out at full size and do a dry run with the actual carriage sets.

 

Here it is, with the three passenger platforms at the top, then the loop on platform 1 (I've reversed the numbering from the real Newquay, to maintain my convention of numbering all tracks from the rear to the front as the operators see them) and the 10 sidings below them. It will be a while until all this gets built, although the L-girders could go up sooner rather than later.

This do?

Paul.

 

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, John Besley said:

Interesting views of the room puts it into perspective, is there a track plan- or a planed plan...

 

28 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

This do?

Paul.

 

Thanks Paul for stepping in while I was having my dinner!

 

John, Paul has posted the latest version of the draft plan. Everything is built and operational except for the terminus, Pentowan, which is what the new baseboard frames are for.

 

To give the plan some context, here is the block plan and the map of the "real" Mid-Cornwall.

 

 

Hope that helps.

[St Enodoc]

39 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

It’s a hard life: accused of being a civil engineer and (earlier) a signal engineer when all you want to be is a grease monkey!

Just think of yourself as a Railway Engineer.

Paul.

Paul, that's exactly how I describe myself. Here in Australia, there is a single Institution of Engineers Australia, which covers all disciplines. It also covers different fields of practice through its Technical Societies, such as the Railway Technical Society of Australasia, which covers New Zealand too.

[Chamby]

10 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

 

Thanks Paul for stepping in while I was having my dinner!

 

John, Paul has posted the latest version of the draft plan. Everything is built and operational except for the terminus, Pentowan, which is what the new baseboard frames are for.

 

To give the plan some context, here is the block plan and the map of the "real" Mid-Cornwall.

 

 

Hope that helps.

 

I had always assumed from your track layout that StEnodoc is based on Bugle, your Porthmellyn Road represents Par, and Wheal Veronica is Carbis Wharf...  so your model was based on the ‘other’ line to Newquay.

 

I am also intrigued that Tregissey (Pentewan) has been highlighted on your map.  Are you going to add this branch to your layout?  The small and picturesque harbour at Pentewan has terrific modelling potential...

[St Enodoc]

17 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

I had always assumed from your track layout that StEnodoc is based on Bugle, your Porthmellyn Road represents Par, and Wheal Veronica is Carbis Wharf...  so your model was based on the ‘other’ line to Newquay.

 

I am also intrigued that Tregissey (Pentewan) has been highlighted on your map.  Are you going to add this branch to your layout?  The small and picturesque harbour at Pentewan has terrific modelling potential...

That's exactly right, Phil. All the locations on the layout are "based on" or "inspired by" the real places you mention but none is a direct replica, for various reasons including space of course. The main reason for moving Porthmellyn Road further west was to avoid having to represent the yards and engine shed at St Blazey.

 

The Tregissey branch is off-stage and is the destination for the long china-clay train and the railbus. I'd like to have modelled it but just couldn't find a way to fit it in. I do have a Dutch coaster kit on standby though, in case I build a small additional layout one day.

 

Operationally, the layout follows a sequence derived from the actual summer Friday and Saturday workings in the 1950s.

 

There's more on the back story starting on page 2:

 

 

[Stubby47]

Just writing our Xmas cards, and most of them have snow scenes. 

 

A random question occurred to me - do Australian Xmas cards have beach scenes on ?

[ianathompson]

On 24/11/2022 at 22:36, St Enodoc said:

Here's one of the two lamp-fitted buffer stops for Porthmellyn Road.

 

 

 

Referring back a page or so, just an interested query/observation.

 

The beam on the buffer stop appears to be whitemetal so does this transmit electricity across both rails?

I note, from the installation photos, that the bufferstop is electrically separated from the siding so there should not be any shorts in theory.

However, if you park a wagon with its wheels exactly on the rail joint it seems likely that a short will occur, providing the points are set into the siding.

 

I only raise this point because I sometimes have this problem on my own layout (the AFK).

There are not too many buffer stops on the main station's design but many of the sidings are split into different electrical circuits.

This was unavoidable due to the baseboard configuration.

 

I often have the problem that a correctly functioning station suddenly "locks up" with a mystery short.

This occurs where the adjacent baseboard has a circuit switched by a point crossing set against the siding concernecd.

Experience has taught me to shove the wagons alongside the goods shed forward or backwards slightly and I am "live" again.

 

I just wondered whether a similar phenomenon might happen in your sidings.

 

Ian T

 

 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

Just writing our Xmas cards, and most of them have snow scenes. 

 

A random question occurred to me - do Australian Xmas cards have beach scenes on ?

Some do but usually those to be sent "across the miles".

[St Enodoc]

22 minutes ago, ianathompson said:

 

Referring back a page or so, just an interested query/observation.

 

The beam on the buffer stop appears to be whitemetal so does this transmit electricity across both rails?

I note, from the installation photos, that the bufferstop is electrically separated from the siding so there should not be any shorts in theory.

However, if you park a wagon with its wheels exactly on the rail joint it seems likely that a short will occur, providing the points are set into the siding.

 

I only raise this point because I sometimes have this problem on my own layout (the AFK).

There are not too many buffer stops on the main station's design but many of the sidings are split into different electrical circuits.

This was unavoidable due to the baseboard configuration.

 

I often have the problem that a correctly functioning station suddenly "locks up" with a mystery short.

This occurs where the adjacent baseboard has a circuit switched by a point crossing set against the siding concernecd.

Experience has taught me to shove the wagons alongside the goods shed forward or backwards slightly and I am "live" again.

 

I just wondered whether a similar phenomenon might happen in your sidings.

 

Ian T

 

 

In theory you are right, Ian, but the chance of that happening is small, I think, further mitigated by the brown paint layer on the whitemetal.  I'll take the chance!

