robmcg Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) After all the dramas of this thread, I did end up with a rather nice TMC weathered 4707.... will remove if it offends. Looking at it in the cold grey light of, shall we say, elapsed time, the faults are there, but my, what an impressive model! Cheers edit; p.s. this is just a colour-corrected version of one previously shown. Edited January 30, 2020 by robmcg 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted January 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2020 Looks very good, Rob. They were very impressive locos and I look forward to the new build steaming. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted January 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2020 9 hours ago, robmcg said: After all the dramas of this thread, I did end up with a rather nice TMC weathered 4707.... will remove if it offends. Looking at it in the cold grey light of, shall we say, elapsed time, the faults are there, but my, what an impressive model! Cheers edit; p.s. this is just a colour-corrected version of one previously shown. Can't tell what's weathering and what's been "photoshopped"... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Harlequin said: Can't tell what's weathering and what's been "photoshopped"... FWIW the stains on the boiler are by TMC, the engine itself has not been "photoshopped" , the smoke is obviously painted with a computer, the colours of the entire picture are "photoshopped" by the same methods used in all digital photos, brightness, colour, saturation, some areas being altered in that respect, which is the same as all cameras these days when you set 'auto'. and even less than when TW or Gilbert of PN "photoshop" skies and backgrounds. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) After all the dramas with damaged 4700 locos from Heljan, (and, to be fair, many excellent ones), and having re-read much of this long thread, I see that very early on some people thought they might wait until the price dropped (as happened with the O2 and Hattons) . I can find no record of such a price-drop from any retailers for the 47XX models. Given that there are a few left for sale in green in particular, I am wondering about the rarity of BR black versions and/or another production as per the Heljan Garratts. Did any 47XXs ever get 'remaindered'? Edited January 31, 2020 by robmcg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuselah Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I bought one of these locos, but I've no where to run it yet. In practice - how much will they pull....and how does that compare with what the real ones pulled in terms of number or wagons....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 More than the average layout can accommodate, they are heavy. They need quite large radius curves, being long wheelbase, and the front pony truck can derail on rough track and pointwork. The motors are strong. Early in this thread there was mention of long trains on grades without problems. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuselah Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 18 hours ago, robmcg said: More than the average layout can accommodate, they are heavy. They need quite large radius curves, being long wheelbase, and the front pony truck can derail on rough track and pointwork. The motors are strong. Early in this thread there was mention of long trains on grades without problems. Thanks Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewCarty Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I'm hoping at some point in the next couple of years Heljan will produce some more of these. I have one (which was all I could afford at the time), but I'd really like a second BR one. With the exception of a couple of the GW ones they have all sold out pretty quickly so hopefully it is a case of when rather than if. Maybe they'll also find a way of getting the front end to stay together in transit, and maybe fix a few of the other issues raised (number plates spring to mind). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 46 minutes ago, MatthewCarty said: I'm hoping at some point in the next couple of years Heljan will produce some more of these... Since Heljan have announced (joy unbounded) the GNR cab and tender variants of the O2 - the LNER cab and tender versions of which were remaindered - the chances of another batch of 47xx emerging in time must be good. On 05/02/2020 at 00:54, Methuselah said: I bought one of these locos, but I've no where to run it yet. In practice - how much will they pull....and how does that compare with what the real ones pulled in terms of number or wagons....? The O2 which is in the significant material respects the same mechanism will drag around past 100 wagons (mostly RTR, some kitbuilt including whitemetal) and that's as long a goods as the GWR operated (slow mineral behind a 28xx.) I would expect the fast fitted freight turns were around the fifty wagon mark. All close coupled, that's a train exceeding four metres in length... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuselah Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 9 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Since Heljan have announced (joy unbounded) the GNR cab and tender variants of the O2 - the LNER cab and tender versions of which were remaindered - the chances of another batch of 47xx emerging in time must be good. The O2 which is in the significant material respects the same mechanism will drag around past 100 wagons (mostly RTR, some kitbuilt including whitemetal) and that's as long a goods as the GWR operated (slow mineral behind a 28xx.) I would expect the fast fitted freight turns were around the fifty wagon mark. All close coupled, that's a train exceeding four metres in length... You've pre-empted another of my questions there, which is 'was there a set maximum number of wagons'. I seem to remember reading somewhere it was a blanket 80 wagons on the GWR, but then I also heard stories verbally that 2800 often pulled 100 wagons - and the 4700 was more powerful. Presumably there would have been references to this in the printed rules - what would be the publication to look at I wonder....? Did it vary depending on what line it was - as some lines only had shorter goods-loops etc.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 There will have been such rules, but I don't have any GWR information, what with being a dry sider... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) If Hilux5972 doesn't object, and I am sure he is man of honour, here is a TMC-weathered 47XX with some editing but certainly not disguising what great models these are, with many, no, some, photos from wartime-on displaying considerable un-Swindon-like wear-and-tear. Either that or it's a 1949-photo from the days when colour photography was getting underway.... Edited February 11, 2020 by robmcg grammar 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 An interesting comparison of the Heljan 4706 BR black in near-factory condition and my grafting it onto a b+w public domain (I hope) image of a BR 47XX 4703.. note; this was a a progress pic not a 'finished' version. Followed by an edited version. Many and various errors on my part but it does show how close the model is. I know it is not to everyone's taste , not being a strictly accurate photo of a model, but I hope Hilux5972 will forgive me. Great engines these, in my opinion. