Compostez votre billet

[John_Hughes]

Can anyone explain to me just what the Composez Votre Billet business is at stations in France and some other countries?

 

Why does anyone have to get a stamp on their ticket just to show that they've turned up at the station? Or am I missing the point of the whole thing?

 

[eastwestdivide]

Are the tickets valid for more than just the day of travel, so "composting" prevents anyone from avoiding the inspection on train and re-using it?

 

I'm sure I could phrase that better.

[Fat Controller]

Can anyone explain to me just what the Composez Votre Billet business is at stations in France and some other countries?

 

Why does anyone have to get a stamp on their ticket just to show that they've turned up at the station? Or am I missing the point of the whole thing?

It's to stop you using your ticket more than once; the machine stamps the date and time on the back. It has to be stamped before you board; if, for some reason, you're unable to do this, find the 'controleur' (gripper) or chef-de-train (guard) as soon as you can after boarding, and present the ticket to them. Failure to do so could lead to a hefty surcharge, and the travelling 'grippers' (who hunt in packs) are not known for flexibility or intrapersonal skills.

[phil-b259]

Can anyone explain to me just what the Composez Votre Billet business is at stations in France and some other countries?

 

Why does anyone have to get a stamp on their ticket just to show that they've turned up at the station? Or am I missing the point of the whole thing?

 

I think the reasoning behind it is that traditionally tickets were not date stamped at time of issue and thus a inspector would have no way of knowing whether it was a fresh ticket or simply one being reused (having not been checked and stamped by an inspector previously).

 

This differs from UK practice which has allways had the date of issue / validity printed on the ticket when it is issued and therefore requires no further validation / stamping before it can be used but does mean you have to know when you wish to travel.

 

As to why French and some other European railways have not ditched the validating business - well if your domestic population is used to doing things that way, why change the system and confuse them just to suit international travellers. Mind you its a bit difficult to physically validate a e-ticket so things might change in future as more travel is done via electronic tickets / contactless payment / ITSO cards, etc

[Metr0Land]

Not sure if it's changed but I had a bit of a problem in the Dresden area 1995.   They had one of these new fangled ticket machines and I bought a local ticket which of course had date/time/price/journey printed on it.  On boarding the train the gripper wouldn't accept the fact that it was valid because I hadn't stuffed it in the other machine also.  I pretended I could hardly understand his German and he gave up in the end, but it did seem to be taking deutsche ordnung to extreme lengths.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

He may have been correct of course, no instruction having been received exempting such tickets from the validating stamp...

 

I once had to sort out an inexplicable shortage of some critical spare parts in Germany. There were sufficient physically in the distribution centre, but the centre manager had refused to book them into stock. The product descriptions read 'box printed with part number', and yet these boxes came with the part number on an adhesive label, some of which were peeling at the corners (a 'cost down' to enable fewer box casings to be stocked). An amendment to 'box printed or labelled with part number' fixed it. Ordnung is as Ordnung unflinchingly does.

[John_Hughes]

Thanks for the replies so far - though I'm not sure that it makes any more sense to me now than it did before!

 

A combined travel / reservation ticket such as the one I'm now looking at shows the date and time of departure and of arrival, as well as the date of issue, together with coach and seat number; having the ticket stamped at the departure point adds absolutely nothing to the security of the process at all. Given the fact that the stamping machines aren't particularly reliable and regularly break down, the whole business seems designed - if that's the word - to create unnecessary hassle.

 

So delightfully French, in other words!  ;-)

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for the replies so far - though I'm not sure that it makes any more sense to me now than it did before!

 

A combined travel / reservation ticket such as the one I'm now looking at shows the date and time of departure and of arrival, as well as the date of issue, together with coach and seat number; having the ticket stamped at the departure point adds absolutely nothing to the security of the process at all. Given the fact that the stamping machines aren't particularly reliable and regularly break down, the whole business seems designed - if that's the word - to create unnecessary hassle.

