Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx

[57xx]

A few things that don't seen quite right ... also the regulator handle in the cab seems too low.

 

This was brought up before and from what I can see Dave has taken note and it has been altered from the original CAD pics we were shown:

vs

 

I'd love to get one of those cab fronts as a spare part to update my Airfix 14xx and make it look right from the outside.

 

 

I think this a good idea - perhaps even a great idea if the supplied plates aren't over-glued. Real GWR plates are much heftier items than the etched replacements we all usually fit, this will enable not only a representation of the missing depth and rounded edges, but should self-align well.

 

 I think you have missed the fact this is a recess, not a raised portion. How will a recess make etched plates look like they have more depth?

[Hilux5972]

Has anyone actually seen the etched plates Dave is gong to be fitting? I highly doubt so. Perhaps before everyone jumps on him for the recess we should wait to see his etchings first? I have a feeling that, seeing as all his Kings and the 14xx/48xx/58xx are to have etched name/numberplates factory fitted, that he may have his own facility for etching. Something tells me that Fox or Modelmaster et al will not put aside all their work for Daves locos.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Hilux5972

[coachmann]

All manufacturers engraved plates are intended for flush platework. Anything introduced now to make a modellers life difficult is bound to be mentioned, and that cabside recess will be a pain.

[57xx]

One other thought. Last time I asked about bunker steps (omission thereof on early examples of the locos) there was no response. Are there any EP examples of the early versions done correctly without bunker steps and cab roof handrail? 

[MPR]

 I think you have missed the fact this is a recess, not a raised portion. How will a recess make etched plates look like they have more depth?

 

I don't know, but I expect that the recess is there to take a moulded carrier for the number plate. The carrier would be pre-assembled with the required etched plate and then located in the slot. This will give a higher product yield - the manufacturer will have to scrap any misaligned plates otherwise. Thickness of this would be designed to make the front of the plate still be at the right level.

But, it also then gives a way to represent the radiused edges of Great Western plates, which isn't easy to do with etched parts, which either have the etch cusp in place around the edge or get rounded off leaving the raised rim as the edge. In either case, you lose an element of the look of the plate.

Of course none of the above might actually work, in which case the feature in the tool which produces the recess could be ground back flush when the rivets are being added to it...

[gooderz]

Bank account is currently yelling 'no, dont do it' as i press the pre order button. Such a small characteristic loco ram packed with detail is hard to say no too.

[Captain Kernow]

Hopefully there will be a selection of alternative numbers, which will fit the recessed section correctly, even if they are available separately.

 

Alternatively, I don't see it as that difficult to fill the recess with a bit of plasticard.

[TrevorP1]

Really want one of these but would like to do 1419, long time Fowey branch engine.

 

This requires BR black with small logo, no top feed. So, to achieve minimum alteration, I need to respray Hattons 1409 and apparently fill the numberplate recess. All doable of course but it just goes against the grain buying a beautiful £125 model (DCC) and then attacking it!

[Quarryscapes]

Has anyone actually seen the etched plates Dave is gong to be fitting? I highly doubt so. Perhaps before everyone jumps on him for the recess we should wait to see his etchings first? I have a feeling that, seeing as all his Kings and the 14xx/48xx/58xx are to have etched name/numberplates factory fitted, that he may have his own facility for etching. Something tells me that Fox or Modelmaster et al will not put aside all their work for Daves locos.

 

Whilst this is indeed true, it does mean you're stuck to just the numbers produced for this series, you won't be able to renumber using anybody else's plates as they'll disappear into the cabside, if indeed they are even the same profile as the supplied plates. Filling could work, and you wouldn't necessarily have to fill in the traditional sense, just a block of plasticard behind the new numberplate would do, but you could still potentially run into the problem of the profiles not matching and leaving a big old gap top and bottom for example. 

 

Nobody's saying it's going to put them off buying, it just seems an odd and maybe even un-necessary design choice. 

 

As someone who produces GWR I will be looking very closely at this feature and seeing what will be necessary to do to my range in order to make them compatible. 

 

As for the chimney ridge - that is correct, the real ones are not single piece castings, they do have a ridge, it is just very very small. My own were modelled as a 0.05mm step in radius which virtually disappears under painting and looks very convincing. 

[Horsetan]

....we should wait to see his etchings first?...

I'm sure Dave will invite us all up to see his etchings.

[MGR Hooper!]

After seeing the EP's I'm really impressed! Looks spectacular and IMO much better than the J94. I wish it was done to this standard in N gauge...

[DJM Dave]

I'm sure Dave will invite us all up to see his etchings.

Maybe not all at once

[Captain Kernow]

Really want one of these but would like to do 1419, long time Fowey branch engine.

 

This requires BR black with small logo, no top feed. So, to achieve minimum alteration, I need to respray Hattons 1409 and apparently fill the numberplate recess. All doable of course but it just goes against the grain buying a beautiful £125 model (DCC) and then attacking it!

