Hornby EXETER

[phil gollin]

 

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Can ANYONE explain to me why it is somehow a "good" thing that another batch of Exeters are produced, instead of the same version but with a different name/number.

 

A:  A different name/number would sell to people who want that particular livery/type West Country. But no more than if the model was EXETER.

 

B:  A different name/number would sell to people who got an Exeter, but would like another similar West Country True.

 

Who would prefer a "repeat" Exeter ?  Only a few people who have a particular liking for that Loco (although the group "A" people above would presumably buy some). If you're not bothered what the name is, EXETER is a good as any.

 

So Hornby lose out At LEAST on sales to group "B" above. But they gain sales from all those who wanted an EXETER and were disappointed.

 

A seriously weird commercial decision. Perhaps not, after all !

 

( I just hope all those Exeter fans manage to buy them all up. ) I guess that perhaps you got an EXETER, perhaps at an inflated price, and are feeling a bit sore ?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

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Oh dear, Your answer about losing the sales to "Group B" of "But they gain sales from all those who wanted an EXETER and were disappointed." is meaningless as almost all those people would have bought another name or number.

 

The ONLY people that would buy an Exeter over a same spec but different name/number are people who specifically want Exeter.

 

So your answer re. the commercial sense of the decision "Perhaps not, after all !" is weird, to say the least.

 

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By the way, your weird guess that I might have bought an Exeter at an inflated price is wrong - and merely shows your lack of appreciation of the problem.

 

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I really hope that Hornby make a profit out of this weird decision, however does anyone know how many will be released ?  IF it is a small release then MAYBE those people who have somehow fallen in love with a particular name will buy sufficient  -  IF it is a full scale release then I really doubt that they will sell them all at a reasonable price.

 

Having been messed around by Hornby with their silliness in releasing the original 2-BILs, I can see this ending up with a load of Exeter (mark 2) being sold off cheap (as with the second run/release of the original 2-BILs).  We will see.

 

Commercially a seriously weird decision.

[Combe Martin]

Re post 703 above, I don't think this is a weird decision at all.  I see it as Hornby sticking to their word and doing another run to make up for the previous shortfall.

 

And judging by all the froth that the shortfall generated and all those retailers being upset that their massive pre-orders hadn't been satisfied I got the impression that there was something about Exeter that made it a favourite.  Maybe because it was the doyen of the class ? 

 

Yes, you could get another model and renumber and rename it as Exeter, but I'm always surprised by the number of people that wont even attempt to change a coach number let alone do a cabside and smokebox renumber.

 

And from what I can judge from a couple of experts on here, (because I havn't tried it myself yet) renaming an un-rebuilt Bullied isn't always straightforward because the old plates aren't always easy to get off, possibly leaving a mess that may not be covered up by the new plates if they're shorter, which might mean you need a complete re-spray.  Comments from those Bullied renaming experts on here would be appreciated.  

 

So to summarise, I think a lot of people particularly wanted Exeter.

[Black 5 Bear]

Just going slightly off subject, the other loco that was subject to the "Exeter" problem was Bittern in BR Green with double tender.

Wonder if Hornby intend to re-run this item ????

[Dunsignalling]

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Oh dear, Your answer about losing the sales to "Group B" of "But they gain sales from all those who wanted an EXETER and were disappointed." is meaningless as almost all those people would have bought another name or number.

 

The ONLY people that would buy an Exeter over a same spec but different name/number are people who specifically want Exeter.

 

So your answer re. the commercial sense of the decision "Perhaps not, after all !" is weird, to say the least.

 

---------------

 

By the way, your weird guess that I might have bought an Exeter at an inflated price is wrong - and merely shows your lack of appreciation of the problem.

 

------------------

 

I really hope that Hornby make a profit out of this weird decision, however does anyone know how many will be released ?  IF it is a small release then MAYBE those people who have somehow fallen in love with a particular name will buy sufficient  -  IF it is a full scale release then I really doubt that they will sell them all at a reasonable price.

 

Having been messed around by Hornby with their silliness in releasing the original 2-BILs, I can see this ending up with a load of Exeter (mark 2) being sold off cheap (as with the second run/release of the original 2-BILs).  We will see.

 

Commercially a seriously weird decision.

The 'Exeter' issue was a shortfall, not a Limited Edition run. Surely, all Hornby are doing is addressing that shortfall, potentially satisfying 3,000 or so known would-be buyers.

