Railway Motors

[Merfyn Jones]

Merf, The original is very grainy, even with a magnifying glass it's difficult to be sure. I'd say the reg is TYO 396, the least clear is the last letter so the O might just be a D. Again I think you've got the fleet number right. The second number is the least clear but 8630D seems right.

 

Arthur

 

Thanks Arthur.

So TYO396 looks good to me (There are others registered TYO) but on second thoughts I think the fleet number is probably 8030 D W as the 86## numbers were the Thornycrofts and a later FF artic I have is 8216 D W.

It is a Austin FE of c1958 of the Western Region, who also hade some Morris versions.

Cheers Merf.

[jcb 3c]

Some bits and Bobs -

Bedford CA van VGF930 in dark alley

 

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s13522

 

 

Futuristic BR road sweeper XUC 791 prowls Hither Green Freight depot in 1960

 

 

 

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=65635

 

 

St.Pancras -arty shot with distant Austin and lots of trailers.

 

http://viewfinder.english-heritage.org.uk/search/detail.aspx?uid=130327

 

 

Rail Express Blue and white van bodies/trailers in the wilds .

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/406386

 

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1457064

 

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1717059

 

 

Superb 1962 colour pic of battered BR Scarab on wikipedia

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:British_Railways_Delivery_Truck_London_1962.jpg

[Fat Controller]

I liked the film about Hither Green- I did get the feeling that the idea of palletization hadn't quite sunk in, however, as they put stuff on to pallets in the van, moved them around the depot, and then handballed them on to a lorry. Mind you, I remember unloading some allegedly palletized bags of plaster that had been sent via the train ferry- as the load hadn't been wrapped or secured, only a minority of the sacks were still on their pallets.

Where at Hither Green was the Continental Freight Depot?

[jcb 3c]

Hither Green looks a bit empty to me as well FC

forgot these for the list-

 

Shiny Thornycroft

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16054433@N02/4385214393/

distant bedford

[The Stationmaster]

Interesting picture Arthur, not one I have seen before. Is the registration and fleet number clear enough to read on the original please. To me it appears to be TYO395 & 8630 D W but not sure.

Merf.

 

 

And the picture - in case anyone hasn't realised - was actually taken at South Lambeth which was one of the main bases for Western Region 'large' tractors and trailers in the London Division (I think only South Lambeth and possibly Park Royal had that type of trailer on their depot allocation at the time although some of them were officially allocated to Divisional control and regarded as 'pool' trailers.

 

 

[Lyddrail]

Brian,

 

The Freight depot was on the Up side, now Grove Park Up berthing sidings. Road vehicles left straight onto the South Circular. Loved the views of the overhead wires.

 

Cheers.

[PhilJ W]

Hither Green looks a bit empty to me as well FC

forgot these for the list-

 

Shiny Thornycroft

http://www.flickr.co...N02/4385214393/

distant bedford

http://www.flickr.co...N07/4366797222/

 

When I clicked on these it came up with pictures of buses?

[backwaterscotland]

When I clicked on these it came up with pictures of buses?

 

Thornycroft is on the other side of the road to the bus (1st picture), Beford is in the background behind the bus (2nd picture)

 

Andy B)

[jonhall]

Last day of the Swanage branch, but still a Rail Express Parcels van in the carpark

 

http://andrewsheritagetransport.fotopic.net/p68706384.html

 

J

[Merfyn Jones]

Last day of the Swanage branch, but still a Rail Express Parcels van in the carpark

 

J

 

 

I wonder if the driver lived there ? Maybe after the line closed (or even before) the van would have gone each day to the junction (Wareham) or Bournemouth to load up and did collection and delivery in the Swanage area. As this is in the NCL days, I think that is the way things worked.

Merf.

[The Stationmaster]

I wonder if the driver lived there ? Maybe after the line closed (or even before) the van would have gone each day to the junction (Wareham) or Bournemouth to load up and did collection and delivery in the Swanage area. As this is in the NCL days, I think that is the way things worked.

Merf.

