Hornby EXETER

[Oldddudders]

One of my pet hates with EBay is the abuse of the word "new". To me new means that the model has been sold by a distributor to a retailer but not to the final end user/customer. I am willing to accept items never unpacked by a retail buyer and then sold as new for the sake of not being wilfully awkward on this but when items which are clearly second hand and which are damaged, played with or which are 20 years old are advertised as new it infuriates me.

Try the collectable end of Scalextric, using that brand name as a generic for 1:32 electric model cars. For example, Fly limited edition sets. These change hands from time to time, but you can rely absolutely on the fact that they've never been near a track, are in pristine presentation boxes. They are pre-owned - but have never been "used". I think ebay now has a category called "New - other" which fits quite well.

[Dunsignalling]

That's weird, 'coz they did 'Manston' many moons ago and I think it was a Club Special then. Perhaps they over-ordered them then and these are the over-run . . ?

 

JE

 

Edited to include a link, which also confirms southernelectric's next posting - the first release (12 years ago now!) had the cut-down tender whilst this new one apparently has raves.

 

All the same, it's odd they should do the same loco again, albeit in a different form, when they've got a choice of 110 prototypes! (I know they did 'Tangmere' in two forms, with cut-down and rave tenders like this one will be).

There is a third option, too.

 

'Manston' had her tender cut down very late (early in 1963) and it received the late crest whilst it still had full raves. 

 

IIRC Hornby have only portrayed this on one model (222 Squadron).

 

John

[Steam in the North West]

I picked mine up yesterday from Transport Models in Preston for £120 and the guy there said it was the only one of 2 they had recieved

[Mike at C&M]

A Hornby trade newsletter received this afternoon states the following:

R3115 – BR 4-6-2 ‘Exeter’ West Country Class - BR Green
We made a mistake and we apologise. To all our trade customers and consumers who wanted an R3115 ‘Exeter’ West Country
Class locomotive we’re sorry that we did not manage to deliver enough, and we’re working hard to get a new production run
completed. Some facts about R3115;
1. We completed the design and specification of this locomotive 10.09.13
2. We placed our purchase order with our nominated vendor 01.10.13
3. We received what we believed initially to be a part shipment 14.11.14 which we flew in to reduce the wait time
4. We completed an allocation as best we could on 360 pieces
5. We were contacted by many trade customers, and consumers about the allocation
With only 360 units making it into the market with an order book well in excess of this we know there are many disappointed
parties out there, and for this we apologise.
We also recognise that the way the item was allocated has caused some upset but the allocation was based on the belief it was
a part shipment.
There are unfortunately other items affected;
   R3099     LNER 4-6-2 'Flying Scotsman' A3 Class
R3129 SR 0-4-4T M7 Class
R3103 BR 4-6-2 'Bittern' A4 Class - Double Tender Special Edition
R4537 SR Unconverted Open 3rd Class Coach
No further manufacture of these items will take place in the current factory.
We didn’t get our communication right and it is frustrating for all the team as we believe we have made real progress through
2014.
We remain absolutely committed to improving our communication and visibility to our customers and consumers.
The root cause of this issue is again a factory BUT we acknowledge we could have handled our communication on this issue
better.
The team are now working to confirm new production slots and we will advise all parties through our normal channels of
progress on this.

[BR(S)]

So they seem to be saying they sold some on their own website as they thought they were getting more.

[Ian Hargrave]

They heard.They listened and acknowledged.That is a step in the right direction.Does it prove that keeping the pressure on works? Hope so.Hats off...for a nice change! Easy for the punters like me to be generous.Now let us all hope that for the sake of the retail trade this is a genuine new beginning and that all are treated on a level playing field.

We all admire and cherish Hornby at its best,whatever brickbats we have cause to throw at it.A nightmare to put behind us and cause to move forward to better quality delivered within a practical time scale in balanced quantities. It's oft quoted that learning occurs after mistakes and the first step is to admit you've made them. Hornby appear to have responded handsomely.Good.

[Mike at C&M]

After Christmas comes the ordering season for the 2015 range for we traders. That will be the acid test of whether we can put the worst behind us. I sincerely hope so

[brushman47544]

One thing this tale does confirm is the need for people on the ground in China looking after your interests - and hopefully watching close enough to be able to advise what and how many of a product is on the way.

[The Stationmaster]

Good of them to put out a statement and apologise.  More interesting to know where these things have been since the factory made them if other information is to be believed.

 

But the important thing is that Hornby have learnt a lesson for the future (not that one hopes there will be any more problems like this) and that is to take care in what they say to their customers and consumers.

[Forester]

Only words.

 

How about compensation? Vouchers for those who missed out? Extra discounts for retailers who have disappointed customers to cope with?

 

Then we could be sure they listened.

 

 

Thought not.

[Chris Chewter]

I notice the statement indicates that they are trying to commission another production run of Exeter, but does not indicate whether they are doing another production run of the other affected items listed. Any ideas?

[Ian Abel]

Only words.

