bécasse Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 R4842 is numbered as S5145S, the low window composite in set 399 (the brake thirds were S3232S & S3233S). Normally the Southern adhered to strict rules as to which way round the composite was marshalled between the two brake thirds but the composites for these 10 set (390-399) were built and released into traffic ahead of the brake thirds and were randomly allocated when the sets were formed. To get a set absolutely right, one would need a photo which showed the number of one of the brakes and which showed the composite sufficiently clearly to be certain which way round it was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) Normally the Southern adhered to strict rules as to which way round the composite was marshalled between the two brake thirds but the composites for these 10 set (390-399) were built and released into traffic ahead of the brake thirds and were randomly allocated when the sets were formed. To get a set absolutely right, one would need a photo which showed the number of one of the brakes and which showed the composite sufficiently clearly to be certain which way round it was. My records show that all these sets had the CK formed in the required manner, the first-class end next to the first-listed 4-compartment BTK in the table below. Set BTK CK BTK 390 3214 5138 3215 391 3216 5139 3217 392 3218 5141 3219 393 3220 5137 3221 394 3222 5143 3223 395 3224 5146 3225 396 3228 5140 3229 397 3226 5142 3231 398 3230 5144 3227 399 3232 5145 3233 The CKs were completed first and then stored until the BTKs were ready for them. Edited December 15, 2018 by talisman56 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) Normally the Southern adhered to strict rules as to which way round the composite was marshalled between the two brake thirds but the composites for these 10 set (390-399) were built and released into traffic ahead of the brake thirds and were randomly allocated when the sets were formed. To get a set absolutely right, one would need a photo which showed the number of one of the brakes and which showed the composite sufficiently clearly to be certain which way round it was. I stand corrected re. my use of the word "original" in post #174 ("published" might be better), but the models in question will be in BR livery and (AFAIK) no SR equivalents are promised, so how the sets were formed when first put together doesn't really come into it. Incidentally, I have only just spotted 6-compt. BTK, R4836 (s2763s) + CK, R4839 (s5673s) + 6-compt BTK, R4838 (s2764s) forming high-window 3-Set No.230 plus a new run of Vans B in BR green, in the "forthcoming attractions". John Edited December 15, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I expect that the coaches were still form into sets in the same manner before and after nationalization. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 The 390-399/445-448 3-sets were formed exactly the same from introduction to withdrawl, apart from occasional temporary augmenting with Restaurant First and Open Third in Southern days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted December 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2018 My records show that all these sets had the CK formed in the required manner, the first-class end next to the first-listed 4-compartment BTK in the table below. Set BTK CK BTK 390 3214 5138 3215 391 3216 5139 3217 392 3218 5141 3219 393 3220 5137 3221 394 3222 5143 3223 395 3224 5146 3225 396 3228 5140 3229 397 3226 5142 3231 398 3230 5144 3227 399 3232 5145 3233 The CKs were completed first and then stored until the BTKs were ready for them. So, to create a rule of thumb, it's first class compartments end next to the lower numbered BTK. The exception being set 398... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted December 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2018 The ability to read coach numbers - which are by no means large - while operating, is a pre-requisite to this mattering at all. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted December 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2018 The ability to read coach numbers - which are by no means large - while operating, is a pre-requisite to this mattering at all. Agreed. When I was younger my eyesight could do it, but now I'm nearing fifty I'm finding that I can't see stuff the way I used to, and it's only going to get worse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted December 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2018 The coaches for set 399 (R4840, R4841 and R4842) are in stock at Rails, apparently, but not yet at Hattons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2018 The ability to read coach numbers - which are by no means large - while operating, is a pre-requisite to this mattering at all. Agreed, I just go by the much larger set numbers (having ensured they are formed of the correct vehicle types) and treat the running numbers as correct until I get round to making them so..... John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted December 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2018 The coaches for set 399 (R4840, R4841 and R4842) are in stock at Rails, apparently, but not yet at Hattons. ...and today now in stock at Hattons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Hello all! I have a rather specific query... I currently possess four Hornby Maunsells, all in Olive, and am looking for an authentic set number for them. Does anyone know of a series of set numbers for the following configurations, if there were any sets of those configurations: BTK-TK-TK-BTK BTK-TK-BTK BTK-BTK TK-BTK If not then I'll look at getting an FK or CK to allow an authentic set to be produced. I'd rather the set was no longer than four coaches, however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) Hello all! I have a rather specific query... I currently possess four Hornby Maunsells, all in Olive, and am looking for an authentic set number for them. Does anyone know of a series of set numbers for the following configurations, if there were any sets of those configurations: BTK-TK-TK-BTK BTK-TK-BTK BTK-BTK TK-BTK If not then I'll look at getting an FK or CK to allow an authentic set to be produced. I'd rather the set was no longer than four coaches, however. None of these combinations are authentic - all Maunsel sets had some first class accommodation - and unlike todays trains there was a decent amount of it too. A BTK(4) + CK +BTK(4) combination would have 11 second class compartments and 