 

So delightfully French, in other words!  ;-)

It does at least prove that you joined the train at the place you were supposed to board it.

[Reorte]

That caused me a bit of confusion the one time I've used the train in France. The other one was the choice of tickets - "Allez", "Retour" and "Allez / Retour". Never did work that one out (I may have ended up bying one way tickets both out and back to be safe, it was only a short journey). The local station also seemed to have platforms A, B, and 8 if I remember rightly.

[Edwin_m]

Another potential gotcha is that certain Paris area tickets require a name to be written on them to be valid.  Fortunately I wasn't inspected during the five hours or so I was travelling with mine before I realised! 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Thanks for the replies so far - though I'm not sure that it makes any more sense to me now than it did before!

 

A combined travel / reservation ticket such as the one I'm now looking at shows the date and time of departure and of arrival, as well as the date of issue, together with coach and seat number; having the ticket stamped at the departure point adds absolutely nothing to the security of the process at all. Given the fact that the stamping machines aren't particularly reliable and regularly break down, the whole business seems designed - if that's the word - to create unnecessary hassle.

 

So delightfully French, in other words!  ;-)

 

In most cases, were you to miss the train that you are reserved on, the ticket would still be valid for travel or refund. So stamping the ticket is necessary to prevent multi-use.

[pescador]

As stated above, widely required throughout mainland Europe.  In case of doubt, validate first and ponder the need, second.  

 

In France , a single ticket is a billet simple and a return a billet d'aller et retour . Be sure the ticket office is clear as to what you want ; alas there are still a few French fonctionnaires who delight in deliberately failing to understand you - although to be fair, they like to annoy the natives as well...

[Focalplane]

These days the "composteur" is not universally used by travelers for several reasons.  First, a lot of people simply don't bother in the rush to get onto the correct platform.  Second, if you have an SNCF fidelity card, that may be your ticket and will be checked by the chef de train against your reservation.  Third, printing tickets at home is also an option these days and they will not fit into the composteur.

 

If I have a traditional ticket I usually remember to get it validated on departure, but I can think of at least one occasion when I didn't and there was no problem with the chef de train.  On that occasion I drove into Narbonne station parking as the TGV to Paris was arriving.  I made it onto the train but my heart did not calm down until we arrived at the next station, Béziers!

 

Incidentally, on TGVs traveling beyond Montpellier to Perpignan there is very rarely a check by the chef de train.  From Perpignan to Paris the most likely segment to be checked will be after Nimes when the train is non-stop to Paris.  Not that I am recommending travel without a ticket, SNCF police can be quite rough on passengers.

 

Last year I traveled on a senior ticket but left my senior card at home.  Big mistake, it cost me an on the spot €92 fine.

[Fat Controller]

I picked up this article on Google.fr today:-

http://www.lefigaro.fr/secteur/high-tech/2014/10/24/01007-20141024ARTFIG00100-la-sncf-equipe-ses-controleurs-de-google-glass.php

It would seem to answer some of the questions about reading newer forms of ticketing.

[unklian]

I thought the main reason for the composting method was to make sure multi use tickets were logged/marked for each usage. Like the Oyster cards on London Transport. The German railways used to have tickets with blank spaces at the ends of the tickets on both sides which you could stamp up to four times in the composter, as long as you put it in a different way round each time.  I just had some fun with a similiar but electronic ticket in Oporto, because there is nothing to show how many times you have used the ticket. All you have is the beep from the electronic composter to tell you you can travel OK.

[BR60103]

Decades ago, we travelled in France. I bought the tickets and got 2 small ones for the turnstiles and a computer card. While we were waiting for the train, I wondered about the computer card and went back to the ticketer.  He said something about putting it in the orange box. I assumed it was some sort of survey thing and the orange box would be where we exited.  (It doesn't always pay to be able to speak good French).  On the train, two inspectors came by and asked for it.  They told me then, in much slower French, what I should have donw but they punched the ticket and let us go -- obviously we had no dishonest intentions.

