bubbles2 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Scammell Townsman at Paignton http://brdiesels.webs.com/thejdscollection1.htm, scroll down to photo 6, some lovely 60s and 70s pics on this site 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewipe Jct Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Scammell Townsman at Paignton http://brdiesels.web...collection1.htm, scroll down to photo 6, some lovely 60s and 70s pics on this site Some really good photos on there I notice the date for the Townsman photo is given as 1972, which prompts a question I've been meaning to ask for a while - how long did the various 3-wheelers actually remain in service with BR? Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Some really good photos on there I notice the date for the Townsman photo is given as 1972, which prompts a question I've been meaning to ask for a while - how long did the various 3-wheelers actually remain in service with BR? Kevin Good question Kevin ! The picture at Paignton in 1972 seems late in their career. The early Scammell mechanical horses ceased production about 1948 and seem to have dissapeared from use as internal shunters in the early 60s. The Scarab which replaced them from 1948, were in production until about 1966 although B R didn't buy them after 1964 when the Townsman appeared. Again many Scarabs remained in internal use till the late 60s. The Townsman, B R bought from 1964 to 1967, but in 1969 the goods work went to National Carriers leaving a few to soldier on with the parcels and sundries work. I saw some Townsmen transfered to Dublin during the 70s which may well have been the last to work with B R. Any advance on 1972 ? Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb 3c Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Good pic of the Townsman and good info , wonder how BR decided which stations got Scarabs and which got Bantams ? or was it luck of the draw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Good pic of the Townsman and good info , wonder how BR decided which stations got Scarabs and which got Bantams ? or was it luck of the draw. Another good question ! My theory, may be the Scarab being slow ( I drove one once) were for the shorter distance use, the Bantam for further afield. Any body expand on this ? Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2011 Another good question ! My theory, may be the Scarab being slow ( I drove one once) were for the shorter distance use, the Bantam for further afield. Any body expand on this ? Merf. Scarabs were very good for tight spaces and in some cases were the only tractors capable of getting trailers into and out of some customer's unloading bays, especially when drop trailers were used. They were also excellent of course for moving trailers in depots hence them finishing up on internal use especially where space available between sidings was tight. As Merf suggests they were not so good on longer distances - mainly because of, I think, lack of power and poor ride when compared with a 4 wheeled tractor unit and on the Western they were only normally allocated for town rounds (but not necessarily exclusively used on such work). I once had a ride on one doing an out-of-town delivery and it was quite 'exciting', but not at all rapid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 A couple of recent projects. The Corgi Coles crane, a very nice model which from my research seems to be a model bought by B R between c1954 & 1963, most seem to have been delivered in crimson with cream jib. The later ones may have been yellow from new. A few seem to have lasted a long time after goods yards closed being transfered to loco depots. I have pictures of one each at Crewe Diesel, Longsight and Springs Branch. I have done the yellow model to represent 428PRO of the Midland Region which I think was a steel yard crane at Wolverhampton. I have added 1963 style transfers and a bit of weathering. Photo from Rail News c1965. Another chance of adding a railway car to the collection. This Morris Minor MM (LAR302 686C) was bought by the Midland Region in 1950, then later transfered to the Eastern as ZM1303E, to join a number of the same model they had. The Oxford model didn't look quite right to me but after looking at photos, I took a file to the top edge of the windscreen to take away the arch shape. Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb 3c Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Something for the weekend Were these BR vehicles ? 1988 Freightliner Seddon Atkinson in the red/white livery with fleet number and reg number. http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_387907-Seddon-Atkinson-1988.html Coles crane in same depot –I think http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_387915-Volvo-F10.html http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_387986-Audi-Quattro-Typ-85Q-1985.html Distant FG crewbus Fraserburgh 1975 http://www.railbrit.org.uk/images/17000/17368.jpg Distant fg crewbus 2 ECML Selby http://www.dflitcroft.co.uk/The%20Railway%20Image/Early_Years/1970s/1976/ECML_Visit/content/2752_large.html Yet another HA and tranny Wigan Wallgate http://www.dflitcroft.co.uk/The%20Railway%20Image/Early_Years/1970s/1978/Monochrome/content/097810_large.html Couple of Coles cranes ar Lowestoft sleeper depot http://www.abrail.co.uk/Images/Lowestoft%20SD2.