Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx

[NHY 581]

Well, seconds or otherwise, like other members on here, I will never knowingly purchase a loco in which DJM have been involved.

 

I feel sorry for the retailers who have commisioned steam locos only for their staff to have deal with the fall out from poor performing, overly complicated models that simply do not deliver the reliability needed these days.

 

Rob

[woodenhead]

Well, seconds or otherwise, like other members on here, I will never knowingly purchase a loco in which DJM have been involved.

I feel sorry for the retailers who have commisioned steam locos only for their staff to have deal with the fall out from poor performing, overly complicated models that simply do not deliver the reliability needed these days.

Rob

His Kernow commissioned models that I have four of seem to be fine (with one a return I bought at Warley) and I seem to have been lucky with my 14xx.

[NHY 581]

His Kernow commissioned models that I have four of seem to be fine (with one a return I bought at Warley) and I seem to have been lucky with my 14xx.

Not everyone has problems Wooders. My 02 ran okay but I couldn't put up with the wonky coupling rods which at times had a life of their own. Just looked wrong.

 

That's now gone as well.

 

 

Rob.

[Captain Kernow]

Dave Jones had a stand at Fareham MRExoday; selling 14xx/48xx "seconds" for £70 - wasn't tempted.

That's very, very interesting, as I would have said that we have been told, on more than one occasion by Hattons, that they have exclusive rights on this model.

[tomparryharry]

Hattons might well have exclusive rights on the model, but I'm sure the term 'Disposed by way of trade' can equally happen.

 

Happy modelling,

 

Ian.

[woodenhead]

Dave Jones had a stand at Fareham MREx today; selling 14xx/48xx "seconds" for £70 - wasn't tempted.  Also had J94s but no O2s, probably because he was right next to the Kernow stand!

How big a pile of models was it?

 

The 02 pile he had last year at Warley wasn't massive but there weren't that many models and lots were still unsold new at Kernow.

 

With the 14xx Hattons commissioned a lot of liveries plus weathered but a lot have sold out so it might give more of an indication of returned models

[Pendennis]

How big a pile of models was it?

 

The 02 pile he had last year at Warley wasn't massive but there weren't that many models and lots were still unsold new at Kernow.

 

With the 14xx Hattons commissioned a lot of liveries plus weathered but a lot have sold out so it might give more of an indication of returned models

The pile showed, at a guess, 15-20 models visible all in Hatton's branded boxes; there were at least three different versions.  From the way they were arranged, it is quite possible that they were further models underneath, but they could also have been empty boxes to enhance the display.

 

Regarding Tomparryharry's point, I cannot believe that they were being sold without the agreement of Hattons.  There was a "disclaimer" notice, I can't remember exactly what it said,it was quite long(!) but it did indicate that the models were returns that had been tested.  What I cannot recollect is whether mentioned Hattons or if it differentiated between poor runners and models with some form of physical damage.

 

I was intrigued by the fact that they were being sold in this way, however having had two models with the awful DJM mechanism, I will never buy another one, whatever the price.

 

Martin

Edited October 7, 2018 by Pendennis

[tomparryharry]

Well

 

The pile showed, at a guess, 15-20 models visible all in Hatton's branded boxes; there were at least three different versions.  From the way they were arranged, it is quite possible that they were further models underneath, but they could also have been empty boxes to enhance the display.

 

Regarding Tomparryharry's point, I cannot believe that they were being sold without the agreement of Hattons.  There was a "disclaimer" notice, I can't remember exactly what it said,it was quite long(!) but it did indicate that the models were returns that had been tested.  What I cannot recollect is whether mentioned Hattons or if it differentiated between poor runners and models with some form of physical damage.

 

I was intrigued by the fact that they were being sold in this way, however having had two models with the awful DJM mechanism, I will never buy another one, whatever the price.

 

Martin

 

Hi Martin, your view is quite valid. However, I'd like to point out that trade selling is nothing new in the retail business, models or otherwise. I can remember the proliferation of Bachmann brake van bodies, or the mi-numbered panniers with 8715 on the plates. You would need an invoice, monies, and (as you say) agreement, and away you go.

 

I still have faith in the DJM model. Foolish? Moi? There is a fundamental flaw somewhere in the model, and penny to a pint it will be a simple rectification. How that stands against the much-vaunted quality of the model, remains to be seen. Having seen some of the photos on here, it's a high chance of 'diddy-itis' , as far as the motor is concerned. We shall see.

 

Finally, I should point out that I've only ever expected a 48xx, to do the work of a 48xx. Sure, they can lift a larger load, but in my world, and serious inclement weather, there would be a pannier on the job .In my tiny, happy world, I'd like the quality finish of the DJM model, and the mechanics of the Hornby version. I'm even considering a Black Beetle motor, on a dummy loco body arrangement.

