Kirkby Luneside

[Physicsman]

With The Mill, we wanted it tall(ish) as both of us prefer the perspective of looking across rather than down upon at exhibitions. Also, the main building (the focal point of the layout) is far more imposing if you are looking across at it rather than down. I imagine there will be some gripes about the height from wheelchair users and it is a shame but for the majority, I think this height will work. I can't see kids being interested in the layout at all because it will be tiny locos shuffling 2 or 3 wagons around, maximum.

 

I guess for a home layout like KL, then it depends on the practicality of access and what perspective you prefer to view from. With KL1, I found myself crouching down a lot to get more of a trackside / slightly raised view and I guess our esteemed host feels likewise.

 

"Esteemed host", eh? My, I have come up in the world - but not in height!

 

KL was a little bit low from a viewpoint perspective. I prefer the warehouse rather than the helicopter view and if I want the former I can just stand on a box!

 

Of course, the higher the boards the less reach you have. KL2 has corner and well access, so nothing would be more than around 2' away (or so). Duck under, under-board working and STORAGE of the crap that'll stay in the bunker are all factors that will undoubtedly raise the board height.

 

Then there's the fact that BOARD height and L-GIRDER height are very definitely different, since the depth of the girder (5") for me and joist/riser height (about 8 - 12") also needs to be factored in.

 

I'm around 3 months away from having to actually DO anything about this, but it's been on my mind for a long time.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

I agree 100% with "Ardmore" on Baseboard height. Mine are 1200mm as well

 

The wrong side of the Pennines. Surely he means the South side and is not anti to either of the Rose Counties. 

 

Regards,Derek.

 

As a Lancastrian living to the east of the Pennines, and bearing in mind my love of the Lake District Fells, I'd better not comment where my loyalties lie!

 

Then again, the glorious north of England. I'd want to live nowhere else!

 

Jeff

[Donington Road]

"Esteemed host", eh? My, I have come up in the world - but not in height!

 

KL was a little bit low from a viewpoint perspective. I prefer the warehouse rather than the helicopter view and if I want the former I can just stand on a box!

 

Of course, the higher the boards the less reach you have. KL2 has corner and well access, so nothing would be more than around 2' away (or so). Duck under, under-board working and STORAGE of the crap that'll stay in the bunker are all factors that will undoubtedly raise the board height.

 

Then there's the fact that BOARD height and L-GIRDER height are very definitely different, since the depth of the girder (5") for me and joist/riser height (about 8 - 12") also needs to be factored in.

 

I'm around 3 months away from having to actually DO anything about this, but it's been on my mind for a long time.

 

Jeff

 

I think your ulterior motive is to build high so you have the excuse to use even more wood to build up a floor

[Physicsman]

I think your ulterior motive is to build high so you have the excuse to use even more wood to build up a floor

 

You've sussed me out, Mick. A few people have suggested insulating the floor over the last 2 years. When Mike mentioned it the other day I must have been dreaming of more woodwork - and jumped at the idea. Wood and first of the next batch of insulation ordered btw - it'll be here tomorrow. Yippee!!

 

As for the operating well platform. Take that as a given. When you're my height you need all the help you can get.

 

Now where did I put those cowboy boots?

 

Jeff

[Ardmore]

 

Btw, re. the comment under your avatar. What do you regard as the "wrong" side of the Pennines?   

 

Jeff

 

I live near Atlanta, Georgia so my location is a rare chance (at least on this side of the Atlantic) to be ironic. For instance, a former colleague was showing a group of senior officials from Washington DC, round a new government building. "How many people work here?" asked one of the officials. "Oh, about half of them" he replied. Now if that had been in the UK, everyone would have laughed and moved on. Over here, there was a stunned silence, followed later by a formal warning from top management never to do anything like that again.

 

The Settle and Carlisle line has long been one of my favorites. Back in 1961 my parents considered renovating a cottage that overlooked the line at Helwith Bridge. However, they decided it would be boring to keep going back to the same place! Tragic or what? (At least I did get to 'cop' 60082 Neil Gow heading north on the Thames-Clyde Express.)