 

How about compensation? Vouchers for those who missed out? Extra discounts for retailers who have disappointed customers to cope with?

 

Then we could be sure they listened.

 

 

Thought not.

If they are attempting to produce more, is it not therefore likely that those of us "without" have actually "missed out" but are in line awaiting the next batch?

 

I personally am considering THAT to be the case for me, since;

i) I'm had no communications from Hattons about my pre-order

ii) The pre-order is still "active" on my account listing

iii) They still show the statement "Due into stock on or after Monday 22nd December 2014" when you search for Exeter

 

I'm glad and thankful that Hornby have acknowledged the mistakes/errors, and from the items above, AND the communication they sent (thanks for posting it C&M Models), I'm going to assume (until I hear to the contrary) that I still might receive my pre-order. Might be some time though, but I'll wait...

[Legend]

Good they acknowledged the issue. I appreciate they maybe thought they would have more to sell, but to me I still don't understand why some made it onto their direct selling channel. Outstanding orders should always be satisfied first

[bennyboy]

Good they acknowledged the issue. I appreciate they maybe thought they would have more to sell, but to me I still don't understand why some made it onto their direct selling channel. Outstanding orders should always be satisfied first

 

Yeah, their actions still suggest that they think that the stock levels for their own website is more important than that of their dealers (and customers who pre-order!).

[JSpencer]

Only words.

 

How about compensation? Vouchers for those who missed out? Extra discounts for retailers who have disappointed customers to cope with?

 

Then we could be sure they listened.

 

 

Thought not.

In fairness I suspect Hornby lost out heavily on this too. I mean, if they had got a 1000 of them, everyone would have been winners and none of this mis-communication would have happened.

Every company has a Titanic episode sooner or later. No person or process is infallible.

[robmcg]

I notice the statement indicates that they are trying to commission another production run of Exeter, but does not indicate whether they are doing another production run of the other affected items listed. Any ideas?

Another production surely cannot be by Sanda Kan, so would require tooling to be up and running in another factory.

 

This has been done with A4s but not so far as I am aware with any Bulleid Pacifics. It might be wishful thinking that perhaps more Exeters exist maybe, somewhere. As to future models of Bulleid Light Pacifics, it would possibly be REF who could do it, but there are no current commitments to do this in an REF or other non-SK factory so far as I know. As other have commented the shifting of tools and dies from one factory to another is not a simple matter and my feeling is that in this case it isn't going to happen.

 

Good of the Hornby rep to apologise, all the same.

 

edit; to say they expected more is a convenient way of excusing their direct selling. And that they are trying to do another production run, yes? in which factory?

[JSpencer]

Good they acknowledged the issue. I appreciate they maybe thought they would have more to sell, but to me I still don't understand why some made it onto their direct selling channel. Outstanding orders should always be satisfied first

Doubtless this is becoming a big *pain point* session in the board room right now. Exeter brought the problem to the top big time, but if they checked hard enough, they will see such cases have occurred in the past.

This will lead to a rethink and maybe policy changes.

 

However one should be careful here. Too strict policies can do more damage than good. Intelligent people will learn from mistakes and do not need strict policies to control them. If you want them to bring value, they need a fair degree of freedom.( they also need to look for feedback!)

[JSpencer]

Another production surely cannot be by Sanda Kan, so would require tooling to be up and running in another factory.This has been done with A4s but not so far as I am aware with any Bulleid Pacifics. It might be wishful thinking that perhaps more Exeters exist maybe, somewhere. As to future models of Bulleid Light Pacifics, it would possibly be REF who could do it, but there are no current commitments to do this in an REF or other non-SK factory so far as I know. As other have commented the shifting of tools and dies from one factory to another is not a simple matter and my feeling is that in this case it isn't going to happen.Good of the Hornby rep to apologise, all the same.edit; to say they expected more is a convenient way of excusing their direct selling. And that they are trying to do another production run, yes? in which factory?

It should be noted that a Southern M7 is in the list of shortened production runs, yet the new NRM M7 came out today. Be interesting to see if this is Sanda Kan or other. If Other, the tooling soon got up and running quickly.

[Combe Martin]

I would have thought that if the A4 (using Sanda Kan tooling) can be produced in one of the new factories, then Sanda Kan tools for a Bullied would also fit the new factory's machines ? 

[miles73128]

A Hornby trade newsletter received this afternoon states the following:

R3115 – BR 4-6-2 ‘Exeter’ West Country Class - BR Green

We made a mistake and we apologise. To all our trade customers and consumers who wanted an R3115 ‘Exeter’ West Country

Class locomotive we’re sorry that we did not manage to deliver enough, and we’re working hard to get a new production run

completed. Some facts about R3115;

1. We completed the design and specification of this locomotive 10.09.13

2. We placed our purchase order with our nominated vendor 01.10.13

3. We received what we believed initially to be a part shipment 14.11.14 which we flew in to reduce the wait time

4. We completed an allocation as best we could on 360 pieces

5. We were contacted by many trade customers, and consumers about the allocation

With only 360 units making it into the market with an order book well in excess of this we know there are many disappointed

parties out there, and for this we apologise.