 

Some of those will have specifically wanted 'Exeter' and others just a West Country with that combination of features. The only people who definitely won't want an 'Exeter' are those who already have one. Mind you, the real hard-line collectors will buy another just to get a different producer code on the box!

 

What's weird about attempting to redress the dissatisfaction caused by the original debacle? Upsetting those of the 290 successful buyers who paid over the odds? Their choice. It would be far weirder if Hornby were to just walk away from completing the run of what was reputed to have been their most pre-ordered model for several years.

 

I have no doubt that further early crest/high tender versions will emerge later for those who want them. 

 

John

[phil gollin]

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A new named/numbered West Country (call it "Fred") would sell to the 3,000 (!) supposed people wanting an Exeter (minus a few Exeter fanatics) AND would pick up those Southern Region fans who have already got Exeter (minus a few who only want one such spec).

 

The number who would by "Fred" outnumber the number who would buy Exeter  -  THAT is why Hornby's decision is commercially weird.

 

Anyway, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.  Let us see how many Exeter Mark 2s Hornby produce and how well they will sell  -  I predict that Hornby will have another 2-BIL fiasco and end up selling them cheap (which will no doubt help the people who re-number their locos).

[John Isherwood]

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Oh dear, Your answer about losing the sales to "Group B" of "But they gain sales from all those who wanted an EXETER and were disappointed." is meaningless as almost all those people would have bought another name or number.

 

The ONLY people that would buy an Exeter over a same spec but different name/number are people who specifically want Exeter.

 

So your answer re. the commercial sense of the decision "Perhaps not, after all !" is weird, to say the least.

 

---------------

 

By the way, your weird guess that I might have bought an Exeter at an inflated price is wrong - and merely shows your lack of appreciation of the problem.

 

------------------

 

I really hope that Hornby make a profit out of this weird decision, however does anyone know how many will be released ?  IF it is a small release then MAYBE those people who have somehow fallen in love with a particular name will buy sufficient  -  IF it is a full scale release then I really doubt that they will sell them all at a reasonable price.

 

Having been messed around by Hornby with their silliness in releasing the original 2-BILs, I can see this ending up with a load of Exeter (mark 2) being sold off cheap (as with the second run/release of the original 2-BILs).  We will see.

 

Commercially a seriously weird decision.

 

Phil,

 

I really can't follow your logic.

 

It would seem to me that there are five categories of potential purchasers for these models :-

 

1] the collectors - who will buy as many releases of the unrebuilt Bulleid light pacific as Hornby can make, as they HAVE to have one of each item released; they will buy this new release of EXETER as it will have small but distinctive differences from the first release, even if only in the packing; they would also buy another version of the unrebuilt Bullied light pacific that hasn't yet been produced by Hornby;

 

2] the number / name changers, who are primarily interested in the particular loco / tender body style combination represented by EXETER; they will buy this new release if it is the configuration that they require; they would also buy another version of the unrebuilt Bulleid light pacific that hasn't yet been produced by Hornby if it was of the required configuration;

 

3] the non-discerning RTR buyer who just wants an unrebuilt Bulleid light pacific; they will buy this new release as EXETER is as good a name as any; they would also buy another version of the unrebuilt Bulleid light pacific that hasn't yet been produced by Hornby;

 

4] the discerning RTR buyer who particularly wants a model of EXETER and has missed out on the first limited release; they will buy this new release of EXETER; they wouldn't buy another version of the unrebuilt Bulleid light pacific that hasn't yet been produced by Hornby;

 

5] the discerning RTR buyer who got a first release EXETER but wants another model of an unrebuilt Bullied light pacific that hasn't so far been released by Hornby, but isn't prepared to change names / numbers; they won't buy this new release of EXETER; they would buy another version of the unrebuilt Bullied light pacific that hasn't yet been produced by Hornby.

 

So - 1], 2], and 3] can be ignored as they will not affect overall sales either way.

 

What it comes down to is whether category 4] will buy more models than category 5], or vice versa.

 

I can't say, and no-one can be certain. Hornby apparently feel that sales to 4] will exceed sales to 5], and there was so much publicity about the shortage that some potential purchasers may well feel that EXETER is now a must-have model - scarcity is a great generator of desire!

 

In conclusion, whatever we think of Hornby's recent business practices, I seriously doubt whether they will have made the decision to re-release EXETER without having very carefully weighed the pros and cons.

 

.... and if they're wrong, and there is a surfeit of cheap EXETERs, I doubt that we'll hear many complaints from modellers !!