4 first for example (i.e. nearly one 1st class for every 3rd class ones). If you want a 4 coach set then BTK(6) + FL + TK + BTK(6) is a valid set configuration so you only need to purchase a FK..... But I believe these 4 coach sets only used the 6 compartment brake coaches, not the 4 compartment varient However 3 coach sets would be BTK(4) + CK + BTK(4) thus needing a CK (note a BTK + FK +BTK is not a valid set combination) Purchasing 2 CKs however would give another valid 4 coach formation of BTK(6) + CK + CK + BTK(6) if you have the right variant of brake coach Two coach sets would be the combination of a BTK(6) and a BCK (these were made from the 6 compartment brake coaches, not the 4 compartment ones found on the 3 car sets). Edited January 5, 2019 by phil-b259 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 The two BTKs I have are six-compartment ones so I think my best bet would be to get myself an FK. I do have one, but it's in crimson and cream so would probably be best sold to fund an olive one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2019 Ebay has multiple copies of R4299 CK and R4298 FK, also R4770 FK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) The two BTKs I have are six-compartment ones so I think my best bet would be to get myself an FK. I do have one, but it's in crimson and cream so would probably be best sold to fund an olive one. Having a FK in a 3-set was very rare, though I think there was one, early on, so formed of low-window stock. The usual three-coach combination was BTK+CK+BTK. 4-sets varied and could be BTK+CK+TK+BTK or BTK+FK+TK+BTK. There were even a few formed BTK+CK+CK+BTK. You should therefore be looking for a CK or a FK+TK. However, if it were me, I'd be looking for a CK+TK, so I could make a set up with 3 or 4 coaches as I fancied. John EDIT: Just noticed you already have a TK and nearly all the above has been covered by Phil259 anyway. Advice re getting a CK rather than an FK holds, though Edited January 5, 2019 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2019 Here you'll find a file detailing all the Southern coach sets - http://www.semgonline.com/coach/sets.html 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted February 3, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2019 Before 1958, sets 100-110 were comprised of a Maunsell BCK and a SECR 10 compartment TK. Whats the easiest way to represent the SECR coach? The BCK was a diagram 2401 coach modelled by Hornby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 12 hours ago, JohnR said: Before 1958, sets 100-110 were comprised of a Maunsell BCK and a SECR 10 compartment TK. Whats the easiest way to represent the SECR coach? The BCK was a diagram 2401 coach modelled by Hornby. It isn't an ex-SECR ten compartment TK, it is an ex-SECR ten compartment T, in other words it was (like most SECR carriages) a non-corridor vehicle (with ten separate compartments) seating 100. The SECR built a large number of these vehicles quite late on with the intention that they would eventually be formed into electric train sets. Ironically, given that a good proportion of SR suburban sets were made up from former steam-hauled carriages (albeit sometimes on new under frames), none of these vehicles did make it into electric sets and were instead used by the SR as their "standard" non-corridor third operating (normally as strengthening vehicles) over the whole network and not just over the former SECR routes; some were even equipped to work with pull & push units. The lack of a ready-to-run model is perhaps one of the greatest lacks in SR carriage models today. They were distinctiv, albeit simple, vehicles (though some had their lower sides match-boarded) which are near impossible to convincingly convert from something else, although I believe that someone may produce at least the sides as etchings. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Yes, etched sides are available from Mousa Models and Worsley Works ............. they're the same length as the Bachmann birdcages, of course, but the angle-trussed underfame and ( what became ) standard Southern bogies preclude any thoughts of a simple rebuild ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
145 Squadron Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Mousa model brass sides, 247 Development cast bogies, most of the rest from plasticard. Hardest part was the roof which I eventually made from plasticard over a wood former. I believe you can now get a nice aluminium extrusion from Southern Railway Group now. Tony 7 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted February 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, 145 Squadron said: Mousa model brass sides, 247 Development cast bogies, most of the rest from plasticard. Hardest part was the roof which I eventually made from plasticard over a wood former. I believe you can now get a nice aluminium extrusion from Southern Railway Group now. Tony " I believe you can now get a nice aluminium extrusion from Southern Railway Group now." Do you know if that would be from the 'Phoenix' range? A very nice build there Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
145 Squadron Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 John, Not sure; Chris was selling them on the SRG stand at the Southampton exhibition in Eastleigh recently - I think there are two widths, 8' and 8'6 for £2.50 per roof. I would suggest you contact him direct for further details. Certainly saves a lot of time and effort as it is a difficult profile to fabricate. Tony 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 2 hours ago, 145 Squadron said: John, Not sure; Chris was selling them on the SRG stand at the Southampton exhibition in Eastleigh recently - I think there are two widths, 8' and 8'6 for £2.50 per roof. I would suggest you contact him direct for further details. Certainly saves a lot of time and effort as it is a difficult profile to fabricate. Tony I THINK they're LSWR profile rather than SECR .......... probably the extrusion that originated with PC Models then Wheeltapper Coaches .... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteN92 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 I'm interested in some clarification on the P-sets which were made up of a BCK and BTK for WoE services. I understand that these were very common on the North Cornwall railway and were the local services. Would they also be used on the North Devon branch lines towards ilfracombe or were they unique to just the NCR ? cheers Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now