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Something for the weekend Were these BR vehicles ? 1988 Freightliner Seddon Atkinson in the red/white livery with fleet number and reg number. http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_387907-Seddon-Atkinson-1988.html Coles crane in same depot –I think http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_387915-Volvo-F10.html http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_387986-Audi-Quattro-Typ-85Q-1985.html Distant FG crewbus Fraserburgh 1975 http://www.railbrit.org.uk/images/17000/17368.jpg Distant fg crewbus 2 ECML Selby http://www.dflitcroft.co.uk/The%20Railway%20Image/Early_Years/1970s/1976/ECML_Visit/content/2752_large.html Yet another HA and tranny Wigan Wallgate http://www.dflitcroft.co.uk/The%20Railway%20Image/Early_Years/1970s/1978/Monochrome/content/097810_large.html Couple of Coles cranes ar Lowestoft sleeper depot http://www.abrail.co.uk/Images/Lowestoft%20SD2.jpg more good finds jcb. The Freightliner Seddon Atkinson 3-11 was allocated to Birmingham (77 fleet number prefix) Yes still B R up till 1996 when they were sold off. Note that most Freightliner vehicles were at that time locally registered by the depots. The Coles cranes in the Lowestoft shot are the later model with chunky single rear tyres, a possible mod. to the Corgi model using militery type wheels and a scrach built chassis. Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyewipe Jct Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Good question Kevin ! The picture at Paignton in 1972 seems late in their career. The early Scammell mechanical horses ceased production about 1948 and seem to have dissapeared from use as internal shunters in the early 60s. The Scarab which replaced them from 1948, were in production until about 1966 although B R didn't buy them after 1964 when the Townsman appeared. Again many Scarabs remained in internal use till the late 60s. The Townsman, B R bought from 1964 to 1967, but in 1969 the goods work went to National Carriers leaving a few to soldier on with the parcels and sundries work. I saw some Townsmen transfered to Dublin during the 70s which may well have been the last to work with B R. Any advance on 1972 ? Merf. Cheers Merf. So for BR 'out & about' work (rather than internal use), then, it would seem to be safe to assume that the mechanical horses might feature until the mid-late 50s; the Scarabs - late 40s to early-mid 60s; & then the Townsman from the mid 60s until around 1972. All interesting stuff! Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Cheers Merf. So for BR 'out & about' work (rather than internal use), then, it would seem to be safe to assume that the mechanical horses might feature until the mid-late 50s; the Scarabs - late 40s to early-mid 60s; & then the Townsman from the mid 60s until around 1972. All interesting stuff! Kevin Pretty certain that some Scarabs ran alongside Townsmen until the demise of both types. I'm also reasonably certain that I saw a Townsman doing the 'Woolworths' run in Llanelli in 1973- traffic originated in Swansea, but I think the trailers were brought down by other tractors to the former Llanelli goods yard. Certainly, there were both trailers and the Rail Express Parcels Commers stabled overnight there. There seems to be quite a collection of Scarabs and Townsmen in the former Aluminium Wire and Cable factory off Fabian Way in Swansea- most are in various states of decay, but one or two look as though an attempt has been made to restore them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb 3c Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Interesting stuff about the Scarabs , in my town it was Bantams then Ford D's but there was no difficult access. You don't see many pictures of the Ford D mini artics so assume they weren't so common? Came across this interesting site the other day with br parcel vans - anyone know anything about the BR Bedford 'Flying Pigs' parcel vans , new to me. http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2011/03/heres-one-i-drove-earlier-just.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted April 9, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 9, 2011 The Bedford 'flying pig' was a version of the BRS 'noddy van' but on a Bedford chassis instead of a BMC chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Came across this interesting site the other day with br parcel vans - anyone know anything about the BR Bedford 'Flying Pigs' parcel vans , new to me. http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2011/03/heres-one-i-drove-earlier-just.html The Bedford 'flying pig' was a version of the BRS 'noddy van' but on a Bedford chassis instead of a BMC chassis. Interesting find. Somthing I have never seen before either. K & L registered, would have been after the BMC Noddy had ceased production I think. Did NCL design the odd front, looks like a poor copy of the Hawson body fitted to the Bedford TJ chassis, could it have been from NFC owned Star Motor Bodies of Oldham who had built the Noddys ? Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 The Bedford TJ4 Hawson, photo from my collection. Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipbadger Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I remember at least one of these Bedfords operating in Gloucester. Until now I thought some wag had swopped the BMC badge for the Bedford lettering as no-one seemed to know anything about them. Now I know better. Tony Comber Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted April 10, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2011 The bonnet looks longer and wider than the BMC. An easy conversion of the Trackside noddy van perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 A few oldies from flickr tonight. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55268742@N08/5606442083/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/55268742@N08/5606442091/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/55268742@N08/5606442093/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/55268742@N08/5606442097/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/55268742@N08/5606442105/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/55268742@N08/5606442115/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/55268742@N08/5592464537/ Merf. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted April 11, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 11, 2011 The Townsman is attached to a lot older trailer, possibly pre-war. Scammel ceased using that style of wheel about 1946. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Further looking into those Bedford TJ parcel vans. It seems BR bought a good number of TJ3LZ chassis with Redhill bodies, from about 1968-70. They had the Bedford TJ usual front / grille. The ones in the website are the slightly later and larger TJ4LZ with Hawson bodies which were marketed as a complete integral van by Bedford, these seem to be from about 1970-73 and delivered to National Carriers, these having the pig nose type grille, withe the headlight arrangment updated on the later ones. I have not seen one in BR livery till now, although they were NCL vehicles by then. The odd one is the L reg. one with the Bedford front, which looks different from the Hawsons. Now I must look out for a cheap Corgi Noddy. Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb 3c Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Good finds with the flickr pictures Merf , never seen a Thames ET6 with the yellow livery before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted April 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2011 Good finds with the flickr pictures Merf , never seen a Thames ET6 with the yellow livery before. IIRC even one or two of the Scammel mechanical horses received yellow livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 IIRC even one or two of the Scammel mechanical horses received yellow livery. I have a number of pics. of Ford ET6s in yellow, (and 3 in engineers green) but they all carry the Railfreight branding. This is the only one I have come across which looks to have had the later Rail Express Parcels branding. It seems to have been painted over in black along with the fleet number for disposal. It looks like parked up in Battersea goods yard. I have yet to see a yellow Mechanical Horse, although they were usualy painted grey for internal shunting maybe some were given whatever paint was to hand. Very hard to tell as most were seen in black and white photos. And what is often forgoten is that the last Scarabs were even delivered in yellow in 1963. Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb 3c Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) This parcel trailer at Driffield looks exceptionally small, could it be a Jen Tug trailer in 1968? http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/d/driffield/index13.shtml Edited April 21, 2011 by jcb 3c Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissixties Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I have a number of pics. of Ford ET6s in yellow, (and 3 in engineers green) but they all carry the Railfreight branding. This is the only one I have come across which looks to have had the later Rail Express Parcels branding. It seems to have been painted over in black along with the fleet number for disposal. It looks like parked up in Battersea goods yard. I have yet to see a yellow Mechanical Horse, although they were usualy painted grey for internal shunting maybe some were given whatever paint was to hand. Very hard to tell as most were seen in black and white photos. And what is often forgoten is that the last Scarabs were even delivered in yellow in 1963. Merf. This is my favourite thread and I follow it with great interest. Mentioning that Scarabs were delivered in yellow in 1963 reminds me that I still don't have a really clear idea of exactly what liveries were introduced when on BR's various road vehicles. I would love to see a definitive, illustrated list, with dates (if that is at all possible?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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