Hornby EXETER

[southernelectric]

Like from the Customs declaration?

 

Yeah I guess so...

[Ian Hargrave]

Perhaps we shouldn't get too worked up - the 'Exeter' that 3rd Rail Exile got from Liverpool this morning still has the horrendous over-scale lining that all but one run of these magnificent models have had! I had hoped that they would get this detail right after all this time, it quite spoils the look of the thing IMHO. 

 

JE

 

So which one was that,then!

[toboldlygo]

Perhaps we shouldn't get too worked up - the 'Exeter' that 3rd Rail Exile got from Liverpool this morning still has the horrendous over-scale lining that all but one run of these magnificent models have had! I had hoped that they would get this detail right after all this time, it quite spoils the look of the thing IMHO. 

 

JE 

 

Agreed the lining is over-scale (just like that found on R2316 & R2388) The ladders on the tender are wrong, they should be the SR type. Not sure about the water treatment symbol either.

[robmcg]

Once again I must thank the users of RM Web for bringing this to my attention. I have just checked our Hornby back orders and discovered that nearly all of our pre-ordered locos have disappeared from my list. All of the TTS Sounds, Liverpool, Okehampton are just a few from memory. The Pendolino set, has now got no delivery date on the trade website and we were hoping it would be here for Christmas. On Hornby's own website it is showing as due in Q1 2015.I suggest other Retailers check their back orders.

 

Those Retailers like ourselves who agreed to sign Hornby's draconian terms and conditions earlier this year must be having second thoughts.

 

This suggests that Hornby are going to do their own direct sales and make no promises to other sellers. As well as being understandably vague about delivery dates.

 

This avoids at least the bad faith of promising delivery and not fulfilling it in a timely manner, which has been their recent form for some models.

[robmcg]

Funny you should say that...

 

DSCF0455mod.jpg

 

DSCF0448mod.jpg

 

Straight out of the box, as delivered this morning from Liverpool...

 

Thanks for the photos, looks to me like the 1955-1957 narrow cab and correct 4,500 gal tender. The rear ladders look ok to me. My Irwell book says 34001 kept the original cab style until 1955. Hard to judge the lining until I see one in the flesh so to speak.

[andyman7]

The next production of the unrebuilt WC/BoB will have to come from one of the 'new' suppliers such as Refined Industries, so maybe at least some of the longstanding minor issues such as lining and ladders can be tackled - and a hope that a new run is a priority!

[raymw]

A mythical situation. (with back of envelope sums)

 

Let's say I have commissioned a widget to be made - I've asked for 1000, and they will retail at £100.00 each.

I have to prepare drawings, get moulds made, pay and reserve machine time, etc. Say that costs £30,000.00 which I have to pay 'up front'

I can sell the items via resellers, and give them a discount of say 15% i.e. they pay me £85.00 per widget.

Materials, finishing, packaging per item costs, say, £15.00

So, I get my 1000 items, worth £100,000.00

I have spent £30,000 up front and £15,000 for the items = £45,000 in total. I sell only to the resellers for an income of £85,000.00
and I make £40,000.00 and everybody is happy.


Now, instead of getting the 1000, I only get 300 items. Why that is, I've no idea, my supplier had problems and lost my moulds/whatever.

I may be able to chase up on that, but unlikely I'll get much of a result. I've paid them for the 300 but I'll never get back the cost of the tooling.

I have spent £30,000 up front and £4,500 for the items, that's £34,500 in total. If I sell the 300 to my resellers for an income of £25,500
I lose £9,500.00 . 30% of the resellers are happy and 30% of their customers are happy, and I, having done all the work, am not at all
happy and have lost nearly ten grand. I'm going to be answering to irate resellers and customers.

If I can sell them without discount, via the web, then I get £30,000.00 and only lose £4,500.00. All my resellers will be unhappy,
but 30% of customers will still be happy (maybe not the same 30% as ordered via the resellers), and I've reduced my losses by over 50%.

I'm still going to be answering to irate resellers and customers, but it will be a consistent answer - nobody got them - as opposed to explaining why Harry got some, and Fred got less.

The resellers have not lost financially to any great extent, they just have lost the opportunity to make some profit.

Now the fun begins. The remaining 700 items turn up. Chance of me making the dealers 70% happy, or extra profit to me of £10,500 (above what I'd get trying to sell to the resellers, who now don't like me much anyway.)

