N Gauge Class 390 Pendolino (post Kickstarter) with Rapido

[scottystitch]

So here's the dilema. Do I, don't I? Do I model N? No. (Don't really like it to be honest but don't tell). Do I like Pendo's? No. (Never taken much notice of them in the flesh) Do I want to support this project? YES! There's clearly a desire for the Pendo to be produced & if Rapido are doing it then it will be first class. And if Biff is doing the sound for those that do it will be stonking - my Biff OO Class 60 is by far the best sound loco I have seen yet.  So I pledge for 4 9 car sets. 1 gets kept as I'm a collector. 3 get sold on. A nine car set is £255 if purchased now. I stick it on ebay at £300. Suddenly I become one of those greedy profiteers? ebay & paypal take 13.4% so the profit is actually under £5.And I've had to pay shipping to me for the sets so the profit is about, erm, zero. How does that go down with the folks on here? Or do I just buy a set for myself & pop it in the cupboard?

I think you have to look at it slightly differently. Why do you need to make a profit? If you're pledging for more than one for philanthropic reasons, why not do as I intend and stick them on ebay with a starting price that ensures you break even (after all postage costs, etc.) and then let the auction process take it's course? The market sets the price. If people bid higher than what you paid out, how does that make you greedy? If there is no bidding frenzy you break even, and you get a warm fuzzy feeling inside that you helped a slice of the model railway fraternity achieve a fantastic aim. Kickstarter becomes a valid and established means of bringing a model to market, and who knows, maybe a model that you do desire becomes the next crowfunded target.

 

Just a thought.

Edited January 14, 2015 by scottystitch

[Great Western]

I think kickstart is an unknown to 99% of people. We're being asked to give money to two people who (with the greatest of respect) are being trusted to use that money to produce a model for us.

 

At least with DJM, Bachmann etc we know they will produce a model (in the end) with no perceived financial risk to the individual.

 

£60,000 in four days.

 

Great Western

Edited January 14, 2015 by Great Western

[Andy Y]

We're being asked to give money to two people who (with the greatest of respect) are being trusted to use that money to produce a model for us.

 

 

I have 100% confidence in Ben and Mike; Ben occupies a position of stature outside the hobby as well as in it and Mike has a great track record of organising events for the benefit of the hobby and the society to which he belongs. 

[scottystitch]

Just having looked at the figures, the breakdown of the sets pledged for looks like this:

 

2 car - 7       1.75%

5 car - 22     5.61%

9 car - 195   49.74%

11 car - 168 42.9%

 

Sound and non-sound have been lumped together as my aim was to see what length trains people are pledging for. non reward pledges have been excluded.

 

This surprised me a bit as I thought there would have been more 5 cars pledged for, as there are many people with layouts that wouldnt support a full length Pendo. Pleasantly surprised.

[scottystitch]

I think kickstart is an unknown to 99% of people. We're being asked to give money to two people who (with the greatest of respect) are being trusted to use that money to produce a model for us.

 

At least with DJM, Bachmann etc we know they will produce a model (in the end) with no perceived financial risk to the individual.

 

£60,000 in four days.

 

Great Western

To be fair, that's not strictly true. Ben and Mike are not going to produce a model for us, Rapido are. They way I see it, they are just doing (a hell of a lot of) legwork for Rapido.

 

We are giving our money to Rapido ultimately. An established and respected model train manufacturer.

[roundhouse]

Also add to that , Ben and Mike almost certainly want these more than many of us and will also be putting their money up front so they of all people will want success for this project even more than the rest of us.

 

Also bear in mind the amount of time that they have already put into this including getting leaflets printed.

 

Hence I am prepared to to join in what ever (tiny) risk that some might foresee.

Edited January 14, 2015 by roundhouse

[scottystitch]

Also add to that , Ben and Mike almost certainly want these more than many of us and will also be putting their money up front so they of all people will want success for this project even more than the rest of us.

 

Also bear in mind the amount of time that they have already put into this including getting leaflets printed.

 

Hence I am prepared to to join in what ever (tiny) risk that some might foresee.

Plus, (Ben especially), we know where to find them!

 

All joking aside, I have 100% confidence that should the target be met, everyone involved will deliver.

[Revolution Ben]

Hi all,

 

Ollie: Your post illustrates the dilemma of every trader - "how can I make a profit while not seeming greedy?!" And it makes the provisional RRP of £320 for a 9-car set seem not unreasonable, even though it's £65 more than we are asking on Kickstarter...!

 

Scotty: It's been a surprise to us that the 11-car sets have been nearly as popular as the nine-car. What we've also noticed is the relative lack of interest (5.6%) in the 5-car short sets. We only added these in response to what seemed to be a chorus of people telling us they wanted the cheaper option...!