 

I don't know how widespread the practice was but it did go on - on the sort of basis you surmise, previously local round and driver still living locally so vehicle parked overnight, especially if there was no much room at the local NCL depot. I think the practice began to be closed down once NCL got a lot tougher with BR over charges and BR retaliated adopted a more official course by charging overnight parking for vehicles left on its premises if the vehicle's round wasn't based there. I can't remember where it was now but we had it at a couple of 'our' stations in the mid '70s - NCL driver leaving his vehicle overnight although it had nothing at all to do with that station so we started charging by knocking the parking fee off our parcels fleet bill.

 

[shipbadger]

I think I'm correct in saying that when the Brtish Transport Commission was set up it was theoretically possible for any branch of the BTC to use the facilities of another. In practice this meant BRS lorries parked in station yards or calling on a local bus garage if mechanical attention was required. In some areas this must have lead to 'custom and practice', something which many will agree is easier to start than to end. Locally to me buses were still being left in the station yard long after both rail and road were hived of to the private sector. Only when the people who had houses backing onto the yard collectively purchased it and erected a fence was a new home for the buses found.

 

Tony Comber

[Merfyn Jones]

This came my way via flikr, a Ford Thames Trader with a Taylor Jumbo crane (a bit missing)

B R had a number of these back in crimson & cream days. I am sure this is one of them because on the door looks like a NCL logo.

Merf.

[Merfyn Jones]

New from the Oxford stable.

Scammell Scarab with horsebox trailer. The Scarab MLF785 was new to the Eastern Region in 1951, transfered to the London Midland in 1954 and given the fleet number 684 SG M in the service vehicle series. The trailer, 8698 GT3X M, I have only ever come across this one (although the LMS had a similar one) has a drop down tail gate to act as a ramp for the horse. I am assuming this would have been used to move railway horses around. Any further information would be apreciated.

The Oxford model.

The picture that they used. From my collection, probably a B R original.

[jcb 3c]

Like the picture of the Thames Trader crane Merf ,looks identical to the GPO'S version-

http://www.britishtelephones.com/vehicles/cranes/008.htm

 

Do you know where they used them ?

[PhilJ W]

This came my way via flikr, a Ford Thames Trader with a Taylor Jumbo crane (a bit missing)

B R had a number of these back in crimson & cream days. I am sure this is one of them because on the door looks like a NCL logo.

http://www.flickr.co...84/in/contacts/

Merf.

This is actually ex GPO. The cranes were 'second hand' and were originally fitted to ex-army Morris-Commercial 4X4 chassis. About 1968/69 I worked for the GPO maintaining vehicle records and one of my first tasks was dealing with the paperwork for the disposal of one of the old cranes and its replacement. As I recall because of the nature of the work performed by these vehicles mileage was not recorded but their use was measured in engine hours. Their main duty was loading and unloading cable drums and they very rarely ventured outside of the depot.

[Merfyn Jones]

This is actually ex GPO. The cranes were 'second hand' and were originally fitted to ex-army Morris-Commercial 4X4 chassis. About 1968/69 I worked for the GPO maintaining vehicle records and one of my first tasks was dealing with the paperwork for the disposal of one of the old cranes and its replacement. As I recall because of the nature of the work performed by these vehicles mileage was not recorded but their use was measured in engine hours. Their main duty was loading and unloading cable drums and they very rarely ventured outside of the depot.

 

My 2 pictures look identical to the GPO one, that will help with a model.

The first is at Stoke on Trent from a B R Magazine of May 1963 and the second is a small part of a shot in a magazine which I think was Liverpool. My feeling about the yellow one in the scrapyard is that the cab door seems to have the remains of a NCL sticker, or is the old eyesight making me think what I want it to !

I looked in a book on GPO vehicles and it contained an identical crane on a Morris FFK chassis (1960), so it was probably a standard model in the Taylor range.

[jcb 3c]

Nice pics Merf, can't you persuade Oxford to model one of these ? Mind you a marriage beteween the Matchbox Taylor Jumbo and a Base Toys Trader might not be too far out.

