Henley-on-Thames - GWR in the 1930's

[Neal Ball]

It’s been a few unusual days since the passing of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

 

Being “overseas” we have both been glued to BBC news for the unfolding news during this strange time. Clearly with the funeral on Monday, it will be a while yet before things start to find a “new normal”.

 

I didn’t have the privilege of meeting the Queen, or the Duke, but I did meet King Charles.  The occasion was when he opened the refurbishment of Woking station, which included a new roadside canopy. (Just outside our office).

 

I had just been promoted and Woking was one of my new branches as an Area Manager. Somewhere, I have the photo of him being given a Leaders branded balloon! (The BBC covered over the branding on that evenings TV news) 🤣

[ChrisN]

31 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Interesting Gerry thank you.

 

Typically in my bit of the GWR foreign locos would be changed at Oxford or Reading, but there were loads of examples of locos working beyond those points. Maybe there wasn’t such a hard and fast rule as you would imagine being in place today.

 

Surely, if there was a 'foreign loco, the crew would not know the route so you would need a Locomotive Inspector on the footplate?  Likewise, you could not have a local crew that knew the route as they would not know the locomotive.

[Neal Ball]

Although it’s been a strange time, I have been able to get some work in the railway room….

 

Which included a major clear up, to try and find the frosted plastic I had put aside for the restaurant carriages project… plus of course toilets on normal stock. Wherever it is, it’s somewhere very safe!

 

Re: changing bricks! 
 

The signal box has been changed completely and now sports the correct Blue Engineering bricks as per the original signal box at Henley.

 

 

 

I’m very pleased with the result. I need to do more fettling to it, to bring the landscape up to the building and hard standing at the bottom of the stairs.

 

Thanks to Mike @The Stationmaster for the encouragement.

 

Back to the carriage project now.

[Neal Ball]

21 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Surely, if there was a 'foreign loco, the crew would not know the route so you would need a Locomotive Inspector on the footplate?  Likewise, you could not have a local crew that knew the route as they would not know the locomotive.

Yes, any loco on foreign rails would need an inspector. Maybe(?) crews from say the Southern would have route knowledge into the Great Western. Mike @The Stationmaster will be the one to tell us 😎

[MrWolf]

That would make sense and seem to be the most efficient method rather than changing locomotives at point X. I'd be interested to know also and if @The Stationmastercan't provide a definitive answer from his mine of prototype information then I suspect that you can pretty much run anything within reason and add a third man to the footplate perhaps?

[Chuffer Davies]

If the foreigner worked through, what would happen at t’other end of the train.  Would the guard and guard’s van be swapped still or would just the guard swap, or would there be a 2nd local guard with route knowledge?

[Neal Ball]

Re: glazing the H44

 

Its not easy to get the glazing settled into the windows! But at least once it’s done the carriage will look great.

 

At the moment the glass is fixed as a temporary process. I will glue it all later and remove the protective films. The instructions say not to use Superglue as it causes fogging….. I’ve tried a small section and that hasn’t fogged at all….

 

The plastic glazing is from Comet.

 

Although I could try using plastic glue as it’s very close to the original body.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Fatadder]

54 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Re: glazing the H44

 

Its not easy to get the glazing settled into the windows! But at least once it’s done the carriage will look great.

 

At the moment the glass is fixed as a temporary process. I will glue it all later and remove the protective films. The instructions say not to use Superglue as it causes fogging….. I’ve tried a small section and that hasn’t fogged at all….

 

The plastic glazing is from Comet.

 

Although I could try using plastic glue as it’s very close to the original body.

 

 

 

 

 

I find the fogging is a bit hit and miss with superglue and windows, having it open to allow fresh air in / fumes to escape certainly helps, but I find it pretty random between working and not.   I now mostly use impact adhesive for the job.   My Centenaries are still sat on the shelf awaiting additional detailing (and glazing), hopefully will get to it this winter... 

[Neal Ball]

29 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

I find the fogging is a bit hit and miss with superglue and windows, having it open to allow fresh air in / fumes to escape certainly helps, but I find it pretty random between working and not.   I now mostly use impact adhesive for the job.   My Centenaries are still sat on the shelf awaiting additional detailing (and glazing), hopefully will get to it this winter... 

 

Thanks Rich,

I will swap glues to the impact one then.... testing first of course!

 

Maybe it would be better if I did it in the back garden.... certainly any fumes will be able to escape then.

[Metropolitan H]

On 13/09/2022 at 13:58, ChrisN said:

 

Surely, if there was a 'foreign loco, the crew would not know the route so you would need a Locomotive Inspector on the footplate?  Likewise, you could not have a local crew that knew the route as they would not know the locomotive.

