Oxfordrail - Adams Radial

[stewartingram]

They were new at producing model road vehicles when they started (why does everyone call them diecasts when they are plastic moulds....?), but they seem to manage ok.

 

Stewart

[Loconuts]

Neither had Rovex until M&S commissioned a train set, Palitoy before they launched Mainline and Airfix had little before starting their Railway System - the last two whilst no longer with us marked a big step change in the detail and accuracy of OO stock and the former is today what we call Hornby.

Not quite true, have you ever seen that first Rovex train set, it was abysmal using roller pickups and plastic moulded body which warped. The present Hornby company has no connection with the original Triang company or any with Hornby (the Binns Road outfit), their products went to Wrenn.  The only reason Triang survived is they produced models that ran on 2 rail and their products were cheaper than Hornby, like Hornby they went bust and ended up with a management buy out  That buy out went bust and the present ownership is a bank or an investment company I believe.

Airfix was in the model railway market in the early sixties.  With wagon and building kits, they also took over the kitmaster range but never produced a large number of the kitmaster models as the moulds were worn out.  Dapol I believe produce a small amount of the old Airfix kits.

Mainline and Airfix were the first to the market with the chinese made RTR, however they flooded the market with models to try and make a profit during the recession of the1980's.  Also the running qualities of the models was a bit hit or miss, but they were in the right direction for being to scale and well detailed.

A lot of the above is from memory, but I got out of the 4mm scene in the mid 70's and into 7mm so lost touch with what was going on in the smaller scales.

It is so much easier to build a layout today in 4mm scale than it was in the 60's.

[bigherb]

They were new at producing model road vehicles when they started (why does everyone call them diecasts when they are plastic moulds....?), but they seem to manage ok.

 

Stewart

Not quite the Corgi Swansea plant was closed by Mattel moving production to China. Oxford Diecast a new company bought the Swansea plant or part of the plant and carried on making die cast models initially mainly for the tourist market and jobbing die cast parts for other industries.

Not sure what you mean by plastic moulds? Oxford Diecast models have metal bodies.

Edited October 26, 2014 by bigherb

[petee19]

Not quite the Corgi Swansea plant was closed by Mattel moving production to China. Oxford Diecast a new company bought the Swansea plant or part of the plant and carried on making die cast models initially mainly for the tourist market and jobbing die cast parts for other industries.

Not sure what you mean by plastic moulds? Oxford Diecast models have metal bodies.

Oxford Diecast are now using injection moulding for some main parts on some of their models,the coaches released over the last 12 months have a plastic upper body part,and I think some of the lorry models also.

[stewartingram]

Every Oxford model I have taken apart (and I have over 500 vehicles on my database, though not all are Oxford!) has had a plastic body.

 

Stewart

[gelboy45]

Dai Castt eh, what's he up too in Oxford now? Mixing with Count Rivett I bet.....

 

Gerry

[Dunsignalling]

Every Oxford model I have taken apart (and I have over 500 vehicles on my database, though not all are Oxford!) has had a plastic body.

 

Stewart

I've just taken a few of the recent releases apart and they are made up as follows:

 

Austin ATV (RAF), Austin Healey 3000, Jensen Interceptor: main body shell on each is definitely metal; underside, interior and (of course) glazing is plastic.

 

Commer Commando split-deck bus (RAF) Lower body shell/bonnet in metal, everything else plastic, including the upper body.

 

I believe this to be the general practice in the industry, not just at Oxford Diecast. Many bus models from other sources have the whole body shell in metal though some double deckers have plastic spacers between the upper and lower sections, presumably to make painting easier.

 

Even the original Dinky Toys weren't ALL diecast as the bases were pressed steel or tinplate.

 

John

[mow]

Dai Castt eh, what's he up too in Oxford now? Mixing with Count Rivett I bet.....

 

Gerry

As Dame Edna would say: He is a silly Count.

[bigherb]

Every Oxford model I have taken apart (and I have over 500 vehicles on my database, though not all are Oxford!) has had a plastic body.

 

Stewart

All the 54 Oxford Diecast models I have are diecast bodies with plastic fittings like these, which are definatly diecast.

 

[BernardTPM]

The present Hornby company has no connection with the original Triang company

They still have the same factory in Margate (I'll grant they don't actually make much there now) and their catalogues are still numbered in the series started by Triang. Their models are still prefixed 'R'. They still use the same type of coupling and some of the Triang bodies are still in production. Ownership may have changed but there is still a clear lineage.

