sandwich station Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 . No, the "new" Exeter has an (incorrect) AWS box. Yes I know that but only the keen eyed and people that know about when AWS was fitted would know it's not meant to be there, apart from that they look the same, whereas the Manston's have the early/late BR logo, original/cut down tender and if we are splitting hairs, no AWS/ AWS fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 4, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2016 ........ I wonder if post-1963 the Bulleids were ever seen with Pannier tanks in the background in a shed scene? They certainly should have been, Bath Green Park, Exmouth Junction, Salisbury and Nine Elms all had allocations of 57xx and/or 8750 class panniers. Salisbury and Nine Elms lost theirs during 1963, as did Feltham which had three, one of which ended up on banking duties at Exeter. Exmouth Junction also had a number of the 64xx class for a short while that year, including two of those subsequently preserved. Wadebridge lost the last of its 57xx in 1963 but had three 1366 dock tanks until the autumn of 1964. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 4, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2016 robmcg, on 04 Jan 2016 - 19:37, said: I wonder if post-1963 the Bulleids were ever seen with Pannier tanks in the background in a shed scene? Does this count? http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p978695097/h38870beb#h38870beb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Does this count? http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p978695097/h38870beb#h38870beb Yes certainly! Thanks. I have Manston waiting to be photographed, just did 34006 'Bude'. The photo above is sad, but the outcome has been good! The picture is here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82970-hornbys-best-ever-models/page-29&do=findComment&comment=2151872 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiebrfan Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Hi there, has anyone had a go at chipping one of these yet? Just wondering where plug is located? Are there any pitfalls or things I should be aware of? Cheers G 8 Pin Plug should be in the tender. With the loco inverted in the plastic innards of the box (keeps everything straight and you less likely to break off the tender steps), first off disconnect the plug and tender coupling bar (you may wonder why but I'll get to that), then undo the to screws that secure the tender body to the chassis (these are locate either side of the NEM coupling socket). With the two parts being separated, leave the engine where it is and take the tender and separate the body from the chassis - it will need a fair bit of persuasion to get apart the first time (the redesign for DCC Sound has made them tougher to get apart). Thanks a lot Hornby!!! Just over a year later and I have finally got round to fitting a decoder. The rebuilts were always a pain to remove the body and fit a chip without breaking some pipework or small details compared to the airsmoothed which were relatively easy only having to remove one screw at the front. However since Hornby have now put the decoder in the tender it is ridiculously difficult to install a chip. - Remove two screws at back of tender, nothing happens - Try to unplug small wire plug without breaking any wires, only you cant because the wheel keeper piece of plastic doesn't let you - Unscrew two screws of wheel keeper plate, doesn't unclip easily - Unscrew tender coupling screw - Only then can you carefully remove wire plug - Tender is now disconnected totally so you'd think you can remove tender top from base, sadly no. It doesn't come away without a lot of forceful pulling, sweating, praying, trying not to break any ladders, buffers or small details and stress!! Thank you Toboldygo you did warn me and say it needed persuading but this is ridiculous I feel. - The tender brake screw handle thingy (?) is glued in to the base and doesn't come out without breaking off, aaagghh - Only after all this can you access the decoder socket! - Once a chip is installed you then have the joy of trying to fit the tender top back on, aaagghh again, like trying to squeeze your 36inch waist into 34inch jeans!!! So once again Hornby thanks for making what used to be straight forward into a painful chore. The above was painful enough but after all that I also tried to install a chip into my newly arrived Bude. Same saga except the tender top was even more permanently attached/glued on. I now need to have a lie down and may wait a few more months before I even look at Manston!!! If anyone has tried chipping any of the "new" airsmoothed Bulleids with sockets in the tender I would be interested to hear your stories/opinions. Cheers Glenn PS. Don't get me wrong I love all things Bulleid, am not bashing Hornby and am very happy they have finally got more of these iconic models of an iconic loco available again after too long an absence but, I'm already thinning on top and could do without ripping any more hair out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Thanks a lot Hornby!!! Just over a year later and I have finally got round to fitting a decoder. The rebuilts were always a pain to remove the body and fit a chip without breaking some pipework or small details compared to the airsmoothed which were relatively easy only having to remove one screw at the front. However since Hornby have now put the decoder in the tender it is ridiculously difficult to install a chip. - Remove two screws at back of tender, nothing happens - Try to unplug small wire