 

Is there any reason why you are so anti the re-release of EXETER?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[John Isherwood]

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A new named/numbered West Country (call it "Fred") would sell to the 3,000 (!) supposed people wanting an Exeter (minus a few Exeter fanatics) (How do you know it's a few? They made enough noise about the shortage.) AND would pick up those Southern Region fans who have already got Exeter (minus a few who only want one such spec).

 

The number who would by "Fred" outnumber the number who would buy Exeter (Again - how do you know this?) -  THAT is why Hornby's decision is commercially weird.

 

Anyway, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.  Let us see how many Exeter Mark 2s Hornby produce and how well they will sell  -  I predict that Hornby will have another 2-BIL fiasco and end up selling them cheap (which will no doubt help the people who re-number their locos). (I hope that you're correct, but I seriously doubt it).

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Combe Martin]

There is something else. Soon after the undersupply problem happened, Hornby said they would try to have another run of EXETERS done to make up the shortfall. So they are just sticking to their word.

 

And none of this stops them from still producing another name un-rebuild Bullied when they are ready. That's apart from the others already in the pipeline.

 

And even if this second run of EXETERS does undersell, even if the remainder are only sold at break even, Hornby won't make a loss and will have kept faith with their customers by sticking to their word.

 

Sounds like good public relations to me.

[Steam in the North West]

According to Kernow's facebook another batch will be made. Delivery hoped for the end of the year. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=888791141162434&id=207521425956079

 

Same on Hornby's site now

 

I'm not happy as having one made it a bit special but it's a bit boring now 

[The Stationmaster]

Poor old Hornby - I really feel quite sorry for them over this.  First of all they get hammered for (rather mysteriously?) not making enough now they're a target because they're going to make some more.

[roundhouse]

Poor old Hornby - I really feel quite sorry for them over this. First of all they get hammered for (rather mysteriously?) not making enough now they're a target because they're going to make some more.

Don't worry Mike

I will buy some cut down the tender and renumber them... Not even half way with my collection (OCD rules)!!!!!

[andyman7]

There is something else. Soon after the undersupply problem happened, Hornby said they would try to have another run of EXETERS done to make up the shortfall. So they are just sticking to their word.

 

And none of this stops them from still producing another name un-rebuild Bullied when they are ready. That's apart from the others already in the pipeline.

 

And even if this second run of EXETERS does undersell, even if the remainder are only sold at break even, Hornby won't make a loss and will have kept faith with their customers by sticking to their word.

 

Sounds like good public relations to me.

I am amused that this is announced on Hornby's Facebook page as being due to unprecedented demand - presumably due to demand exceeding the 360 ore so examples that actually got delivered!   I think that's actually 'normal' demand......

[JSpencer]

Hornby got really hammered last year because there was a huge shortage of these models with big customer base suddenly going without as there pre orders could not be fulfilled.

 

Within 2 weeks, they clearly felt they had hit a lot of nerves and promised that they would make another run to fill the gap.

 

Other items, for which they could fulfil pre orders with retailers like Bittern were left at just the numbers that were produced and nothing more, mainly because most or all end customers pre orders had been fulfilled and there no backlash of angry mussed out customers on the forums and Facebook.

 

Naturally it takes time to book a production slot, they have done and honoured their pre Christmas promise to fulfil pre orders for Exeters.

 

It was IMHO, it was the right thing to do.

 

The fact someone stuck one on e bay and someone else paid £300 for it was not Hornby's fault. They have honoured their side of deal.

 

Of course if Hornby could do Bude with Long deflectors and late crest and City of Wells in early crest with golden arrow markings, my wallet would be prised well open....

[Combe Martin]

Re post 715 just above, Hornby are doing your Bude !

[roundhouse]

Re post 715 just above, Hornby are doing your Bude !

I know.

Frustrating after having to search out a cut down tender and repaint the locomotive exchanges version that Hornby did!!

 

Any one for the LMS tender???

[JSpencer]

Re post 715 just above, Hornby are doing your Bude !

Not in BR green late crest ;-))

[robmcg]

With the overwhelming disappointment of not being able to make large profits from the sale of my two Exeters I have decided to console myself by concocting a GWR Saint from photos of a Star and an early Hall.

 

Having already done 34006 Bude albeit in early BR non-trials form....  (who said I never did any modelling?)

 

https://www.facebook.com/brsteamphotos/photos/pb.203786143120392.-2207520000.1426797674./392670380898633/?type=3&theater

 

It's all good and Hornby in my opinion are doing fantastic things now.

[Combe Martin]

Re post 718, Yes !!, just look at Hornbys web site.

