Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx

[D9020 Nimbus]

Hattons own the tooling, so I'd guess it depends on their relationship with Bachmann :-;

 

[Paul_sterling]

27 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Hattons own the tooling, so I'd guess it depends on their relationship with Bachmann :-;

 

Probably not going to turn up in an efe box then.......

[melmerby]

37 minutes ago, Paul_sterling said:

Probably not going to turn up in an efe box then.......

The Kernow stuff did.

[Hilux5972]

4 hours ago, melmerby said:

The Kernow stuff did.

Yes but Kernow has a previous manufacturing relationship with Bachmann don’t they?

[Pteremy]

Things have moved on. With Hornby focussed on TT120 a revised (i.e. shortcomings fixed) EFE branded 14xx might be a way for Bachmann to reinstate a more positive business relationship with Hattons? Maybe the 66 could also feature somehow? Then again maybe Rapido have designs on the 14xx.

[Paul_sterling]

10 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

Things have moved on. With Hornby focussed on TT120 a revised (i.e. shortcomings fixed) EFE branded 14xx might be a way for Bachmann to reinstate a more positive business relationship with Hattons? Maybe the 66 could also feature somehow? Then again maybe Rapido have designs on the 14xx.

 

Rapido would be a logical home if hattons don't intend to make another run.

 

With everything else rapido are doing in respect of the titfield thunderbolt it would make sense.

 

Fingers crossed. 

[JSpencer]

On 15/02/2023 at 10:19, Pteremy said:

Things have moved on. With Hornby focussed on TT120 a revised (i.e. shortcomings fixed) EFE branded 14xx might be a way for Bachmann to reinstate a more positive business relationship with Hattons? Maybe the 66 could also feature somehow? Then again maybe Rapido have designs on the 14xx.

 

I wonder if the 66 and the 14XX are made at the same factory? Anyway we know where the 66 just went...

As for the 14xx appearing in EFE, there seems to be 2 possible ways it could appear now. Either re-using Hattons tooling in a great new partnership between them or as new tooling developed apart.

I would still prefer Rapido or Accurascale tooled up from scratch though.

[woodenhead]

8 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

I wonder if the 66 and the 14XX are made at the same factory? Anyway we know where the 66 just went...

As for the 14xx appearing in EFE, there seems to be 2 possible ways it could appear now. Either re-using Hattons tooling in a great new partnership between them or as new tooling developed apart.

I would still prefer Rapido or Accurascale tooled up from scratch though.

The 14xx was designed by DJM, I expect it was built at one of 'his' factories, what happened after DJM went bump we don't know.  This was the same time as DJM with Hattons was proposing an OO King that was sunk immediately by Hornby announcing theirs and the N version was proposed by DJM himself and got to a 3D print.

 

I think it is more likely that at 14XX will be coming from Rapido than anybody else because there is a link with Titfield, the DJM was not perfect either - people didn't like how it worked and it was missing the bottom of the firebox.

[Paul_sterling]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

The 14xx was designed by DJM, I expect it was built at one of 'his' factories, what happened after DJM went bump we don't know.  This was the same time as DJM with Hattons was proposing an OO King that was sunk immediately by Hornby announcing theirs and the N version was proposed by DJM himself and got to a 3D print.

 

I think it is more likely that at 14XX will be coming from Rapido than anybody else because there is a link with Titfield, the DJM was not perfect either - people didn't like how it worked and it was missing the bottom of the firebox.

Thankfully one of the manfacturers once said that chassis work is a relatively small part of the cost (or that sheel tooling dwarfs everything else). So it's plausible to retool the chassis of the hattons 14xx for a small proportion of the cost of a new loco design. 

[JSpencer]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

The 14xx was designed by DJM, I expect it was built at one of 'his' factories, what happened after DJM went bump we don't know.  This was the same time as DJM with Hattons was proposing an OO King that was sunk immediately by Hornby announcing theirs and the N version was proposed by DJM himself and got to a 3D print.

 

I think it is more likely that at 14XX will be coming from Rapido than anybody else because there is a link with Titfield, the DJM was not perfect either - people didn't like how it worked and it was missing the bottom of the firebox.

The chassis design is exactly the same as the austerity, well tank and O2. No doubt over the factory  being the same.

 

[SDJR7F88]

Just purchases one of these early today for a very reasonable price, and a good runner too (for now).

 

The model is an example fitted with a top feed, but the intention is to convert this to one without. This (along with the pipework) appears to be separately fitted parts. Is this the case? If so how easy are they to remove?

 

Any information before I attempt this would be much appreciated!!! 

Edited December 5, 2023 by SDJR7F88

[adb968008]

On 24/02/2023 at 14:33, woodenhead said:

The 14xx was designed by DJM, I expect it was built at one of 'his' factories, what happened after DJM went bump we don't know.  This was the same time as DJM with Hattons was proposing an OO King that was sunk immediately by Hornby announcing theirs and the N version was proposed by DJM himself and got to a 3D print.

 

I think it is more likely that at 14XX will be coming from Rapido than anybody else because there is a link with Titfield, the DJM was not perfect either - people didn't like how it worked and it was missing the bottom of the firebox.