 

GW: Others have explained that in reality Mike and I are only agents for this project, and Rapido are the manufacturers. If you're not aware of Rapido and need reassurance you might want to read their APT-E thread on here. What's interesting in that - apart from Jason Shron's infectious enthusiasm - is that they are clearly committed to quality and fidelity, and were able to get their test mouldings factory-painted to display at Warley ahead of schedule. To be fair, the APT-E is the only British outline model they've announced so receives maximum attention.

 

In terms of the target, while it's clear pledges have been accelerating we do need a surge for the last four days. But it's also clear that there are lots of people who, for whatever reason, are waiting until the last minute. I suspect it's going to be a nail-biting last few days watching the kickstarter page!!

 

Thanks to all for the support...

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Ben A

[ollieollieollie]

Scottystitch - I did not say I need or want to make a profit. I pointed out the perception of being a profiteer to cover the costs of buying & reselling to help the project.

 

I could resell on here but is there any member who doesn't know of the project, or on any of the other forums? Surely they will have ordered their own?

[Steve Purves]

Scottystitch - I did not say I need or want to make a profit. I pointed out the perception of being a profiteer to cover the costs of buying & reselling to help the project.

 

I could resell on here but is there any member who doesn't know of the project, or on any of the other forums? Surely they will have ordered their own?

 

I for one am aware of the project, but in no financial position to pleadge at this time so will be in the market for one should one appear for sale in the future!

[scottystitch]

Scottystitch - I did not say I need or want to make a profit. I pointed out the perception of being a profiteer to cover the costs of buying & reselling to help the project.

 

I could resell on here but is there any member who doesn't know of the project, or on any of the other forums? Surely they will have ordered their own?

I appreciate that Ollie, and I apologise if I inferred anything untoward, that wasn't the intention. My tone was nothing other than conversational.

 

I see where you are coming from, but as we have seen on this thread, there are some who don't trust Kickstarter (rightly or wrongly), are unsure of Rapido Trains or are unwilling to commit to a model upfront, without seeing an actual product produced. I would suggest that is who will buy your Pendos.

[njee20]

Scottystitch - I did not say I need or want to make a profit. I pointed out the perception of being a profiteer to cover the costs of buying & reselling to help the project.

 

I could resell on here but is there any member who doesn't know of the project, or on any of the other forums? Surely they will have ordered their own?

Except for the likes of Great Western who either don't have the funds available now or perceive some element of risk, stopping them pledging. I can't see there will be a huge flood of availability when they're released - so I imagine turning a profit would be rather easy!

 

Edit: too slow! Stupid tube with no signal!

Edited January 14, 2015 by njee20

[Great Western]

Just to clarfy I wasn't for one second suggesting any dishonesty with the project manages, just marely saying that some people aren't 100% confident to part with several hundred pounds.

 

I don't have the funds sitting round to pledge, nor do I wish to get into debt to fund one.

 

Once again I wish you luck with the project. By the looks of it the total has risen £1000 in the last hour or so.

 

Great Western

Edited January 14, 2015 by Great Western

[scottystitch]

Just to clarfy I wasn't for one second suggesting any dishonesty with the project manages, just marely saying that some people aren't 100% confident to part with several hundred pounds.

 

I don't have the funds sitting round to pledge, nor do I wish to get into debt to fund one.

 

Once again I wish you luck with the project. By the looks of it the total has risen £1000 in the last hour or so.

 

Great Western

I'm sure nobody thought that GW, apologies if it came across that way. I guess we're all just anxious to get over the finish line.

[Great Western]

Up £500 since my last post !

 

Great Western

[thelochtatmonster]

Scottystitch - I did not say I need or want to make a profit. I pointed out the perception of being a profiteer to cover the costs of buying & reselling to help the project.

I could resell on here but is there any member who doesn't know of the project, or on any of the other forums? Surely they will have ordered their own?

Surely if you put your money in the pot and pledge for however many sets you like, the sets would be yours for you to do what you wanted with. If you want to try and turn a profit or just sell them to cover your own costs (a risk in itself), it would be completely up to you and you should feel no guilt in doing what was suggested. After all, this will be what any shops that pledge to the project will be doing, and if it gets me an N gauge Pendolino.....

 

Unfortunately, despite all the hard work that both Mike and Ben have put into this project, without people stumping up, there will be no model.

 

Let's hope the people of Canterbury are feeling frugal this weekend!

Edited January 14, 2015 by thelochtatmonster

[traction]

Just having looked at the figures, the breakdown of the sets pledged for looks like this:

 

2 car - 7       1.75%

5 car - 22     5.61%

9 car - 195   49.74%

11 car - 168 42.9%

 

Sound and non-sound have been lumped together as my aim was to see what length trains people are pledging for. non reward pledges have been excluded.

 

This surprised me a bit as I thought there would have been more 5 cars pledged for, as there are many people with layouts that wouldnt support a full length Pendo. Pleasantly surprised.

 

Thats a surprise, but could also be helpful.

For those who don't want a loco, but want to support the project you could buy the two coach pack, to use as delivery coaches.