[Thom]

Is there any reason why you are so anti the re-release of EXETER?

 

 

Am I to understand phil gollin is against a re-release of EXETER? Would never have guessed by his rants. It is  rather obvious, though, that he is not in business the way Hornby is.

[southernelectric]

Fantastic news...I have pre-ordered 2 of these tonight, but not from Hornby Direct. Ordered them from the retailer I had my original order with but could not be fulfilled last year.

 

Now have to decide what to rename/renumber them as - was lucky to secure 2 from the initial batch, from a retailer not inflated eBay prices. One of those will become 34019 Bideford. Don't know yet what I will do with these two. I was thinking 34046 Braunton for one of them.

 

I for one am pleased Hornby are keeping their promise of doing another run of these.

[brushman47544]

I really am surprised at all the negative reactions to phil gollin's comments. Yes a lot of people were disappointed to miss out, but I really do question how many of them really want "Exeter" and would not accept a different number, if Hornby had gone that way. For me the main issue was that Exeter was the first streamlined WC with high sided tender that Hornby has produced for some years and that's primarily why its scarcity caused such an uproar.

 

However, irrespective of the loco number that is being produced, it is good to see that Hornby has decided to produce more. And I can see why they have gone for more Exeters - they can simply give the factory a copy of the signed off livery drawings for them to use, rather than go through what would almost certainly be a longer process for a different loco number with livery samples etc. being needed before production. Presumably there is no time for this is the extra Exeters are to be made at the same time as Bude, Manston and Winston Churchill.

 

Still find it strange in the anniversary year of the Battle of Britain, and at a time that built WCs are selling for more than current RRP, that they are doing the lesser popular unrebuilt...

 

I'm not sure I agree that the rebuilds are more popular, but whatever, they are producing one this year - rebuilt 34013 Okehampton is also expected around the same time.

[Combe Martin]

I feel the point is that at the time of the EXETER shortfall, Hornby said they'd try to do another run, and now that they've been true to their word and kept faith with their customers, Phil Gollin has described their decision as 'wierd'. And it's not as if this will be the only unrebuild light pacific coming soon, there's Bude, Manston and Winston Churchill too.

[Dunsignalling]

I really am surprised at all the negative reactions to phil gollin's comments. Yes a lot of people were disappointed to miss out, but I really do question how many of them really want "Exeter" and would not accept a different number, if Hornby had gone that way. For me the main issue was that Exeter was the first streamlined WC with high sided tender that Hornby has produced for some years and that's primarily why its scarcity caused such an uproar.

 

However, irrespective of the loco number that is being produced, it is good to see that Hornby has decided to produce more. And I can see why they have gone for more Exeters - they can simply give the factory a copy of the signed off livery drawings for them to use, rather than go through what would almost certainly be a longer process for a different loco number with livery samples etc. being needed before production. Presumably there is no time for this is the extra Exeters are to be made at the same time as Bude, Manston and Winston Churchill.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree that the rebuilds are more popular, but whatever, they are producing one this year - rebuilt 34013 Okehampton is also expected around the same time.

But Hornby haven't "gone for more Exeters", they are just going to complete the batch they originally intended to produce, albeit via a different factory. 

 

Apart from the small number of people who managed to get one of the run aborted by Sanda Kan part way through, there is no way of knowing which of those who originally ordered an Exeter wanted that specific loco and which would be happy to buy a substitute.

 

By altering it, they could have lost as many sales as they might have gained. I agree that by running it "as per" they may also be able to get them made sooner.   

 

I think the higher prices realised for s/h Hornby Rebuilt WCs than their Air-smoothed counterparts is simply a matter of supply and demand. I had quite a job finding a 'Yes Tor' for renaming  last year and ended up paying over £30 more than I had for the same model new. I was intending to use an 'Okehampton' but got fed up waiting for it! 

 

Some of the rarer 'Originals' can fetch well over £100, too but Malachite green (both SR and BR) models seem to be especially plentiful at present with prices generally £20 or so lower than those for Brunswick green ones as a result. 

 

John

[NHY 581]

There are clearly some on this thread for whom their glass is half empty. Hornby are wrong whatever they choose to do. I am not worried either way. I may well buy one to re name.

 

First we are frothing because we can't get enough of them, then we have the prospect of having too many.....come on.

 

There are worse things to get in a lather over......really.

 

Rob

[John M Upton]

So will there be die hard collectors who will insist on having one of each production batch sealed in box on their shelves despite the fact that apart from a different code on the box they will be identical?