Phil , the Taylor cranes i've seen on Morris 4x4s were different, a non slewing type which must have been a pain to manoevre and very wearing on king pins !

 

http://www.britishtelephones.com/vehicles/cranes/007.htm

[Invicta]

New from the Oxford stable.

 

 

Talking of new (or forthcoming) Oxfords, there are a couple of BR Fire tenders on the way, one based on a Land Rover, the other a Scammell (MH rather than Scarab I think)

 

http://www.modelenium.co.uk/models/BRITISH-RAIL-LAND-ROVER-88-FIRE-TENDER--76LAN188015.aspx

 

Assuming that they're based on actual vehicles used by BR, what's the story behind these?

[backwaterscotland]

My feeling about the yellow one in the scrapyard is that the cab door seems to have the remains of a NCL sticker, or is the old eyesight making me think what I want it to !

 

 

I downloaded the largest version of the picture and zoomed in on just the door and I'm not convinced it is NCL - looks to read POS...... something?

 

 

Andy B)

[wamwig]

I downloaded the largest version of the picture and zoomed in on just the door and I'm not convinced it is NCL - looks to read POS...... something?

 

 

Andy B)

 

Looks suspiciously like POST OFFICE?

 

WW

[Fat Controller]

I downloaded the largest version of the picture and zoomed in on just the door and I'm not convinced it is NCL - looks to read POS...... something?

 

 

Andy B)

Post Office Supplies:- they used to supply everything from stationery to telephone exchanges. There was a depot near Stone (Mill Meece, or somewhere near), in Staffordshire, where I recollect there was also a training facility. In latter years, they were big users of Seddon-Atkinson artics.

The 'Stoke' picture of Merfyn's is taken at the former Full Loads Terminal at Longport- I worked there for a while, back in 1980. The 'building' was roofed, but open at the ends, and with sides that only came down to wagon floor level- freezing in midwinter..

[Merfyn Jones]

Talking of new (or forthcoming) Oxfords, there are a couple of BR Fire tenders on the way, one based on a Land Rover, the other a Scammell (MH rather than Scarab I think)

 

Assuming that they're based on actual vehicles used by BR, what's the story behind these?

 

 

The Land Rover Series 1 was Western Region 800 W based at Paddington, which has already been done in 1-43 and very nice too.

The Scammell MH is CGK912, 33461 W based at one time at Marylebone goods.

Merf.

[PhilJ W]

Many industrial premises had there own fire engines especially of course where there was hazardous processes and materials. It was often the case were the site was only accessible by the smallest and most maneuverable of vehicles. There are several such vehicles in preservation today based on small cars (Standard 9, Morris Minor.) I recall one even based on a Reliant 3 wheel van. The Scammel was a wartime development when there was a greater need for such appliances.

[Invicta]

Many industrial premises had there own fire engines especially of course where there was hazardous processes and materials. It was often the case were the site was only accessible by the smallest and most maneuverable of vehicles. There are several such vehicles in preservation today based on small cars (Standard 9, Morris Minor.) I recall one even based on a Reliant 3 wheel van. The Scammel was a wartime development when there was a greater need for such appliances.

 

Yes, the BMC/British Leyland car factories had at least one Morris Minor-based fire tender..

http://www.flickr.co...nut/4362863050/

 

...and straying off-topic a bit further, it wasn't just industrial users who had small fire tenders for use in confined and inacessible sites- in the 60's, Newcastle apparently experimented with a couple of small Leyland 'precinct tenders' intended for use in shopping precincts etc

http://www.fireambulance.f9.co.uk/kvk694d.jpg

 

http://www.fireambul...9.co.uk/p16.htm

Going back to the 'scheduled' topic, bearing in mind the number of large goods depots, major stations etc, I'm assuming that BR must have had a reasonable number of fire tenders, similar to the Landie and Scammell examples mentioned so far. Were these fairly standard designs used right across BR, or were there a variety of them on different chassis, regional variations etc?