Kirkby Luneside

[tender]

Hi Ray

 

That was what we all used until this stuff called 'scant' arrived which seems to have taken its place for stud work.

 

That's a new one on me Mike, maybe it was longer ago than I thought.

With that in mind i went to the builders merchant the other day and asked for a yard of aggregate to extend the concrete base for the new shed, the guy looked at me as if I came from Mars. Apparently I should have asked for a 'Big Bag'.

Ray.

[Donington Road]

That's a new one on me Mike, maybe it was longer ago than I thought.

With that in mind i went to the builders merchant the other day and asked for a yard of aggregate to extend the concrete base for the new shed, the guy looked at me as if I came from Mars. Apparently I should have asked for a 'Big Bag'.

Ray.

 

He'd probably been trained at Tesco's

[Ray H]

He'd probably been trained at Tesco's

In this PC world should we not add that "Other supermarkets are available"?

[Physicsman]

Hi Ray

 

That was what we all used until this stuff called 'scant' arrived which seems to have taken its place for stud work.

 

Jeff,

 

I always leave a void between insulation and floorboards eg: if using 4x2 fit 75mm Kingspan this gives you 15mm airflow space.

 

I'm glad you said that. My provisional order list for next week is for 30 4 x 2 joists and 75mm board as infill. Glad we're on the same wavelength.

 

I'm going to use 12mm ply as the base flooring as I prefer it to chipboard.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Plenty of common-sense "old world" attitudes from you guys on here.

 

I'm a scientist, but I must admit that at times the "logic" that is prevalent in all aspects of society amazes me. Metric wood sizes and aggregate masses ("weights") being just two.

 

Having said that, Ray, I wonder what response you'd have got if you'd gone to the merchants and asked for a 9810 Newton bag of aggregate?!! Hence the more encompassing and "technically correct" term of Big Bag!!

 

Jeff

[Clive Mortimore]

To some of us mere mortals a BIG BAG sounds about the right amount.

[peach james]

well, do you mean a ton, or a Cu M?  because I work in both...and a Cu M is rarely a Tonne, even when we think it should be, because salt water isn't 1.0, but is variable and more like 1.02 or a bit more...and fuel is .85, unless it is .83 or .82   (but both convert to bbls easy enough). (and a Cu M is 226 & a little bit  _real_ gal)  And if you are ordering aggregate, here it would come by the yard, normally.  (1 cubic yard, or 27 cubic feet, or some amount that may or may not actually equal that, unless it is ready mix cement, in which case it _will_ be a yard you get when you pay for it).

 

2x4's aren't 2x4 here, they are 1 5/8x 3 1/2, not metric yet.  Again, you always have to measure it to be sure what exactly you are getting.  We use a lot of rough cut 4x4 at work, and that can vary from 4 1/2" square, to 4x4 1/2, to 3 7/8x 3 7/8 planed.  It all depends on what the mill thinks will sell, and what they pawn off on us.  (we go through it by the skid of 1000 linear feet, this year I think we will have gone through at least 10 000 lin ft of it)

 

James

 

(edit to add space between Cu and M, apparently that's on the evil list around here...)

Edited February 15, 2015 by peach james

[67A]

I'm glad you said that. My provisional order list for next week is for 30 4 x 2 joists and 75mm board as infill. Glad we're on the same wavelength.

 

I'm going to use 12mm ply as the base flooring as I prefer it to chipboard.

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

 

Hope I'm not sticking my oar in but plywood has several disadvantages.

• The joints will obviously be 'Butt' style and prone to misalignment, if you use the chipboard flooring sheets previously described they have a pre-formed T&G moulding.
• Moisture and insect repellent is within the mixture IF YOU ORDER THE GREEN COLOURED VERSION. 
• No waste as your joints can fall anywhere in the floor space as the adjoining boards support it. Simply start in one corner and work along using the off-cut if any for the next row
• Much cheaper than ply!

Keep your joist centres at 16 inch (400mm) and you will be fine.