 

BTW I'm from Leeds.

 

David 

[Physicsman]

Yes, David, you are VERY much on one side of the Pennines.... coming from Leeds you may judge it to be the wrong side!

 

I assume you're modelling in H0, and probably not the S&C?

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

I didn't want to get into a detailed discussion of baseboard height at this stage as it'll be late spring before the L-girders start to be constructed (ha, ha - at this rate it'll be early April!!)

 

However, the diagram shows my outline thoughts. It's drawn for the main scenic section, including the station and yard areas.

 

Here, we have the track/road-bed at around 140cm above floor level. The road bed is sat on top of a 9" riser, which is attached to joists sitting on a 5" deep L-girder. The clear area under the girder comes to around a metre, which is a good 25cm more than with the subframe on KL.

 

For viewing, the operating well contains a raised area/wooden box(!!) of depth 20-30cm (to be decided), giving a working height for the track of 110 - 120cm.

 

 

The fiddle yard, being an entirely flat area, would have the road-bed sat directly onto L-girder joists (ie. no risers), so there would be ~ 120cm between the bottom of the L-girders and the floor (no box to stand on).

 

These are just ideas at the moment - though not far off what will be built.

 

Jeff

Edited February 17, 2015 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

By the way, I know I've mixed mm, cm, metres and inches into the previous post.

 

It's a test to see if I can confuse the hell out of you!       

 

Jeff

[Andrew P]

Hi Jeff, WITHOUT ticking any boxes in the posts above, I have to say your layouts height would be better a little higher than KL 1

 

Please do calculation in ENGLISH not EU for little me please.

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff, WITHOUT ticking any boxes in the posts above, I have to say your layouts height would be better a little higher than KL 1

 

Please do calculation in ENGLISH not EU for little me please.

 

Yes, Andy, you're quite right. The board height, and the duck under, are around a foot higher. However, once you've ducked under, standing on the board the layout won't seem excessively high.

 

Anyway, as "requested", here's the diagram for you - in ENGLISH!

 

 

Jeff

Edited February 17, 2015 by Physicsman

[unravelled]

Good job these are preliminary ideas, I think you are suggesting main line at 140cm and fiddle yard at 120. Unless you are using mixed datums as well as mixed units. Or is the floor thickness the missing 20cm?

 

hth

 

Dave

[emt_911]

Yes, Andy, you're quite right. The board height, and the duck under, are around a foot higher. However, once you've ducked under, standing on the board the layout won't seem excessively high.

 

Anyway, as "requested", here's the diagram for you - in ENGLISH!

 

Baseboard heights for Andy.jpg

 

Jeff

Thanks. That makes a lot more sense

[Physicsman]

Good job these are preliminary ideas, I think you are suggesting main line at 140cm and fiddle yard at 120. Unless you are using mixed datums as well as mixed units. Or is the floor thickness the missing 20cm?

 

hth

 

Dave

 

Thanks Dave. The error is because I didn't state clearly what was 120cm....

 

The 120cm refers to the distance between the bottom of the L-girders under the fiddle yard and the floor. The rail level is, of course, the same as that in the scenic area, but lacking the need for risers, the girders are a bit higher up, creating more space underneath.

 

i'll modify my wording in the diagram and draw a plan to show the general idea.

 

Jeff

[Ardmore]

Yes, David, you are VERY much on one side of the Pennines.... coming from Leeds you may judge it to be the wrong side!

 

I assume you're modelling in H0, and probably not the S&C?

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,

 

I'm trying to recreate a small slice of the (G) Western Region in South Devon in OO gauge (see Teignbridge in layout topics)! That has a lot to do with working in Bristol for 26 years before moving to the States.

 

David

[Physicsman]

Ok, I'll put this diagram up. If it's clear, great. If not, I'll come back to it in a couple of months as things get built.

 

Basically, L-girders are built at different levels for different areas of the layout: here - the large station area / viaduct area / fiddle yard.