[Porcy Mane]

The Oxford Die cast BMC Special Tuning Transporter and Mobile training unit have bodies of injection moulded clear plastic. (acrylic?)

The main paint finish is applied to the inside surface.

Lovely model but I have a few reservations about the plonk on grill. I was once quite intimate with the competitions dept/special tuning transporter.

 

Porcy

[adrianbs]

Hi  All     I certainly hope that Oxford get off to a better start than Rovex,  Airfix/GMR  and Palitoy/Mainline,  Rovex were taken over by Lines Bros (Tri-ang) almost immediately and were incorporated with the Trackmaster range of wagons but not the, quite accurate but clockwork,  LNER  N2 which seems to have survived only to use up stocks.  A pity really, as a decent electric mech, and the key hole  filled in would have put it far ahead of the HO scale Hornby Dublo model.  Airfix, Mainline and Lima all fought each other into disaster by not having quality mechs and duplicating each other and Hornby.  Hornby sat back, spent very little money on new tooling, and picked up the pieces  when the dust settled..

 

        If Oxford come in with a whole range of new products  by making a really excellent job of their  "Whatever it is"  they will put a great deal of financial pressure on some of the other combatants already trying to grab a share of a limited amount of spending money.  Something will have to give, indeed something may have to give even without their entry when you start totting up all the announced projects that can be found on various sites.  Quite what would happen to some people's bank accounts if many of these preordered models all arrived at the same time one can only speculate but it seems likely that many preorders would have to be cancelled causing serious problems for the manufacturers.

                  

         Regards all  adrianbs

Edited October 27, 2014 by adrianbs

[Ceptic]

Oxford Diecast are now using injection moulding for some main parts on some of their models,the coaches released over the last 12 months have a plastic upper body part,and I think some of the lorry models also.

Judging by the recently released models of the Leyland Royal Tiger  http://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/76/76LRT002A%20Leyland%20Royal%20Tiger%20Southdown.html  (Lower bodywork is diecast. Chassis, wheels, tyres are plastic, Join is just below the window line).

 

And the Leyland / Weymann Fanfare 

http://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/76/76WFL001%20Weymann%20Fanfare%20Southdown%20Leyland.html

(As above but the joint here is lower, halfway across the wheel arches).

 

In both models, the joint is infinitesimal, i.e it can hardly be seen (Unlike EFE or OOC) 

 

 Oxford Diecast have, certainly, mastered the art of masking. painting and Tampo printing of clear plastic mouldings.

In saying this, I might add that, It may pay them to concentrate their model railway efforts into producing coaching stock with non-prismatic 'flush' windows, rather than locos.

 

There again, what do I know ?

Edited October 27, 2014 by Ceptic

[The Stationmaster]

Hi  All    

 

        If Oxford come in with a whole range of new products  by making a really excellent job of their  "Whatever it is"  they will put a great deal of financial pressure on some of the other combatants already trying to grab a share of a limited amount of spending money.  Something will have to give, indeed something may have to give even without their entry when you start totting up all the announced projects that can be found on various sites.  Quite what would happen to some people's bank accounts if many of these preordered models all arrived at the same time one can only speculate but it seems likely that many preorders would have to be cancelled causing serious problems for the manufacturers.

                  

         Regards all  adrianbs

But that is looking at it from the viewpoint of a collector led market where folk buy one of everything just because it happens to be there and looks pretty.  I reckon the past 5 or 6 years have already trashed much of that particular market and most people have become far more selective with their buying albeit with occasional exceptions (I suspect the Hornby P2 being one such because of its price as much as anything else).  But that apart LNERophobes will buy relevant LNER outline engines, we GWRnutters will buy to suit our 'habit' as will the Southernfiends and LMSdisciples and so on narrowing down probably along various regional (in the non-railway sense and even district interests).  Even within that sort of approach there will remain selective buying, for example the GWR 47XX is much talked about/wished for but it does interest me in the slightest from a practical model railway operating point of view.

 

Thinking of just what I now is on the go at present there is little beyond the Kernow 1361 saddle tanks and someone or other's 'King' to interest me and i bet I'm far from alone in buying selectively (ok so I do collect NRM and Steam Exclusives but they are also a way of supporting the museums) but I don't care at all about garratts or P2s or most of the diesel classes.  And to be honest I haven't got the least interest in an Adams radial, like many other folk - apart from potential impact on manufacturers/commissioners and the loss of other potential subjects I don't care how many different people make one because I wouldn't be buying any of them.