[Physicsman]

Mike, I appreciate your comments. I'd taken account of the butt-nature of the joints by the way I've planned the joisting.

 

I'd imagined separate chipboard "slabs", bot the interlocking flooring type. Nothing will be ordered until next week so I'll have a think - just don't be offended if I stick with ply!

 

Thanks, again, for the benefit of your experience. And please - DO shake your head if I sometimes do it "my way"!!

 

Jeff

[Andrew P]

Morning Jeff, sounds like the floor will be a lot warmer to the feet than in the previous incarnation of KL1 and be harder wearing as well.

 

Looking and sounding really good mate.

[MikeHemmings]

I think using the ply you will be able to remove a sheet if you ever need access under the floor, using the chip board you would have to cut the T&G off to remove it loosing the joint support.

 

Mike.

[PeterBB]

Mike, I appreciate your comments. I'd taken account of the butt-nature of the joints by the way I've planned the joisting.

 

I'd imagined separate chipboard "slabs", bot the interlocking flooring type. Nothing will be ordered until next week so I'll have a think - just don't be offended if I stick with ply!

 

Thanks, again, for the benefit of your experience. And please - DO shake your head if I sometimes do it "my way"!!

 

Jeff

Jeff,

 

Go for the green interlocking flooring chipboard - its better than ply on the floor (and normally just a wee bit cheaper).

 

Peter

[67A]

Hi Jeff,

 

No offence, just free advice. I agree the floor can not be lifted easily but how often does one do that in a garage?

 

Anyway here is a pic of my den under construction with secondhand boards taken from the walls of the old den! 

 

[Physicsman]

Thanks for the discussion lads. I'll think about what I'm going to do over the next few days while I'm having a bunker "breather".

 

The walls and ceiling are now complete - except for the tiny section near the door adjacent to the RCDs. Once the wiring is in (Saturday) I'll start on the floor.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Morning Jeff, sounds like the floor will be a lot warmer to the feet than in the previous incarnation of KL1 and be harder wearing as well.

 

Looking and sounding really good mate.

 

I put the heater on for an hour this morning. When I went into the bunker it was so warm that while I was working I had to open the door!

 

And that's before the floor gets done. Very encouraging!

 

Jeff

[Ardmore]

Morning James.

 

I've planned out the L-girder arrangement, joistings etc as well as I can, given that in-situ track positioning can change things - and I'm looking about 3-4 months ahead. The only major variable I haven't decided upon is the height of the baseboards.

 

I was at Jason's last week and his layout room includes the wonderful Bacup and his ongoing project - The Mill in EM gauge. The latter is designed to be portable for exhibitions and is (roughly) about 4' x 2'. What struck me, however, was the height of the baseboard - sat on its trestle table. It looked high to me and I guessed around 140cm. A tape measure showed it to be 125cm. Umm. Maybe I'm shrinking.... I'd thought I'd go for 130cm, but not sure now - even if I build a platform in the operators area.

 

Plenty to think about.

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,

 

High baseboards have several advantages as you get older! I'm in my mid-60s, 5 foot 9 inches, and my baseboards are 48 inches above the floor (about 120 cm). I have to duck under them to get to my storage sidings, and I want still to be able to that well into my 70s! Also, I found it was a good height for track laying, ballasting and scenic work, and meant I had a lot less lower back pain than on previous layouts where the baseboards were lower. Finally, I found it easier to work under the baseboard installing point motors and wiring. 

 

David

[Donington Road]

Hi Jeff,

 

High baseboards have several advantages as you get older! I'm in my mid-60s, 5 foot 9 inches, and my baseboards are 48 inches above the floor (about 120 cm). I have to duck under them to get to my storage sidings, and I want still to be able to that well into my 70s! Also, I found it was a good height for track laying, ballasting and scenic work, and meant I had a lot less lower back pain than on previous layouts where the baseboards were lower. Finally, I found it easier to work under the baseboard installing point motors and wiring. 

 

David

 

And if you find you have gone too high with the baseboards you can always raise the floor level at a later date but difficult to do the other way round.