Well, the resellers are already pretty unhappy, some will no longer be around, so I don't think it will make much difference to them, and an extra £10,500 sounds alright to me. The money I save by not dealing with resellers, I can put to developing my web sales and put in a decent customer (end-user) service, if I think it's needed.  I may keep one or two box shifters, to shift my old stock, if I need the shelf space.

 

Purely mythical, of course, but because none of the items went to the resellers, I made an extra £15,000.00.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

[toboldlygo]

Thanks for the photos, looks to me like the 1955-1957 narrow cab and correct 4,500 gal tender. The rear ladders look ok to me. My Irwell book says 34001 kept the original cab style until 1955. Hard to judge the lining until I see one in the flesh so to speak.

 

The ladders are wrong, this picture confirms it (and narrows down the date some what) http://www.5929.co.uk/RailwaysGB1955to1985Gallery11/to1959britishrailwaysinblackwhite4.html

[Andy Hayter]

Like from the Customs declaration?

Quite possibly not. 

 

The simplest requirement would be

toys   1500 units    sorry 500 units

Value

 

and the appropriate HS code for toys.

 

Edited to add. the HS code identifies for customs what type of goods are being shipped and from that they can determine what taxes are due - for toys this is zero.

[southernelectric]

Quite possibly not. 

 

The simplest requirement would be

toys   1500 units    sorry 500 units

Value

 

and the appropriate HS code for toys.

 

Edited to add. the HS code identifies for customs what type of goods are being shipped and from that they can determine what taxes are due - for toys this is zero.

 

Even if not from a customs declaration surely someone at Hornby was aware this shipment was coming?

 

[Edited to add : AND what was in it!]

[darren01]

Hi 

I feel the same will happen with the 700 and other models,had an email from Hornby today about the 700,saying ; This update means that we are now able to accept orders because this item is either back in stock or is now available for Pre-Order. Please note that demand may be high so we recommend you place your order soon to avoid disappointment. Thank you for your interest.

The thing is i have this on order with my local shop (2x 700) thing is do i cancel my order at the shop and get it from Hornby?, or stick with the shop and hope he get all his order in.(IE not get one at all) 

​I don't want to by it on line but want to support my shop!, Poor chap has had a hard year as it is, no Exeter's  in and so none of his customers got any of there models.

This is unfair to the shops and us. it like "Right if you don't get if through us,you may not get one at all,and your have to wait a few years for more and by then your be paying even more for it as well. 

Darren

Ps Had this email from Hornby just come in ; 

The doors have just opened to the Warley National Model Railway Exhibition, but if you’re not lucky enough to be there in person, we have some exclusive Hornby news from this year’s show.

 

Today we are revealing some key releases from the forthcoming Hornby 2015 range, plus unveiling some new, cutting-edge technology that has been used in the creation of key models for next year.

 

 

 

You can now exclusively pre-order a selection of these 2015 items direct from the website.

 

Dose the above mean these models will only be available direct only from there website?

 

BR 4-4-2T '30582' Adams Radial BR (Late)

R3334

 

BR 4-6-0 'King Richard II' 6000 Class, BR (Early) with TSS Sound
R3370TTS

£179.99

[Hilux5972]

I have just preordered the 2 BR Kings via Hattons so no I don't expect so. Just bad wording on Hornbys behalf I expect

[Dunsignalling]

 

Hi 

I feel the same will happen with the 700 and other models,had an email from Hornby today about the 700,saying ; This update means that we are now able to accept orders because this item is either back in stock or is now available for Pre-Order. Please note that demand may be high so we recommend you place your order soon to avoid disappointment. Thank you for your interest.

The thing is i have this on order with my local shop (2x 700) thing is do i cancel my order at the shop and get it from Hornby?, or stick with the shop and hope he get all his order in.(IE not get one at all) 

​I don't want to by it on line but want to support my shop!, Poor chap has had a hard year as it is, no Exeter's  in and so none of his customers got any of there models.

This is unfair to the shops and us. it like "Right if you don't get if through us,you may not get one at all,and your have to wait a few years for more and by then your be paying even more for it as well. 

Darren

Ps Had this email from Hornby just come in ; 

The doors have just opened to the Warley National Model Railway Exhibition, but if you’re not lucky enough to be there in person, we have some exclusive Hornby news from this year’s show.

 

Today we are revealing some key releases from the forthcoming Hornby 2015 range, plus unveiling some new, cutting-edge technology that has been used in the creation of key models for next year.