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 12, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) On 22/03/2019 at 22:28, Garethp8873 said: I need a replacement tender buffer for my GWR Shirtbutton 47xx. Looking at the pamphlet, I can see several listings for buffers but I cannot tell which one I would need to order. Can anyone help please? For the tender.. I used a Bachmann buffer on the tender on mine. No one would notice from viewing distance. 36-032 Round head (not 36-035 which is LNER/SR style). To keep appearance I replaced both buffers. Hornby 2800/3800 tender buffers are very nice, but the Bachmann one is probably closer... catalog X6209. All found on ebay. Edited February 12, 2020 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Bit late to party (as always) Finally treated myself to two 47xx's. 4705 was an eBay purchase which as advertised had a snapped buffer but otherwise ok. 4707 was also eBay but "brand new". Disappointed in Heljans packaging to say the least. Both models have been severely damaged in the mail. Both of them have both loco side steps busted off. 4707 there is a piece of the steps missing so gotta fabricate up a piece of plasticard to fill in the gap. Also they have one tender step bent over at a 45° angle (same side). Both have snapped drawbars under the tender. 4705 has the busted off front frame and the pony truck wheels were halfway down the side of the boiler. Heljan build quality also suspect as both safety bonnets detached and the topfeed pipes had gone walkabout . Disgraceful packaging/build quality for the original money asked by Heljan. IMO Edited February 18, 2020 by lofty1966 spellcheck 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, lofty1966 said: Bit late to party (as always) Finally treated myself to two 47xx's. 4705 was an eBay purchase which as advertised had a snapped buffer but otherwise ok. 4707 was also eBay but "brand new". Disappointed in Heljans packaging to say the least. Both models have been severely damaged in the mail. Both of them have both loco side steps busted off. 4707 there is a piece of the steps missing so gotta fabricate up a piece of plasticard to fill in the gap. Also they have one tender step bent over at a 45° angle (same side). Both have snapped drawbars under the tender. 4705 has the busted off front frame and the pony truck wheels were halfway down the side of the boiler. Heljan build quality also suspect as bother safety bonnets detached and the topfeed pipes had gone walkabout . Disgraceful packaging/build quality for the original money asked by Heljan. IMO Sounds very familiar. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted February 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2020 I'd still like to have a 47xx myself. But! They didn't make it past the Severn Tunnel. Drat & Blast! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 On 18/02/2020 at 11:05, gwrrob said: Sounds very familiar. No stock of drawbar at Gaugemaster (Heljans new spare parts supplier) so special order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted March 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 4, 2020 2 hours ago, lofty1966 said: No stock of drawbar at Gaugemaster (Heljans new spare parts supplier) so special order. Surely not beyond the wit of man to produce a replacement - perhaps even from wire? Regards, John Isherwood, 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 49 minutes ago, cctransuk said: Surely not beyond the wit of man to produce a replacement - perhaps even from wire? Regards, John Isherwood, Yes I could. I chose to go for original. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 5, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 5, 2020 On 19/02/2020 at 19:01, tomparryharry said: I'd still like to have a 47xx myself. But! They didn't make it past the Severn Tunnel. Drat & Blast! Rule 1 applies.... which is why I can run a King and 47xx into Henley on Thames! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) On 04/03/2020 at 18:17, lofty1966 said: Yes I could. I chose to go for original. Well at 2 quid a pop a £2.50 handling charge and a quote of £7.61 postage charge, Heljan and Gaugemaster can cluck right orf. I'm making my own ! Edited March 6, 2020 by lofty1966 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted March 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2020 14 hours ago, lofty1966 said: Well at 2 quid a pop a £2.50 handling charge and a quote of £7.61 postage charge, Heljan and Gaugemaster can cluck right orf. I'm making my own ! "special order" rang the bells for me - I'm not surprised at the quoted price. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2020 (edited) On 10/02/2020 at 22:03, Methuselah said: You've pre-empted another of my questions there, which is 'was there a set maximum number of wagons'. I seem to remember reading somewhere it was a blanket 80 wagons on the GWR, but then I also heard stories verbally that 2800 often pulled 100 wagons - and the 4700 was more powerful. Presumably there would have been references to this in the printed rules - what would be the publication to look at I wonder....? Did it vary depending on what line it was - as some lines only had shorter goods-loops etc.... Most main line railways in the UK most of the time ran to a length limit of 60 wagon lengths (the measurement being expressed in ‘Basic Wagon Units’, BWU, the length of a standard length wagon on a 9’ or 10’ wheelbase). Loops and layby sidings were laid out and signalling clearances set on that basis. Space was allowed for assisting or banking locos and the brake van. There were of course exceptions; the GW, LNW, Midland, and GN all ran regular 90 or 100 wagon coal trains into yards in London. These had to be signalled under special block regulations so that they could occupy 2 blocks at a time. On the South Wales Main Line, 90 wagon trains were permitted on the relief lines between Severn Tunnel Jc and Pengam,and in the Tidal Brnch in Cardiff; again, special block regulations were used and the trains had to have a guaranteed clear road through Newport High Street station. There may well have been other places where such running was permitted. For BR, the relevant instructions will be in the appropriate Section Appendices. A daily 100 wagon coal train ran for many years from Stoke Gifford (Bristol Parkway nowadays) to Acton behind a 28xx, and this could load to over 1,000 tons. The Great Bear is said to have managed a 2,000 ton train on this route, which shows that whatever else it’s problems were, it could certainly pull! AFAIK 47xx were never tried on these trains, as the 28xx could cope and the 47xx’s forte was heavy fitted express work; they could probably not be spared for mineral traffic. Not sure any were allox Bath Road, either; Old Oak, Laira, and Oxley were their usual depots. Edited March 7, 2020 by The Johnster 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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