Now for just £90 you could buy 3 two coach packs, two of which could be sold later to those who bought the 9 car sets and want to go up to 11 cars

 

Just a thought.

 

Ian

[ruggedpeak]

Just increased my pledge significantly.

 

Hopefully everyone who's pledged can think about buying one more set.....

 

 

or two.........

 

Fingers crossed

[Steve-e]

Just having looked at the figures, the breakdown of the sets pledged for looks like this:

 

2 car - 7       1.75%

5 car - 22     5.61%

9 car - 195   49.74%

11 car - 168 42.9%

 

Sound and non-sound have been lumped together as my aim was to see what length trains people are pledging for. non reward pledges have been excluded.

 

This surprised me a bit as I thought there would have been more 5 cars pledged for, as there are many people with layouts that wouldnt support a full length Pendo. Pleasantly surprised.

 

 

Thats a surprise, but could also be helpful.

For those who don't want a loco, but want to support the project you could buy the two coach pack, to use as delivery coaches.

Now for just £90 you could buy 3 two coach packs, two of which could be sold later to those who bought the 9 car sets and want to go up to 11 cars

 

Just a thought.

 

Ian

Thanks for that..

 

Looking at the figures I've gone for a 2 car set seeing as there are potentially 217 sets that could be upgraded to add the additional cars and only 7 people going for the 2 cars ... 8 now... it looks a good idea also 2 cars for £30... bargain.

 

If they stick to producing the exact requirments the 8 boxed sets of 2 cars maybe something of a collectors item surely thats a Limited issue??

 

Steve

Edited January 15, 2015 by Steve-e

[Karhedron]

But it's also clear that there are lots of people who, for whatever reason, are waiting until the last minute. I suspect it's going to be a nail-biting last few days watching the kickstarter page!!

In my case, I do not particularly want a Pendolino as it just wouldn't look right on my GWR BLT.

 

However I really do want this project to succeed, both for the hard work that Ben and Mike have put in and for the possibilities it will open up in the future. Therefore if the project has not reached its target on Sunday, I will seriously consider pledging to help it on its way.

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

Over 145K pledged now, 69% of the target with just under four full days of pledging left until the deadline on Sunday evening at 2200G.

 

It's going right to the wire...

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[njee20]

A definite surge in the last few days - consistently getting £3-5k/day, but that still leaves us short, I imagine the weekend will be busier.

 

Interesting the Success Predictor thingummybob had us down to a c40% success ratio, and has shot up this morning to 83% likely to succeed.

[Vistisen]

In my case, I do not particularly want a Pendolino as it just wouldn't look right on my GWR BLT.

 

However I really do want this project to succeed, both for the hard work that Ben and Mike have put in and for the possibilities it will open up in the future. Therefore if the project has not reached its target on Sunday, I will seriously consider pledging to help it on its way.

I too really want this to succeed, (even though I'm modeling a western region branch line in the 1960's in OO gauge). But I'm sorry, it makes no sense to pledge money for a train that I will never use, on the basis that a success now will cause future projects to succeed. What if project number two is also something that I don’t want, should I also support that on the basis that one failure will prevent project number three?

It is surely a manufacture’s dream: By using this investment model, they don’t to have invest anything upfront, and people will buy it even if they don’t want it, because they are supporting a good cause!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against crowd sourcing (I have invested in a couple for 3D printers and to help friends produce CD's)  If there were a prototype that someone was trying to crowd source that I actually would buy if it came on the market as a retail model, then I would have no doubts at all about pledging for it. There is not really much difference between that and a preorder these days.

[Stevelewis]

I too really want this to succeed, (even though I'm modeling a western region branch line in the 1960's in OO gauge). But I'm sorry, it makes no sense to pledge money for a train that I will never use, on the basis that a success now will cause future projects to succeed. What if project number two is also something that I don’t want, should I also support that on the basis that one failure will prevent project number three?

It is surely a manufacture’s dream: By using this investment model, they don’t to have invest anything upfront, and people will buy it even if they don’t want it, because they are supporting a good cause!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against crowd sourcing (I have invested in a couple for 3D printers and to help friends produce CD's)  If there were a prototype that someone was trying to crowd source that I actually would buy if it came on the market as a retail model, then I would have no doubts at all about pledging for it. There is not really much difference between that and a preorder these days.

I have  to  agree  with  you,  looks  nice  but I am  just  not  interested in  the  Pendolino,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Now  if  it  had  been  a  Trans  Pennine  DMU  from  hte  60s  I  would  have  pledged  for  4  (at least)

Edited January 15, 2015 by Stevelewis

[lyneux]

Now  if  it  had  been  a  Trans  Pennine  DMU  from  hte  60s  I  would  have  pledged  for  4  (at least)

 

Why not start your own Kickstarter for a Trans Pennine then rather than being another one of the "nothing for me here" brigade?