I dunno, Kernow picked up some DJ toolings. I’m not sure where that puts Hattons in this, but the EFE 143/144 look very similar to the Realtrack one, I wouldnt therefore discount an EFE 14xx at some point. The body of the 14xx was pretty good.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by adb968008

[melmerby]

54 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I dunno, Kernow picked up some DJ toolings. I’m not sure where that puts Hattons in this, but the EFE 143/144 look very similar to the Realtrack one, I wouldnt therefore discount an EFE 14xx at some point. The body of the 14xx was pretty good.

 

 

EFE seems to be re-introducing ex-DJ Models designs such as the J94 (or in the case of the 'N' Class 17 finishing it with Kernow)

Maybe we will get EFE/Hattons 48XXs some time in the future with a decent chassis?

 

EFE seems to be an arm's length company as part of Bachmann with items not always designed in house and not always manufactured by Kader group companies.

It seems to be a way of getting items which would've normally sunk without trace after the initial production back into mainstream. e.g. the Kernow  O2 & Gate stock

 

 

[SDJR7F88]

Any information on how to remove the top feed? 

[Graham_Muz]

On 04/12/2023 at 23:10, melmerby said:

EFE seems to be re-introducing ex-DJ Models designs such as the J94 (or in the case of the 'N' Class 17 finishing it with Kernow)

Maybe we will get EFE/Hattons 48XXs some time in the future with a decent chassis?

 

EFE seems to be an arm's length company as part of Bachmann with items not always designed in house and not always manufactured by Kader group companies.

It seems to be a way of getting items which would've normally sunk without trace after the initial production back into mainstream. e.g. the Kernow  O2 & Gate stock

 

 

 

Just to correct the record and some misconceptions...

 

EFE Rail is not an "arm's length company" but simply a brand with Bachman Europe's portfolio.  It is a channel for the distribution of products designed, produced and managed through 3rd parties and not in house and via Kader. 

 

As such it may utilise existing 3rd party tooling (by the way, and again to put the record straight, the KMRC Adams O2 and Gate stock did not sink "without trace after the initial production" as they had already had multiple production runs under the KMRC brand) or new tooling as we have already seen with the LSWR Cross Country sets, LSWR Covered vans and the SR Boosters.

Whilst some of the releases have utilised tooling still owned by factories from now defunct business, in the case of the 14xx this tooling is as already stated in previous posts owned by Hattons and therefore it is their decision on any future use. 

[Pmorgancym]

I woukd have thought if Rapido were going to do the 14xx they would have done it in tandem with Lion, the possibilities of a 'rich uncle' Titfield pack..

[Hilux5972]

On 10/12/2023 at 21:20, Pmorgancym said:

I woukd have thought if Rapido were going to do the 14xx they would have done it in tandem with Lion, the possibilities of a 'rich uncle' Titfield pack..

Well Accurascale took over Hattons 66. Perhaps another collab may happen. As far as I can remember without trawling through this entire topic, wasn’t it mainly issues with the mechanism? Body was pretty good. 

[Fair Oak Junction]

Yes, from what I remember the mechanisms were very hit and miss. My two run sweet as anything out of the box, but others had issues.
The body is generally very good but the lack of a seam between the dome and boiler annoys some people.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Fair Oak Junction

[chuffinghell]

A 14xx and Autocoach pack would be a winner

[BedeHistory731]

On 12/12/2023 at 14:11, chuffinghell said:

A 14xx and Autocoach pack would be a winner

 

Watch somebody do an R-T-R 517 first.

[Fair Oak Junction]

Just now, BedeHistory731 said:

 

Watch somebody do an R-T-R 517 first.

 

Well, to be fair that would be really nice to see happen! 😄

[Edwardian]

3 hours ago, BedeHistory731 said:

 

Watch somebody do an R-T-R 517 first.

 

If only!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Another consideration for the production of a tractively competent 0-4-2T is what Bachmann have successfully demonstrated on their 0-4-4T by use of a superior constructional plan.

 

In broad outline the bodywork over the coupled wheelbase is diecast, body work to the rear of this is moulded in plastic; the gear box is on the trailing coupled axle and a lightweight and compact motor is in the firebox end  of the boiler. Lightweight tackle such as the decoder scoket location is to the rear of the coupled wheelbase. End result, the centre of balance of the complete model is within the coupled wheelbase, and stable traction results, with no need for traction tyres.

 

I would suggest that a better result is available by dropping the previous RTR models and starting afresh.

[NHY 581]

9 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I would suggest that a better result is available by dropping the previous RTR models and starting afresh.

 

From a great height.............

 

Rob

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Another consideration for the production of a tractively competent 0-4-2T is what Bachmann have successfully demonstrated on their 0-4-4T by use of a superior constructional plan.

 

In broad outline the bodywork over the coupled wheelbase is diecast, body work to the rear of this is moulded in plastic; the gear box is on the trailing coupled axle and a lightweight and compact motor is in the firebox end  of the boiler. Lightweight tackle such as the decoder scoket location is to the rear of the coupled wheelbase. End result, the centre of balance of the complete model is within the coupled wheelbase, and stable traction results, with no need for traction tyres.

 

I would suggest that a better result is available by dropping the previous RTR models and starting afresh.

 

Or just dropping the ash in the case of this one!