I think there are at least twotypes of working to consider:

        - Regular timetable operation of through trains.

        - Special / Excursions, such as those for Henley Regatta / Ascot Races etc.

 

Although it doesn't apply to the Henley Branch - there were a number of interesting "Regular" inter company / region workings in the Reading and Oxford area.

- Southern Railway locos regularly worked long distance "South Coast" to "Midlands and North" from Basingstoke through to Oxford via Reading West and Didcot. (Can be seen in Miniature at Pendon - Guy Williams built a beautiful "King Arthur" for the purpose).

- There were LNER trains through to Swindon from ex GCR lines onto the GWR at Banbury. (Can also be seen in Miniature at Pendon - they have at least one LNER C1 "Large Atlantic" and relevant train of LNER teak stock).

- Through into BR days there was a regular working by a WR loco and crew from the Western Shed at Reading - taking a train from Reading Southern to Redhill / Tonbridge (?) and back. This was specially run to maintain the "Route Knowledge" of the Western loco crews at Reading.

 

These regular workings would not need the regular presence of Inspectors or Pilot men - as the regular crews would learn the route and sign for it.

 

In the case of the "Special / Excursion" workings, if there were insufficient crews with relevant route and loco knowledge, then Inspectors or "Pilot Men" would be provided - diverted from their more regular duties.

 

Now I await correction / further education.

 

Regards

Chris H

[MrWolf]

I recall reading somewhere that trains hauled by Castle class locos made their way as far abroad as Leicester Great Central on a regular basis via the GW/GC Joint line, so I would expect the opposite to be true.

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, Metropolitan H said:

I think there are at least twotypes of working to consider:

        - Regular timetable operation of through trains.

        - Special / Excursions, such as those for Henley Regatta / Ascot Races etc.

 

Although it doesn't apply to the Henley Branch - there were a number of interesting "Regular" inter company / region workings in the Reading and Oxford area.

- Southern Railway locos regularly worked long distance "South Coast" to "Midlands and North" from Basingstoke through to Oxford via Reading West and Didcot. (Can be seen in Miniature at Pendon - Guy Williams built a beautiful "King Arthur" for the purpose).

- There were LNER trains through to Swindon from ex GCR lines onto the GWR at Banbury. (Can also be seen in Miniature at Pendon - they have at least one LNER C1 "Large Atlantic" and relevant train of LNER teak stock).

- Through into BR days there was a regular working by a WR loco and crew from the Western Shed at Reading - taking a train from Reading Southern to Redhill / Tonbridge (?) and back. This was specially run to maintain the "Route Knowledge" of the Western loco crews at Reading.

 

These regular workings would not need the regular presence of Inspectors or Pilot men - as the regular crews would learn the route and sign for it.

 

In the case of the "Special / Excursion" workings, if there were insufficient crews with relevant route and loco knowledge, then Inspectors or "Pilot Men" would be provided - diverted from their more regular duties.

 

Now I await correction / further education.

 

Regards

Chris H

 

Thanks for this Chris. I think you are correct with this.

 

5 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

I recall reading somewhere that trains hauled by Castle class locos made their way as far abroad as Leicester Great Central on a regular basis via the GW/GC Joint line, so I would expect the opposite to be true.

 

I am sure I have also read that somewhere.... Maybe a Castle class loco (or two) were photographed... but, I suspect other 4-6-0 locos would have got that far North as well. 

[Neal Ball]

Re: Glazing part 2:

 

The glass is now drying on one side of the H44. 

 

I followed this with painting the tables for the H44 and these will need further work before they are ready to be installed.

 

TBC

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, Neal Ball said:

 

tI am sure I have also read that somewhere.... Maybe a Castle class loco (or two) were photographed... but, I suspect other 4-6-0 locos would have got that far North as well. 

 

Thinking about it, i have definitely seen photos of Castles at Leicester, taken in the fifties and I think it was in the book Main line lament or similar on the GC London extension.

[Sabato]

At least twice to my knowledge. In 1964 {?) I was on an Ian Allen trip to Doncaster Works, from Paddington to Leicester (or Nottingham Vic? Can't properly remember now) behind 7029 Clun Castle, and behind Royal Scots Guardsman on to Donnie. The trip was so popular it was repeated the following weekend. 

[MrWolf]

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=148539

 

This is a Hall at Leicester Central on freight duty in 1959. You can see the old GCR  parcels office behind the train, which is the only building still standing at platform level.

[Nick Gough]

Somewhere I have three photos of a Hall lying on its side, near Rugby, following an accident, when it was hauling a York-Swindon express in 1961. I believe this was on a regular return working from Swindon to Leicester.