 

Happy modelling,

 

Ian.

[NHY 581]

My three struggled to move themselves in an acceptable fashion let alone under any load.

 

I model small layouts with the accent on smooth , slow running.

 

 

Therefore, with regard to any expectations, I simply expected them to work........they didn't.

 

 

Rob.

[woodenhead]

I model small layouts with the accent on smooth , slow running.

Rob.

And therein lies the difference, you model to exhibit, I model to play, I think our tolerance levels for what is acceptable will differ wildly.

 

Is it possible that as the fidelity of models up top improves that there is an expectation that the under gubbins should be likewise shifting but in reality for true excellent reliable slow running a compensated metal chassis with a decent motor and gears with bulletproof electrical contacts remains the best option.

 

The Hattons 14xx was made to a price, which has probably been targeted at a typical generalist modeller and the drive mechanism lost out over the body. Maybe that was also why the ash pan is missing haha

 

Out of my DJM models my best runners are the Well Tanks and I would put those ahead of my Hornby T9s and M7s. These were the first post Dapol models followed by the 02, maybe they benefitted from Dapol heritage. In terms of range my Bachmann engines might growl a lot but they are happy crawling or galloping, my secondhand N class that I picked up this week is a lovely runner so far.

[Ian Hargrave]

But I think that those of us fortunate to have received decent examples of this model must accept that ,equally,some did not.There's the rub,I'm afraid.

[Dad-1]

For me the real 'Rub' is that I really wanted a 48XX for the clubs new exhibition layout.

Personally I have a Dapol 14xx as well as a Hornby version. Surprisingly perhaps for

some they both run reliably as they bounce along. I had hoped a 'New' allegedly

improved version would be an improvement in accuracy AND running. When I buy a

new locomotive I expect it to run ...... in an acceptable way. My previous 90 have, so

it was regrettable and one can't fault Hatton's in giving a refund, They did however

ignore my letter asking if they could check one before sending ............ MMMmmmm.

 

Dad-1

[NHY 581]

And therein lies the difference, you model to exhibit, I model to play, I think our tolerance levels for what is acceptable will differ wildly.

Is it possible that as the fidelity of models up top improves that there is an expectation that the under gubbins should be likewise shifting but in reality for true excellent reliable slow running a compensated metal chassis with a decent motor and gears with bulletproof electrical contacts remains the best option.

The Hattons 14xx was made to a price, which has probably been targeted at a typical generalist modeller and the drive mechanism lost out over the body. Maybe that was also why the ash pan is missing haha

Out of my DJM models my best runners are the Well Tanks and I would put those ahead of my Hornby T9s and M7s. These were the first post Dapol models followed by the 02, maybe they benefitted from Dapol heritage. In terms of range my Bachmann engines might growl a lot but they are happy crawling or galloping, my secondhand N class that I picked up this week is a lovely runner so far.

Evening Wooders...

 

Yes I do exhibit but primarily, I model for myself. It is a nice bonus and a privilege to take my trainsets out to show other people.

 

The locos have to be good enough for me to play with before anything else. The 14xx aren't. The Well tank is very good but then again my T9s and the M7 is so very good. I agree regarding Bachmann....up to a point. My Midland tender engines are superb but the Jinty not so.

 

With regard to the 14xx, I don't think it was a question of price, I think they are just too clever for their own good.

 

The best runners I have are my Dapol B4s. They are quite simply the bench mark and the 14xx does not come close.

 

 

 

Rob.

Edited October 7, 2018 by NHY 581

[57xx]

Is it possible that as the fidelity of models up top improves that there is an expectation that the under gubbins should be likewise shifting but in reality for true excellent reliable slow running a compensated metal chassis with a decent motor and gears with bulletproof electrical contacts remains the best option.

 

When you say a "compensated metal chassis" are you meaning the like of High Level etc? I have plenty of RTR models that run slowly extremely reliably and at least one that goes at an imperceptible crawl. These are both Hornby and Bachmann models, so it's perfectly do-able without resorting to complex mechanisms that don't work.

[Captain Kernow]

When you say a "compensated metal chassis" are you meaning the like of High Level etc? I have plenty of RTR models that run slowly extremely reliably and at least one that goes at an imperceptible crawl. These are both Hornby and Bachmann models, so it's perfectly do-able without resorting to complex mechanisms that don't work.

Indeed.

 

But it can be a case of pot luck with many RTR steam locos and it is comforting where there is the option of an etched chassis as a safety net. If that doesn't work, then at least you only have yourself to blame!

[woodenhead]

When you say a "compensated metal chassis" are you meaning the like of High Level etc? I have plenty of RTR models that run slowly extremely reliably and at least one that goes at an imperceptible crawl. These are both Hornby and Bachmann models, so it's perfectly do-able without resorting to complex mechanisms that don't work.