 

I will be happy to discuss this later, but it's not relevant to where the project currently is, so please excuse me if I leave it at this FOR NOW.

 

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff,

 

I'm trying to recreate a small slice of the (G) Western Region in South Devon in OO gauge (see Teignbridge in layout topics)! That has a lot to do with working in Bristol for 26 years before moving to the States.

 

David

 

Always good to see UK "escapees" modelling 00 in the "colonies"!!

 

I'll have a look at Teignbridge.

 

Cheers, 

 

Jeff

[Donington Road]

Good job these are preliminary ideas, I think you are suggesting main line at 140cm and fiddle yard at 120. Unless you are using mixed datums as well as mixed units. Or is the floor thickness the missing 20cm?

 

hth

 

Dave

 

With a log-in name like that Dave I can see you are going to be very useful around here deciphering Jeff's thoughts and ideas for us all :jester:

[Physicsman]

With a log-in name like that Dave I can see you are going to be very useful around here deciphering Jeff's thoughts and ideas for us all :jester:

 

Mick, Dave is very knowledgeable, too. If you go to the Index to KL (on page 1 of the thread) you'll find references to some of his wonderful S&C photos, taken in the 1960s.

 

See KL page 126, for example.

 

Jeff

[Donington Road]

Mick, Dave is very knowledgeable, too. If you go to the Index to KL (on page 1 of the thread) you'll find references to some of his wonderful S&C photos, taken in the 1960s.

 

See KL page 126, for example.

 

Jeff

 

He certainly is.

Thanks for jogging my memory with the photos on KL, that was a long time ago.  I have trouble remembering what happened ten minutes ago

[Jock67B]

Morning Jeff,

Metrication (surprised that was not cancelled by the profanity police!) occurred half way through my degree course in Thermo and Mech Eng with the result that I now check measurements using both disciplines!

Looks like a good preliminary plan, and it would be easy to adjust up or down once you start to test run trains if you allow extra timber on the top of the legs and trim back if necessary?

Keep up this work rate and you could be on the baseboards sooner than you think!

Kind regards,

Jock.

[Physicsman]

I had my latest materials delivery at lunchtime and I've been in the bunker putting together the first couple of frames for the floor. It'll need 8 of these to cover the concrete.

 

Just having a coffee break and then I'm going to start filling the frames with 75mm insulation board.

 

The two frames are screwed together and into the wall, but NOT into the floor as that would run the risk of puncturing the DPC under the concrete. The wood structure is already robust enough (ha, ha I hear certain people scream!!) that it "aint goin' anywhere".

 

Some pics:

 

 

 

 

Jeff

[mark axlecounter]

Hi Jeff hope all is well. The bunker is comming along at a fast rate lol.

next there will be trains running

Keep up the good work.

 

Mark (grabbing a rest day again)

[Andrew P]

Hi Jeff SORRY for hitting the LIKE button, I know how much you hate them.

 

That flooring frame looks the dogs mate, Just a bit worried about the amount of weight your putting on the North of England, I think the South may be lifted out of the Solent at your rate. hahahaha

[robmcg]

Lovely work Jeff.  Believe it or not I have built a few things myself with similar materials and methods, and know the satisfaction of strong wooden construction, as in large work-benches and tables, and your framing looks great.   I used to know about such as hidden half-mitre dovetail joints but have forgotten it now.

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

[Physicsman]

Lovely work Jeff.  Believe it or not I have built a few things myself with similar materials and methods, and know the satisfaction of strong wooden construction, as in large work-benches and tables, and your framing looks great.   I used to know about such as hidden half-mitre dovetail joints but have forgotten it now.

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

 

Evening Rob.

 

The subframe for KL was a concoction involving multiple half-lap joints and I enjoyed making it. I have to admit that the floor frames - since they are going to be buried and I need a lot of them - only involve the "skill" of careful measurement and fitting together with screws to be square. I am pleased with the result.

 

I've since filled them with insulation. For a change I used a sharp knife to cut the foam, instead of my usual saw, and it was much faster and cleaner.

 

Jeff