 

There is also the story of a Grange, which was allowed to go forward, in error, from Leicester, until the cylinders collided with a platform edge somewhere up north and was then impounded until a safe return route was established.

[Nick Gough]

The accident in question:

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=155#:~:text=Report on the Derailment which occurred on 11th,collision on the Great Central Railway in 1961.

[Coach bogie]

In 1925 4082 and 111 both travelled via Leicester and Nottingham to Darlington. I have a shot somewhere of 111 with the articulated train leaving Nottingham.

 

Much later you could see 3440 City of Truro using this route, light engine on its' way to Scotland in 1959 for the Scottish Industries Exhibition

 

The Grange mentioned got as far as Huddersfield. It was taken to Hillhouse shed, long closed, but the land is now likely to see trains again as part of the Trans Pennine Upgrade. It was returned as an out of gauge load via Manchester.

 

My favourite is still 6029 King Stephen based at Agecroft shed Near Salford/Manchester in 1930. One of my L&Y friends has images of this.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited September 16, 2022 by Coach bogie

[Neal Ball]

10 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

Thinking about it, i have definitely seen photos of Castles at Leicester, taken in the fifties and I think it was in the book Main line lament or similar on the GC London extension.

 

10 hours ago, Sabato said:

At least twice to my knowledge. In 1964 {?) I was on an Ian Allen trip to Doncaster Works, from Paddington to Leicester (or Nottingham Vic? Can't properly remember now) behind 7029 Clun Castle, and behind Royal Scots Guardsman on to Donnie. The trip was so popular it was repeated the following weekend. 

 

9 hours ago, MrWolf said:

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=148539

 

This is a Hall at Leicester Central on freight duty in 1959. You can see the old GCR  parcels office behind the train, which is the only building still standing at platform level.

 

2 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Somewhere I have three photos of a Hall lying on its side, near Rugby, following an accident, when it was hauling a York-Swindon express in 1961. I believe this was on a regular return working from Swindon to Leicester.

 

There is also the story of a Grange, which was allowed to go forward, in error, from Leicester, until the cylinders collided with a platform edge somewhere up north and was then impounded until a safe return route was established.

 

2 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

The accident in question:

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=155#:~:text=Report on the Derailment which occurred on 11th,collision on the Great Central Railway in 1961.

 

2 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

In 1925 4082 and 111 both travelled via Leicester and Nottingham to Darlington. I have a shot somewhere of 111 with the articulated train leaving Nottingham.

 

Much later you could see 3440 City of Truro using this route, light engine on its' way to Scotland in 1959 for the Scottish Industries Exhibition

 

The Grange mentioned got as far as Huddersfield. It was taken to Hillhouse shed, long closed, but the land is now likely to see trains again as part of the Trans Pennine Upgrade. It was returned as an out of gauge load via Manchester.

 

My favourite is still 6029 King Stephen based at Agecroft shed Near Salford/Manchester in 1930. One of my L&Y friends has images of this.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Fascinating stories thank you.

 

Is it possible that locos off the old GWR routes increased post nationisation?

[Neal Ball]

Work continues on the H44 with the glazing now complete.

 

Table lamps are about to be added:

 

[Neal Ball]

Test fitting the new tables and lamps.

 

Ive set the height at 7mm and reckon that’s probably about right. 16 tables to go!

 

[Neal Ball]

Only one casualty!

 

 

I now need to add the lamps on the furthest side, then wire them all up.

[Neal Ball]

First set of lights temporarily wired up. 
 

The cream light shades will make a contrast to the 1st class ones. 
 

I have wired in a 10k resister to the lamps and will be adding a Flickr free circuit as well.

 

 

[Harlequin]

I went to the Kernow anniversary open day in Camborne today and finally got to see the Railmotor in the flesh - and to handle one. It's lovely with some really nice details and the chocolate and cream panelled version looks delicious. Also got to see and handle livery samples of the new Dapol Mainline and City toplights and they look great too. We GWR fans have a lot to look forward to! (I didn't take any photos because it seemed crass and somewhat redundant...)

 

I had a good long chat with @Graham_Muz about everything from Chinese factories to railway relatives to difficult liveries! The discussion included in depth analysis of the roadworks on the A30 which made my journey a lot longer than I had anticipated and unfortunately meant that I missed chatting to @The Stationmaster. (Thanks Graham. Sorry Mike.)

 

I was on the verge of buying a beautiful O gauge 58xx and I looked long and hard at the Dapol Manors but I stopped and told myself to be sensible!

 

One day, when I have a proper scenic model to populate, when the A30 is finished and I have an electric car, I will go back.