[ianathompson]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

In theory you are right, Ian, but the chance of that happening is small, I think, further mitigated by the brown paint layer on the whitemetal.  I'll take the chance!

 

Would that I had recourse to that solution!

 

Ian T

[St Enodoc]

I finished off a good weekend's work at Pentowan today, coincidentally at exactly the same time that the rather one-sided Adelaide Test ended after less than one session on the fourth day.

 

First, I placed three full sheets of 9mm ply on the frames, without joists, to start marking out. These will be trimmed back once I know the final width of Pentowan, which won't be for a while yet.

 

The next job was to mark out the track for the approach and throat, leading into the longest carriage siding (CS 1). CS 1 is at a slight angle to the baseboard edge, being 50mm from the edge at the stop block end and 100mm at the double slip, which is the key location at the station.

 

After a fair bit of trial and error, not helped by the height difference between the track at Treloggan Junction and the temporary baseboard tops, plus the need to bridge the gap with an offcut of ply, I managed to get the 30" radius curve from Treloggan Junction, the 48" radius curve along the outside of the throat and the straight length of CS 1 to blend without any nasty doglegs, so I laid the four curved points, the double slip and the next point round the curve in place to make sure there was enough room for them all.

 

There was, so I moved to the other end of the boards to set out the two options for the carriage sidings - 10 roads at 50mm track centres or 9 roads at alternating 60/50mm centres (there's actually a third option, 9 roads at alternating 50/60mm track centres, which I'll add next time). I've left 100mm at the end of each siding for the moment, to allow for the stop blocks themselves and some wriggle room in case I can get an extra coach in if I extend a siding by a few mm.

 

I'll leave all this to mature before cutting any wood, in case anything wrong jumps out at me or I think of a different way to do things.

Edited December 11, 2022 by St Enodoc

[St Enodoc]

Wishlist poll submitted.

I've gone for the old favourites (2021 pannier, Insixfish, various coaches) as always. Perhaps one day...

[Michael Edge]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:20, St Enodoc said:

In theory you are right, Ian, but the chance of that happening is small, I think, further mitigated by the brown paint layer on the whitemetal.  I'll take the chance!

If it can happen it will happen......

Wentworth Junction and Herculaneum have occasional shorts caused by wagon wheels in gaps.

[St Enodoc]

9 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

If it can happen it will happen......

Wentworth Junction and Herculaneum have occasional shorts caused by wagon wheels in gaps.

Thanks Mike. I'll triple check...

[5BarVT]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:20, St Enodoc said:

In theory you are right, Ian, but the chance of that happening is small, I think, further mitigated by the brown paint layer on the whitemetal.  I'll take the chance!

 

44 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

If it can happen it will happen......

Wentworth Junction and Herculaneum have occasional shorts caused by wagon wheels in gaps.

To which a suitable solution is a double block joint - a second gap in one rail close enough to keep engines on the blocks live while still being supported.

Not original thinking, it’s just how we S&T types keep nasty big traction Amps away from our sensitive small amps when a train passes over the insulated joints.

Paul.

[ianathompson]

10 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

To which a suitable solution is a double block joint - a second gap in one rail close enough to keep engines on the blocks live while still being supported.

Not original thinking, it’s just how we S&T types keep nasty big traction Amps away from our sensitive small amps when a train passes over the insulated joints.

Paul.

 

Having dealt with various S&T members, well one in particular, during my working days....!

 

Ian T

Edited December 12, 2022 by ianathompson
typo

[St Enodoc]

13 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

 

To which a suitable solution is a double block joint - a second gap in one rail close enough to keep engines on the blocks live while still being supported.

Not original thinking, it’s just how we S&T types keep nasty big traction Amps away from our sensitive small amps when a train passes over the insulated joints.

Paul.

Funnily enough, that's exactly what cam into my head at about 0400 this morning!

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Funnily enough, that's exactly what cam into my head at about 0400 this morning!

Rather than an extra gap, offsetting the two gaps would work, wouldn't it?

[Stubby47]

18 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Rather than an extra gap, offsetting the two gaps would work, wouldn't it?

 

Yes, I can't see why not.  The only chance of a short is if both wheels bridge the gaps between their live rail and the stop-block rails.  Off setting the gaps, even by only a few mm, should prevent this.

 

[5BarVT]

Or cutting vertically through the buffer beam and glueing together with araldite.  I suspect you don’t want to go there!

Paul.

[Stubby47]

33 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Or cutting vertically through the buffer beam and glueing together with araldite.  I suspect you don’t want to go there!

Paul.

 

The other option is to glue the buffer beam on with enough glue to provide an electrical insulation from the rail supports, but this is perhaps a tad more difficult in practice. Would also need to be done with the stay, too.

 

PECO SL-340 anyone ?

[figworthy]

On 10/12/2022 at 11:55, ianathompson said:

 

Referring back a page or so, just an interested query/observation.

 

The beam on the buffer stop appears to be whitemetal so does this transmit electricity across both rails?

I note, from the installation photos, that the bufferstop is electrically separated from the siding so there should not be any shorts in theory.

 

 

When I built some LMS whitemetal buffers, I superglued the cross beam on, but placed a couple of layers of tissue paper between the upright and the beam.  Once it was dry, I tested it with a multimeter, and the paper/glue construction had worked as an insulator.

 

Adrian

[Chamby]

I have used LMS buffers, and simply cut the moulded white metal rails as short as possible... so the break becomes close enough to the buffers that wheels don’t reach the joint.  

 

Using C&L insulated rail joiners between the running rails and buffer stop ensures that the bufferstop itself doesn’t cause a short: the joiners are themselves very discreet.