We also recognise that the way the item was allocated has caused some upset but the allocation was based on the belief it was

a part shipment.

There are unfortunately other items affected;

R3099 LNER 4-6-2 'Flying Scotsman' A3 Class

R3129 SR 0-4-4T M7 Class

R3103 BR 4-6-2 'Bittern' A4 Class - Double Tender Special Edition

R4537 SR Unconverted Open 3rd Class Coach

No further manufacture of these items will take place in the current factory.

We didn’t get our communication right and it is frustrating for all the team as we believe we have made real progress through

2014.

We remain absolutely committed to improving our communication and visibility to our customers and consumers.

The root cause of this issue is again a factory BUT we acknowledge we could have handled our communication on this issue

better.

The team are now working to confirm new production slots and we will advise all parties through our normal channels of

progress on this.

Well 34070 Manston isn't looking likely for Feb then!

[robmcg]

It should be noted that a Southern M7 is in the list of shortened production runs, yet the new NRM M7 came out today. Be interesting to see if this is Sanda Kan or other. If Other, the tooling soon got up and running quickly.

The NRM 'Limited Edition' M7 released yesterday/today can be seen on Rails website, although they have it only for pre-order, Hattons have 'more than ten in stock'. It is LSWR and it would be indeed interesting if it was REF or other non-SK manufacture, the paint looks pretty good to me, shades of the Bachmann C-class!

[RFS]

Hornby's website has R3203 34013 Okehampton down for delivery on 25th Feb 2015.  Presumably not made by SK?   Perhaps a rebuilt 34001 Exeter might be a possibility?

[AndrewC]

I would have thought that if the A4 (using Sanda Kan tooling) can be produced in one of the new factories, then Sanda Kan tools for a Bullied would also fit the new factory's machines ?

 

all of this depends on the individual machine. It may well be the A4 tooling is compatible with one or more machines in another factory but the Bullied being one of Sanda Klan's earliest releases may not be compatible. Very likely the Bullied tooling is for an older model of injection machine. No doubt there are/were multiple models and vintages of IM machines at Sanda Kan. All this is educated supposition of course.

[Andy Hayter]

I would have thought that if the A4 (using Sanda Kan tooling) can be produced in one of the new factories, then Sanda Kan tools for a Bullied would also fit the new factory's machines ? 

 

As Andrew C above says, not necessarily so.  However the fact that Hornby have said that they hope to be able to schedule a run to make good the shortfalls, suggests that either the moulds can be used elsewhere, or that they have already re-tooled for this model - maybe for the CC model that someone mentioned earlier.  It may be a combination of the two.   A model is made up of a number of moulds.  They do not necessarily run on the same machines and it may be that eight out of nine are compatible and one has to be re-tooled.  At its simplest if there are cast metal parts, the moulds for this will certainly not run on the plastic injection moulding machines - and vice versa.  In practice it can be much more complicated than that even in the plastics area with bodies being made on machines that handle rigid plastics, while things like brake rodding use a more flexible plastic and need a separate mould and probably a different machine. 

[ruggedpeak]

Only words.

 

How about compensation? Vouchers for those who missed out? Extra discounts for retailers who have disappointed customers to cope with?

 

Then we could be sure they listened.

 

 

Thought not.

 

Seriously?

 

Good they acknowledged the issue. I appreciate they maybe thought they would have more to sell, but to me I still don't understand why some made it onto their direct selling channel. Outstanding orders should always be satisfied first

 

I am sympathetic to retailers but having experienced first hand the behaviour of major disties and manufacturers towards indie retail in a totally unrelated sector (and destroyed many of them) all I can say is if this is the worst you've experienced (and Hornby have explained and apologised quickly) you are very, very lucky. I was in a sector where retailers had to buy stock from their local Argos, Tesco or other large retailers to stock their own stores as 1) it was cheaper than disties were charging them and 2) disties sent all the stock to the large firms for all the major releases.

 

As for channels, the point was made earlier about payment and liquidity. Take a look at their half year results - they have £22m of short term credit and overdraft. It appears they did not deliberately choose direct over retailers, but even if they did, any business' first requirement is to survive. I believe they were (or are) running an overdraft of £6m based on published info, which can be called in at any moment (and banks aren't renowned for helping businesses stay afloat) so if it were me I'd be shifting anything I could get at the highest price and immediate payment just to get the company back on an even keel. Long term goodwill isn't much use if you've gone bust as the bank called in its loans and overdraft. And UK railway modelling without Hornby would be a very dark place. If Hornby goes then the retailers go with them - name another railway modelling brand that is universally known to the general public and attracts new entrants? Bachmann, Dapol, DJM?

 

Kernow, Hattons etc are getting their own models made to try and overcome these and other issues. If you have the model Amazon can't sell it and undercut you and you control the supply. They are seeing the problems not just in modelling but across many sectors and know they need to diversify beyond reselling other people's product.