Yes, it does go a bit against the grain, but you'd still be left with a model much superior to virtually any of the competition.

[9402 Fredrick]

I'm excited to see the test video uploaded by Hattons, when they get around to it.

[luke_stevens]

One way round the recess and renaming would be for Dave/Hattons to provide a moulded "blank" that would fill the recess to flush, then any plates could be used. Or maybe one of the etched plate purveyors could do it? It wouldn't give a hidden join but would go a long way to assist those wanting an unplated version. Any remaining indication of plate could be weathered to looking like the mark around where the plate once went.

 

Luke

[coachmann]

Plastic number plate with two pips on the back going into holes in cabside would ensure plates were level. A push fit may not require any glue. A result for scale modellers who can lever said plates off and glue etched brass plates over holes. Job done and surely in line with the super-detail DJM is incorporating into it's designs. Afterall, super-detail is wasted on folk who consider cabside recesses arent a problem so who exactly is Hattons aiming these super-Kings and 14XX's at? Certainly not Mr. & Mrs Joseph Blogg who will have only heard of Hornby. Well thats my view for what it's worth. 

Edited December 22, 2015 by coachmann

[Focalplane]

If I may also weigh in, fitting custom brass plates (from whichever source) would be greatly enhanced for me if the space where they are supposed to go would be slightly recessed.  I have fitted numerous GWR plates in the past and was never happy with the hit and miss technique.  I agree with Coachmann.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

If I may also weigh in, fitting custom brass plates (from whichever source) would be greatly enhanced for me if the space where they are supposed to go would be slightly recessed.  I have fitted numerous GWR plates in the past and was never happy with the hit and miss technique.  I agree with Coachmann.

 

Sorry, but it seems to me that you are completely disagreeing with coachman ..... he is saying the exact opposite to what you have just said ... or that's how it reads to me

[Happy Hippo]

3/4" thick aka 0.25mm in 4mm scale. The numbers are only supposed to be raised 1/4" too. 

Thanks for that useful bit of info.

 

As an aside I suppose we ought to remember that a lot of the lowlier members of the GWR and BR(W) built members of the fleet had plates that were cast iron and the letters and the raised edge of the palate were painted a pale yellow and not shiny polished brass.

[coachmann]

Thanks for that useful bit of info.

 

As an aside I suppose we ought to remember that a lot of the lowlier members of the GWR and BR(W) built members of the fleet had plates that were cast iron and the letters and the raised edge of the palate were painted a pale yellow and not shiny polished brass.

I have never come across anyone that picks them out in yellow besides me. They look poxy in 4mm.

[Captain Kernow]

If I may also weigh in, fitting custom brass plates (from whichever source) would be greatly enhanced for me if the space where they are supposed to go would be slightly recessed.  I have fitted numerous GWR plates in the past and was never happy with the hit and miss technique.  I agree with Coachmann.

Out of interest, did the GWR have some kind of template in Swindon Works when fitting the numberplates to the real thing, to ensure that they always went in exactly the same place on each loco? Or was there a degree of 'hit and miss', with the precise positioning of plates varying just slightly between locos?

[The Stationmaster]

Out of interest, did the GWR have some kind of template in Swindon Works when fitting the numberplates to the real thing, to ensure that they always went in exactly the same place on each loco? Or was there a degree of 'hit and miss', with the precise positioning of plates varying just slightly between locos?

Seems to have been done by measurement (Note *) but in the case of refitting plates (especially cast iron ones) there would have been some bolt holes and a 'fingerprint' in the paintwork to aim at.

 

Note * - judging by the way Caerphilly marked out for hand painted substitute numbers.

Edited January 11, 2016 by The Stationmaster

[John Isherwood]

I have never come across anyone that picks them out in yellow besides me. They look poxy in 4mm.

 

I did this with my Bachmann 64xx pannier tank.

 

However, I scanned the plate and printed a matching transfer in cream / yellow, plus the orange lining.

 

Being based on a scan the transfer exactly matches the plate and, IMHO, looks OK.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Captain Kernow]

Out of interest, did the GWR have some kind of template in Swindon Works when fitting the numberplates to the real thing, to ensure that they always went in exactly the same place on each loco? Or was there a degree of 'hit and miss', with the precise positioning of plates varying just slightly between locos?

Always happy to be identified as a source of amusement, but the serious point here was to question the degree of consistency when the original plates were fitted to any given class of locomotive, thus possibly implying a small degree of leeway to us modellers (albeit probably no more than a fraction of a millimetre in any direction).

[coachmann]

Always happy to be identified as a source of amusement, but the serious point here was to question the degree of consistency when the original plates were fitted to any given class of locomotive, thus possibly implying a small degree of leeway to us modellers (albeit probably no more than a fraction of a millimetre in any direction).

Possibly, although seeing as platework was drilled on templates to make it interchangeable, I would have thought the holes for cabside number plates were drilled at the same time.