 

 

 

You can now exclusively pre-order a selection of these 2015 items direct from the website.

 

Dose the above mean these models will only be available direct only from there website?

 

BR 4-4-2T '30582' Adams Radial BR (Late)

R3334

 

BR 4-6-0 'King Richard II' 6000 Class, BR (Early) with TSS Sound

R3370TTS

£179.99

 

Order two from Hornby as well.

 

If you are near the top of your local dealer's order list and you get them too, you can either agree that he can sell yours to someone who would otherwise be disappointed or flog them for a profit on ebay.

 

It might also mess with Hornby's calculation of demand making them increase the quantities of future releases.

 

John

[DoverPriory]

Olivias seem to have some!!

[Guest Belgian]

So which one was that,then!

I think it was 'Wilton' or 'Tanfmere' (high tender raves), but haven't got one any more so can't check.

 

JE

[AndrewC]

Not to defend anyone in this debacle, but for those who wonder how Hornby didn't know in advance. It's very possible that the customs declaration, shipping manifest, invoice, etal was for the full amount ordered. Only upon opening the container was the true number of items revealed. I've seen this first hand a few years back with an order of server rack mounts. We bought 500 from the manufacturer in China. All the customs paperwork and billing was for the full amount. My employer had even paid the import duties on the full amount prior to the consignment being released by HMRC. What actually arrived were 300 racks. Took nearly 2 years to recover the costs from the manufacturer. Conjecture was the missing 200 were scooped out of the consignment at the last minute and sold on the black market. Nobody knows for sure.

 

Its very doubtful we'll know the truth behind the shortfall. SK shortened the run to open up the manufacturing slot for something more profitable. SK ran into a higher number of rejects than normal and couldn't fill the numbers within the slot. Stolen stock. Damaged tooling. Fraud. Lack of staff as they all jumped ship before the factory closed. The list of possibilities goes on.

 

Hornby could have and should have done much better in handling the shortfall. No doubt about that.

[leavesontheline]

Funny you should say that...

 

DSCF0455mod.jpg

 

DSCF0448mod.jpg

 

Straight out of the box, as delivered this morning from Liverpool...

Looks very nice to me! Just out of interest, what sort of packaging did it come in? Is it the old one piece polystyrene foam effort that most of these models came in or is it 'new' style clear plastic Bachmann style?

[Oldddudders]

Olivias seem to have some!!

At an eye-watering price.....

[BR_Blue_1986]

Olivia's seem quick to cash in!

[Deltic]

If you want an idea where product has been made, look for a code SK = Sanda Kan (Exeter & recent double tender Bittern) or  REF = one of their other factories (2HAL).  It could be the case that a factory will undertake a production run of a body style, which may equate to several up coming releases - many years ago Dapol released a Factory shot showing hundreds of bare Class 56 bodies awaiting a decision of what livery finish to release. The factory will then pull down from stock a number to undertake a version run, so in the case of Exeter SK could have used up all the stock (circa 290) and not be able to obtain any more without a further production batch run of bare bodies. Not helpful to retailers or customers whom could have placed an order anywhere from 2012 when the Exeter was first announced.

[southernelectric]

At an eye-watering price.....

 

Shocking. £180 asking price for the model as-is, no DCC or sound options.

 

So I wonder how come they managed to get them and other retailers have not been able to?

[southernelectric]

Hornby could have and should have done much better in handling the shortfall. No doubt about that.

 

Hence why I think the management at Margate need to put out a statement of some kind, even if an interim one to say they are looking into the situation and more information will be provided once they have investigated fully to determine what and why this happened. Leaving it to their reps to pass on the bad news to retailers, and then leaving them to pass it on their customers, is not the way this should be handled (IMHO of course). 

 

Some kind of statement would be better than nothing at this stage, would it not? 

[southernelectric]

Interesting discussion about this over on the Hornby forums, one poster seems to believe that more are on their way and that Hornby were not actually expecting any Exeter models in the shipment that arrived last week. Not sure what his/her sources are though...

 

http://www.Hornby.com/forum/post/view/topic_id/7798/?p=1

[raymw]

Retail Price maintenance does not exist. Olivia, any one, can price most goods at whatever they like in the UK. You don't have to buy, but someone else may.

[Free At Last]

Retail Price maintenance does not exist. Olivia, any one, can price most goods at whatever they like in the UK. You don't have to buy, but someone else may.

 

I agree, just don't buy anything from these sellers.