plug without breaking any wires, only you cant because the wheel keeper piece of plastic doesn't let you - Unscrew two screws of wheel keeper plate, doesn't unclip easily - Unscrew tender coupling screw - Only then can you carefully remove wire plug - Tender is now disconnected totally so you'd think you can remove tender top from base, sadly no. It doesn't come away without a lot of forceful pulling, sweating, praying, trying not to break any ladders, buffers or small details and stress!! Thank you Toboldygo you did warn me and say it needed persuading but this is ridiculous I feel. - The tender brake screw handle thingy (?) is glued in to the base and doesn't come out without breaking off, aaagghh - Only after all this can you access the decoder socket! - Once a chip is installed you then have the joy of trying to fit the tender top back on, aaagghh again, like trying to squeeze your 36inch waist into 34inch jeans!!! So once again Hornby thanks for making what used to be straight forward into a painful chore. The above was painful enough but after all that I also tried to install a chip into my newly arrived Bude. Same saga except the tender top was even more permanently attached/glued on. I now need to have a lie down and may wait a few more months before I even look at Manston!!! If anyone has tried chipping any of the "new" airsmoothed Bulleids with sockets in the tender I would be interested to hear your stories/opinions. Cheers Glenn PS. Don't get me wrong I love all things Bulleid, am not bashing Hornby and am very happy they have finally got more of these iconic models of an iconic loco available again after too long an absence but, I'm already thinning on top and could do without ripping any more hair out. My sincere sympathies. I used to rather enjoy the challenge of building plastic models, way back in the 60s, Kitmaster, Airfix and so on, but since returning to model railways in 2004 I have been less and less keen to meddle with Hornby and perhaps to a slightly lesser degree Bachmann models. Including such as putting crew in diesels. I stopped dismantling tenders when I had to investigate a non-running Britannia, the body did unclip but not before a part broke, possibly my ham-fistedness, but either way, the blanking plug had come loose, that was all. The assembly techniques used in factories must be a very strict sequence, with experience needed, it is insane to expect a buyer to know how to install a chip if the parts are so wedded together, reminds me of repairing cars where to replace a pipe in the air-con you had to dismantle the dashboard, airbag system, steering wheel, and associated parts, ...design clever? NOT. One reason to stay with analogue. Suits me. But I don't want to suggest what others do. My brother has an extensive DCC layout and has a pretty extensive well-equipped workbench, tends to prefer Lenz decoders thus often dismantles engines, he has the skills to fit accessories extremely well, but still sometimes has long hours of wondering how parts might come apart for decoder-fitting, trying this that and the other technique, so it is a common problem for modellers. Had my say now, a quiet cup of tea is a good thing! Again my sympathies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted January 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2016 I think when they redesigned the tender innards on the Bulleid Light Pacifics, they didn't allow any clearance on the new ballast weight - hence it being so hard to get apart. The assembly techniques used in factories must be a very strict sequence, with experience needed, it is insane to expect a buyer to know how to install a chip if the parts are so wedded together, reminds me of repairing cars where to replace a pipe in the air-con you had to dismantle the dashboard, airbag system, steering wheel, and associated parts, ...design clever? NOT. Sounds suspiciously like a Jaguar XJ.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted January 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2016 I've a decoder waiting to go into Manston - I'd read (somewhere on RMWeb) that the instructions for getting the tender body off in the maintenance sheet were contradictory, and that it shed bits like a Heljan loco, but when I saw how fragile the steps were, and how deeply set and invisible the two rear screws were, I must admit I chickened out. I HATE ending up with chewed up screw heads! And why do they make the damn things out of the metallic equivalent of soft cheese? Anyhow, I might use the decoder elsewhere and have a go at fitting one when there's more daylight. Say in six months time.... Cluck! Cluck!!! (@ robmcg & toboldlygo. I once had a car where you had to remove the battery to get at the back of the nearside headlight to replace the bulb...