We didn't get a computer card on the return trip.

GO Transit used to issue 2 and 10 ride tickets that had to be stamped before each trip. The 10 ride could tell where the previous stamping was.

We just used the Hudson-Bergen tram in New Jersey and we bought single ride tickets that were good for 2 hours after being stamped.

 

 

So composter has nothing to do with recycling?

[Fat Controller]

Decades ago, we travelled in France. I bought the tickets and got 2 small ones for the turnstiles and a computer card. While we were waiting for the train, I wondered about the computer card and went back to the ticketer.  He said something about putting it in the orange box. I assumed it was some sort of survey thing and the orange box would be where we exited.  (It doesn't always pay to be able to speak good French).  On the train, two inspectors came by and asked for it.  They told me then, in much slower French, what I should have donw but they punched the ticket and let us go -- obviously we had no dishonest intentions.

We didn't get a computer card on the return trip.

GO Transit used to issue 2 and 10 ride tickets that had to be stamped before each trip. The 10 ride could tell where the previous stamping was.

We just used the Hudson-Bergen tram in New Jersey and we bought single ride tickets that were good for 2 hours after being stamped.

 

 

So composter has nothing to do with recycling?

' Composter' is what is called a 'faux-amie' or 'false friend'; a similar or identical word having a different meaning in two languages. The tickets do compost, in the English sense, apart from the magnetic strip...

I forget where it was, or in which country, but I remember having one of the 'Edmondson' style tickets which had so many bits taken out of it by 'grippers' over the course of a day that it was virtually indecipherable.

[Focalplane]

I have found SNCF booking office staff to be friendly and helpful once you get to the front of the line - if only the lines weren't so long!  But it is very rare that anyone speaks any English.  One exception I can think of is Lille Europe.

 

The yoyages-sncf site is also, I find, a lot easier to use than equivalent sites in the UK.  So far, only Chiltern Railways compares favorably and that may be due to their German ownership.  I haven't used First Great Western for 18 months because their website was so confusing (it may have improved since then).

 

Another point in SNCF's favor.  If you buy a ticket on line they will mail it to you, post free, by first class (prioritaire) mail.  You can also collect it at a machine at your station of choice or at the booking office if you don't have a chip and pin card.  Other options for residents include the Voyageur card as mentioned above.

[Andy Hayter]

I have found SNCF booking office staff to be friendly and helpful once you get to the front of the line - if only the lines weren't so long!  But it is very rare that anyone speaks any English.  One exception I can think of is Lille Europe.

I agree, but I wonder how many UK booking offices have staff who speak anything but English.

 

The yoyages-sncf site is also, I find, a lot easier to use than equivalent sites in the UK.  So far, only Chiltern Railways compares favorably and that may be due to their German ownership.  I haven't used First Great Western for 18 months because their website was so confusing (it may have improved since then).

I cannot compare with UK sites but I have found the SNCF sites dire compared with www.bahn.de - where I was truly spoiled.

One thing I do dislike about SNCF's site is its ability to suggest trains and routes that are not optimum. On a number of occasions it has failed to find the direct Lyon Bordeaux train across the Central Massif and instead has suggested more expensive ( and hardly quicker) TGV services via Montpellier or worse Paris. Ditto a local service from Tain L'Hermitage to Lyon, where the local train was ignored in favour of a train to Valence Ville, then to Grenoble in time (lots of time) to catch the TGV to Lyon. Time point to point over 3 hours (55 minutes direct) and price 3 times the standard.

I have also heard that it ignors the direct Cleremont Ferrand - Nimes trains (so called express but hardly worthy of the name) for a TEOZ to Paris and TGV to Nimes.

 

 

Another point in SNCF's favor.  If you buy a ticket on line they will mail it to you, post free, by first class (prioritaire) mail.  You can also collect it at a machine at your station of choice or at the booking office if you don't have a chip and pin card.  Other options for residents include the Voyageur card as mentioned above.