Most of my 00 models run at a crawl but my opinion is the best running models I see at exhibitions when it comes to steam engines on shunting layouts use a non RTR chassis.

[woodenhead]

Evening Wooders...

Yes I do exhibit but primarily, I model for myself. It is a nice bonus and a privilege to take my trainsets out to show other people.

The locos have to be good enough for me to play with before anything else. The 14xx aren't. The Well tank is very good but then again my T9s and the M7 is so very good. I agree regarding Bachmann....up to a point. My Midland tender engines are superb but the Jinty not so.

With regard to the 14xx, I don't think it was a question of price, I think they are just too clever for their own good.

The best runners I have are my Dapol B4s. They are quite simply the bench mark and the 14xx does not come close.

Rob.

With the exhibition reference I was putting clear daylight between your trainsets and mine, Picasso and playschool.

 

I am rather hoping I will cure the slow running difficulties I am having at the moment with my T9s and one of my M7s because they were brilliant when I first got them, so a good clean is due.

[NHY 581]

With the exhibition reference I was putting clear daylight between your trainsets and mine, Picasso and playschool.

I am rather hoping I will cure the slow running difficulties I am having at the moment with my T9s and one of my M7s because they were brilliant when I first got them, so a good clean is due.

Blimey Wooders......Picasso?......I must admit my thought process resembles a Picasso painting at times but I am certainly more Playschool than Picasso. I know this.......

 

 

Rob.

[kandc_au]

Guys,

At the end of the day what is termed as a crawl, to one person may be moving fairly quickly to another.
Those in shops, deal with people of all persuasions, and again the above is true for them.
There is no guarantee when the loco is returned that the same person is going to be handling the return item either, ALTHOUGH if that were the case one would hope that the message was communicated to the OP!

 

Khris

[JSpencer]

 

The best runners I have are my Dapol B4s. They are quite simply the bench mark and the 14xx does not come close.

 

Ironically, the Sentinel tank and Well tank is a common ancestor to both designs.

 

If we look at one branch:

Sentinel - uses Dapol's N gauge super creep motor, full gear chassis

Well tank with big open frame motor + sprung leading axle + full geared chassis + removable smokebox door and 6-pin plug + weight over rear 2 axles which is powered

Well tank with (small) Coreless motor + sprung leading axle

O2 - sprung trailing bogie, weight balanced over drivers, introduced speaker wires in bunker

J94 rigid chassis introduced, weight retained to the rear drivers, retains 6pin through smokebox door, no speaker wires

14XX copies J94 but reintroduces speaker wires

1361 as 14XX

 

The other branch is:

Sentinel- uses Dapol's N gauge super creep motor, full gear chassis

Well tank with big open frame motor + sprung leading axle + full geared chassis + removable smokebox door and 6-pin plug + weight over rear 2 axles which is powered

(Edit: there was briefly a Dapol USA tank for model rail which was later taken over by Bachmann)

B4 + abandons smoke box door 6pin fitting, introduces a separate shaft between motor and worm, and firebox glow

Terrier + as B4 plus sound

 

All these designs are plastic bodied with only chassis being cast. The B4 is lovely but is light and has no provision for sound fitting unlike the similar sized Hattons P class.

Edited October 8, 2018 by JSpencer

[Captain Kernow]

Blimey Wooders......Picasso?......I must admit my thought process resembles a Picasso painting at times but I am certainly more Playschool than Picasso.

Don't get me started on the subject of Art, darling.

[NHY 581]

Don't get me started on the subject of Art, darling.

But is it art, dear boy? An expression, am embodyment of all that one seeks to visualise.......

 

Rob.

[Captain Kernow]

But is it art, dear boy? An expression, am embodyment of all that one seeks to visualise.......

 

I believe this loco to be aesthetically sublime in that the subconscious mark-making of the purity of line brings within the realm of discourse the accessibility of the work with an ostentatiously delightful spark of conceptually robust individualism, but the chassis is carp.

[Ian Hargrave]

But is it art, dear boy? An expression, am embodyment of all that one seeks to visualise.......

Rob.

I believe this loco to be aesthetically sublime in that the subconscious mark-making of the purity of line brings within the realm of discourse the accessibility of the work with an ostentatiously delightful spark of conceptually robust individualism, but the chassis is carp.

Banksie? They self destruct....apparently

[Danemouth]

I believe this loco to be aesthetically sublime in that the subconscious mark-making of the purity of line brings within the realm of discourse the accessibility of the work with an ostentatiously delightful spark of conceptually robust individualism, but the chassis is carp.

 

House! - we are playing bullsh1t bingo aren't we?

 

Dave