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2016 There's no problem getting the screws out of Exeter's tender (or rebuilt Okehampton's, which I bought at the same time). Dead simple if you use a magnetized screwdriver. As mentioned earlier, there's a handle on a pole in Exeter's tender that is fixed to the chassis which makes it difficult to remove. I managed to turn the body at an angle so that it didn't snap off. I used a Lenz Silver Direct decoder, so no need to worry about a harness. Subsequently I needed to remove the capacitor and this time the handle fell off. The hard part is getting the body to clip back on again with both models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted January 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2016 There's no problem getting the screws out of Exeter's tender (or rebuilt Okehampton's, which I bought at the same time). Dead simple if you use a magnetized screwdriver. As mentioned earlier, there's a handle on a pole in Exeter's tender that is fixed to the chassis which makes it difficult to remove. I managed to turn the body at an angle so that it didn't snap off. I used a Lenz Silver Direct decoder, so no need to worry about a harness. Subsequently I needed to remove the capacitor and this time the handle fell off. The hard part is getting the body to clip back on again with both models. The handle you speak of is only supposed to be glued to the tender body (usually where it goes through the fall plate and a mounting point near the top), that does make it a challenge lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 Hornby have created an interesting combination with Okehampton (rebuilt) and Exeter (air-smoothed) that is not overly compatible if one wishes to run them together. Okehampton emerged from rebuilding just over a week before Exeter entered works to be treated likewise, which would set the period of ones layout rather precisely! However, both locos were allocated to Exmouth Junction before rebuilding and Bricklayers Arms after, so I suspect the only place the two locos, as modelled, are likely to have met would have been in Eastleigh Works yard, one day in mid-October 1957........ John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 I've a decoder waiting to go into Manston (@ robmcg & toboldlygo. I once had a car where you had to remove the battery to get at the back of the nearside headlight to replace the bulb...) The Hornby images of Manston on the box appear to show the old two-pole tender connector, rather than the four wires I assume are now there? I have a friend with an unfashionable middle-aged Ferrari. You have to remove one wheel to change the battery..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 The pictures of Okehampton on the Hornby web-site also show the old two-pole connector, but it does actually have the newer style with decoder in the tender. http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/br-4-6-2-okehampton-west-country-class-late-br.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 The Hornby images of Manston on the box appear to show the old two-pole tender connector, rather than the four wires I assume are now there? I have a friend with an unfashionable middle-aged Ferrari. You have to remove one wheel to change the battery..... Manston has satan's four pin plug/connector (as Rob likes to call them) Okehampton does too I believe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 Manston has satan's four pin plug/connector (as Rob likes to call them) Except that it's semi permanently coupled which is fine if you are dc only and have no wish to achieve closer coupling.This arrangement has saved my soul from damnation due to torrents of bad language and rages of frustration.Rob and I are of one accord on this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 I think I am correct in stating that the new,semi-permanent coupling in the case of Hornby Light Pacific Bulleid rebuilds was first introduced with the release of the sound version 34040 Crewkerne a couple or so years back. In the case of the airsmoothed ( original ) version,was not 34001 Exeter late 2014 ( The Great Rant model,not this current example ) the first in this design mode ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 I think I am correct in stating that the new,semi-permanent coupling in the case of Hornby Light Pacific Bulleid rebuilds was first introduced with the release of the sound version 34040 Crewkerne a couple or so years back. In the case of the airsmoothed ( original ) version,was not 34001 Exeter late 2014 ( The Great Rant model,not this current example ) the first in this design mode ? Yes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 The Hornby images of Manston on the box appear to show the old two-pole tender connector, rather than the four wires I assume are now there? I have a friend with an unfashionable middle-aged Ferrari. You have to remove one wheel to change the battery..... As quoted above, Manston has the unprintably awful 4 pin connector box. You don't even have to have unfashionable Ferraris for headscratching battery locations. A friends Renault Modus had its battery stuffed underneath the windscreen, behind a half bulkhead separating the engine bay from ? The windscreen wiper motor and the battery as far as I could tell, with a handsbreadth gap for access. I assume you had to unbolt the bit of bulkhead for battery removal. Definitely an attempt to make it user unservicable! Like on the Manston instruction sheet, suggesting that you take it in to a service agent to have it upgraded to DCC... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Abel Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Not very gratifying news overall, as I sit here having finally had Hornby figure out my Bude and Okehampton orders and promise they are "now on the way". To date, other than the Bachmann Std. 5MT, which is a bit of a pain in the arse to fit a decoder to due to lots of hanging pipework and gubbins, that gets tangle up when you try and replace the body, I've generally had good success and an easy time of installing decoders, including the last on into my S15. Looks like I'll have a LOT of hours of misery forthcoming when these two arrive <sigh> are there NO "best practices" that make this installation actually reasonable to perform? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 Ian If the decoder socket is now in the tender then that is actually easier than taking the loco body off as you do not have to disconnect the speedo. I always open up the Bulleid tenders as they tend to bow in slightly but noticeably to me, so I add a length of microstrip either side of the tender weight and file them as required once dry. This will push the bottom of the tender body side out enough to make them look a lot better IMHO. Also there is a lot more room in the tender then the earlier loco body locations and those earlier loco to tender wiper pick ups tend to break with use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiebrfan Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Not very gratifying news overall, as I sit here having finally had Hornby figure out my Bude and Okehampton orders and promise they are "now on the way". To date, other than the Bachmann Std. 5MT, which is a bit of a pain in the arse to fit a decoder to due to lots of hanging pipework and gubbins, that gets tangle up when you try and replace the body, I've generally had good success and an easy time of installing decoders, including the last on into my S15. Looks like I'll have a LOT of hours of misery forthcoming when these two arrive <sigh> are there NO "best practices" that make this installation actually reasonable to perform? I agree about the S15, very straight forward. Also the 700 Class, quite easy. T9, Schools Class all a breeze. Can only give advice on fitting a chip to Bude/Manston/Exeter (all new release airsmoothed) and best practice for me in hindsight would be to sit quietly and calmly in a dark room for at least half an hour before attempting it! In all seriousness though good luck and try to remember not to put any pressure on the ladders or tender steps when attempting to remove the top. After having done Exeter I found that with Bude a firm but constant wriggling/rocking type action eventually resulted in the tender top coming off, try to get the back of it loosened first. Regards Glenn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiebrfan Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Ian If the decoder socket is now in the tender then that is actually easier than taking the loco body off as you do not have to disconnect the speedo. I always open up the Bulleid tenders as they tend to bow in slightly but noticeably to me, so I add a length of microstrip either side of the tender weight and file them as required once dry. This will push the bottom of the tender body side out enough to make them look a lot better IMHO. Also there is a lot more room in the tender then the earlier loco body locations and those earlier loco to tender wiper pick ups tend to break with use. Sorry I disagree in a friendly manner. Speedo removal may have been a pain but removing the tender top of this new batch of airsmoothed is a nightmare, now done three. If you try it you'll see what I mean. The weight now seems to be hard up against the sides. Rebuilts I agree not much room in the body but, the airsmoothed always had lots of room. Regards Glenn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 Sorry I disagree in a friendly manner. Speedo removal may have been a pain but removing the tender top of this new batch of airsmoothed is a nightmare, now done three. If you try it you'll see what I mean. The weight now seems to be hard up against the sides. Rebuilts I agree not much room in the body but, the airsmoothed always had lots of room. Regards Glenn Glenn No problem - it might just be personal preference. Yes I do agree that space in unrebuilts loco body isn't really an issue even fitting sound but I do prefer removal of the tender even on the more recent sound fitted versions. Yes some times a bit of glue has got into them but a little prizing with a blade normally does the trick (unless these very latest ones are different again). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The pictures of Okehampton on the Hornby web-site also show the old two-pole connector, but it does actually have the newer style with decoder in the tender. http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/br-4-6-2-okehampton-west-country-class-late-br.html I notice Hornby say 'only 1 left' (at 7.54am NZ time, 7.54pm GMT?) But can they be believed...? And yes toboldlygo I WAS thinking of BLMC-era XJ Jaguars when suggesting that dismantling a dashboard to replace a clip was not dissimilar to some Hornby design features, but then I was once an 'expert' in AP 4-speed Automatic gearboxes for BMC Minis and 1100/1300s, These particular devices from the fertile minds of 1960s engineers broke new ground in weird and wonderful repair sequences, made more wonderful by regular and rarely-recorded design changes, part-swaps, and above all the loving care with which they were assembled by willing and dutiful workers..... A friend was the service manager for BLMC in Christchurch in the 70s, he said that most 1100s and similar were more-or-less taken apart and put together again before sale. As I understand it, both France and Eastern European manufacturers follow similar design principles, students of Bulleid all, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2016 robmcg, on 06 Jan 2016 - 19:06, said: I notice Hornby say 'only 1 left' (at 7.54am NZ time, 7.54pm GMT?) But can they be believed...? Many popular box-shifters seem to be out of stock, but Kernow still have plenty left, although at full RRP (perhaps that's why!). http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/39493/R3203-Hornby-West-Country-Steam-Locomotive-number-34013 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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