They will only mail to a French address and the machine only reads French bank cards - as I found to my cost at 6am at Valence Ville to catch the TGV to St. Exupery at 6:15. Ticket office opened at 6:30 and the machine refused to accept the (German) card against which the ticket had been paid. So no allocated seat on the TGV and no ticket. Sat in the bar car waiting for the SNCF Stazi to arrive, but with only 29 minute journey, I got away with it.

[Focalplane]

I agree, but I wonder how many UK booking offices have staff who speak anything but English.

 

I cannot compare with UK sites but I have found the SNCF sites dire compared with www.bahn.de - where I was truly spoiled.

One thing I do dislike about SNCF's site is its ability to suggest trains and routes that are not optimum. On a number of occasions it has failed to find the direct Lyon Bordeaux train across the Central Massif and instead has suggested more expensive ( and hardly quicker) TGV services via Montpellier or worse Paris. Ditto a local service from Tain L'Hermitage to Lyon, where the local train was ignored in favour of a train to Valence Ville, then to Grenoble in time (lots of time) to catch the TGV to Lyon. Time point to point over 3 hours (55 minutes direct) and price 3 times the standard.

I have also heard that it ignors the direct Cleremont Ferrand - Nimes trains (so called express but hardly worthy of the name) for a TEOZ to Paris and TGV to Nimes.

 

 

They will only mail to a French address and the machine only reads French bank cards - as I found to my cost at 6am at Valence Ville to catch the TGV to St. Exupery at 6:15. Ticket office opened at 6:30 and the machine refused to accept the (German) card against which the ticket had been paid. So no allocated seat on the TGV and no ticket. Sat in the bar car waiting for the SNCF Stazi to arrive, but with only 29 minute journey, I got away with it.

Good replies!

 

It is true they stress the TGV services, but can you really blame them?  Some of those regional services are not very reliable, for example Clermont to Millau/Béziers requires an autobus transfer to avoid the Viaduc de Garabit.

 

As to the credit card limitations at the yellow kiosks/gichets, I have a French chip and pin card so have not had your problem.  France has very strict rules for its banks concerning additional charges for using cards, etc., which may explain the difference.  As an example, French businesses and banks cannot add a "fee" for using a credit card.  Another UK rip-off, in my opinion.  So may be the issuing bank caused the problem, not SNCF?

[Andy Hayter]

The card thing is very much SNCF. No charges for a German card and no charges for use in another country because both are Eurozone. In any case, the ticket had already been bought and paid for.

 

This was confirmed by a booking hall member of staff on another journey where the same thing happened. She didn't explain why, but just that the machines only recognise French CBs.

[Foulounoux]

France is slowly realising that the CB monopoly on these machines is ending. Our local super u self service petrol pump finally started accepting MasterCard and visa this year

 

Colin

[John_Hughes]

France is slowly realising that the CB monopoly on these machines is ending. Our local super u self service petrol pump finally started accepting MasterCard and visa this year

 

Colin

 

Interesting! I filled up at a Super U self-serve just last week and found my UK Visa card was instantly rejected, and of course the kiosk was deserted. Luckily my brother-in-law came to my rescue!

[Focalplane]

Foreigners visiting the UK can have similar problems with various TOCs. I have missed trains at Paddington because I could not buy a ticket at a machine. I still have a US bank account and its VISA card is no longer accepted by most British online retailers without going to an intermediate referral company which expects to see a UK postal code on the billing address. A call to the retailer usually sorts this out.

 

In many ways, though, if you are French and live in France the banking system does a good job! I realize this does not help visitors very much.

[ianp]

Not so. I travelled on the Clermont-Ferrand to Beziers service this May and there is currently one train a day, in each direction, along the whole route with no buses needed at any point. The Garabit viaduct looked very nice from the window of  my one carriage and very modern autorail.