In Jeff's case he may go high enough to incorporate a basement layout as well

Edited February 16, 2015 by Donington Road

[Physicsman]

And if you find you have gone too high with the baseboards you can always raise the floor level at a later date but difficult to do the other way round.

In Jeff's case he may go high enough to incorporate a basement layout as well

 

Quite agree.

 

I think it's inevitable that the baseboard level will be higher than I've built previously. A certainty, in fact, as it was 110cm last time, IIRC.

 

A central platform in the operating well is easy to install and doesn't get in the way of anything.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff,

 

High baseboards have several advantages as you get older! I'm in my mid-60s, 5 foot 9 inches, and my baseboards are 48 inches above the floor (about 120 cm). I have to duck under them to get to my storage sidings, and I want still to be able to that well into my 70s! Also, I found it was a good height for track laying, ballasting and scenic work, and meant I had a lot less lower back pain than on previous layouts where the baseboards were lower. Finally, I found it easier to work under the baseboard installing point motors and wiring. 

 

David

 

Reducing the strain of the "duck under" (it's very difficult to build a hinged-flap with the KL plan) and ease of underboard working are the driving forces behind my choice of baseboard height. My layouts are gradually getting higher - baseboard height-wise. Stay tuned (well, you'll have to wait a while!!) to see what happens with KL!

 

Btw, re. the comment under your avatar. What do you regard as the "wrong" side of the Pennines?   

 

Jeff

[Jason T]

The east side, obviously

 

I would have loved to have built Bacup higher but the sloping roof in the attic dictated that it is low down (perfect height for office chair operation though). With The Mill, I reckon it is at a spot on height as even though you are still looking down on the track when stood up, it is from the perspective of peering through an upper floor mill window rather than a helicopter.

 

A bar stool or similar may be an idea for extended operating periods on KL (and the Mill), and a decent height tripod for the inevitable photos of course

[Andrew P]

There I go again, just ticked a like and agree to some of the above, saves writing a post I suppose.

[Clive Mortimore]

The east side, obviously

 

I would have loved to have built Bacup higher but the sloping roof in the attic dictated that it is low down (perfect height for office chair operation though). With The Mill, I reckon it is at a spot on height as even though you are still looking down on the track when stood up, it is from the perspective of peering through an upper floor mill window rather than a helicopter.

 

A bar stool or similar may be an idea for extended operating periods on KL (and the Mill), and a decent height tripod for the inevitable photos of course

Hi Jason and All

 

Baseboard height should be what is most comfortable for operating. My two layouts are at differing heights. Brisbane Road is quite low and I can operate the layout form a normal height chair, nice and relaxing at an exhibition. It also allows the kids to see without Mum or Dad having to pick them up. Sheffield Exchange is quite a bit higher but when operating it on my own I need to be able to uncouple locos at the station end and move the traverser at the other end. Standing up is easier as I am moving from one end to the other frequently.

[CUTLER2579]

I agree 100% with "Ardmore" on Baseboard height. Mine are 1200mm as well

 

The wrong side of the Pennines. Surely he means the South side and is not anti to either of the Rose Counties. 

 

Regards,Derek.

[Jason T]

With The Mill, we wanted it tall(ish) as both of us prefer the perspective of looking across rather than down upon at exhibitions. Also, the main building (the focal point of the layout) is far more imposing if you are looking across at it rather than down. I imagine there will be some gripes about the height from wheelchair users and it is a shame but for the majority, I think this height will work. I can't see kids being interested in the layout at all because it will be tiny locos shuffling 2 or 3 wagons around, maximum.

 

I guess for a home layout like KL, then it depends on the practicality of access and what perspective you prefer to view from. With KL1, I found myself crouching down a lot to get more of a trackside / slightly raised view and I guess our esteemed host feels likewise.

[Physicsman]

There I go again, just ticked a like and agree to some of the above, saves writing a post I suppose.

 

There I go again, just ticked a "funny" and agree to all of the above, saves writing a post I suppose!!       

 

Jeff