 

The market has now very much developed into niches, it has progressed to offering a much wider amount of choice in r-t-r and what that mainly means is that although the overall total has shrunk (for totally different reasons) there are a lot of niche markets out there and they can run alongside each other comfortably as long as they don't think high volumes are the road to riches.

[adrianbs]

Hi  Ceptic    Absolutely agree about coaching stock, various firms like PC models,  Brackenborough, ABS models, Southern Pride, etc have moved in that direction but the big snag was that Tampo printing was not in use for models at that early date.  Beaver products got part way there with clear injection moulded body shells with clear screen printed vinyl sheet overlays but none of the screen printers they knew could screen print directly onto the mouldings themselves which brought that development to an end.   Grafar were the first in this country to tampo print coach models but were not, I think, printing on clear sides with moulded detail.

 

    Tampo printing has come a long way now and the fineness of lines and lettering is pretty much all one could ask as well as near perfect registration which was always a problem with screen printing.  Screen prints were also limited by the mesh size relative to the viscosity of the inks to obtain opacity. This prevented line thicknesses below a certain level and then COHSE stepped in and banned many of the inks and solvents being used which created havoc.

 

     No one in the UK has yet produced fully lined panelled coaches but Kernow has the gate stock planned although that will be much simpler than say GWR early liveries and other similar designs, especially where lining is on the panels and the beading as well,  like LSWR etc.  It will come, but it will be a brave manufacturer who invests in all the printing plates as well as the tooling costs for the body shells and with chinese labour costs escalating,  mass produced coaches will not be cheap.  Some limited edition very expensive models are available but those are made more in dozens than thousands.

         

      Perhaps Oxford will produce LSWR coaches to go with the Radial if that is what is issued !!.     Regards all  adrianbs

[railroadbill]

Adrianbs wrote:    < Rovex were taken over by Lines Bros (Tri-ang) almost immediately and were incorporated with the Trackmaster range of wagons but not the, quite accurate but clockwork,  LNER  N2 which seems to have survived only to use up stocks.  A pity really, as a decent electric mech, and the key hole  filled in would have put it far ahead of the HO scale Hornby Dublo model.  >

 

 

      

Hi Adrian,   I've come across your gentle trolling from time to time in various threads, with wry amusement. However, I cannot really let your statement about  the Hornby Dublo N2 pass unchallenged. 

 

 

 

Here is a picture of a die cast (as loco  models should of course be) Hornby Dublo 3 rail N2 locomotive. It is Norah the N2. It is complete with box (very important, that).  Comparing it with the 4mm to 1'  drawing it is resting on, the height of the loco  is correct, the wheel base is right, it's almost the right length. Just needs the the back of the bunker  rounded and the smokebox door to be of a bigger radius.   For what is actually a pre-war design it's not so bad.

 

The box clearly states that the model is 00.  It's not 00/H0 like those Tri-ang boys have, the ones that sit at the back of the class with their plastic trains and their magnethesion. Oh, no!    And certainly cannot be described as HO!!!

 

So please leave Norah the N2 alone. I mean, she's only, er, 7 years or so younger than me so really deserves her rest. We've been together such a long time.

 

With kindest regards,

Bill

 

Edited October 27, 2014 by railroadbill

[Ceptic]

Hi adrianbs.

 

It's good to hear from the voice of experience.

 

Without going too far off topic, the little experience I've had (years ago), involved the use of PC Models' colour printed Mk.1 coach sides on clear sheet and latterly those of Southern Pride's Bulleids. Both resulted in sides which looked far too 'flat'. (In those days, you had grab at what you could get)

 

What set me on my present course of thinking, was a comment regarding Dapol's N guage Low window Maunsell coaches, stating that it would prove too difficult to mould High window stock, given that the body / window / roof join would be too 'weak'.

 

Now,...What if ?...as you say,...a complete coach / roof body were moulded in clear plastic, painted, printed, with the exterior detail added once the paint had dried.

Surely, there wouldn't be any extra process in the manufacture, than what's involved at present. ?

 

All the best,

Ceptic.

[BernardTPM]

Grafar were the first in this country to tampo print coach models but were not, I think, printing on clear sides with moulded detail.

They did initially - the first two N gauge Mk.1 coaches they produced back in 1980 (SK & BCK) had raised frames round the windows (these were the original type with separate strips for the window area only rather than all-clear bodies). These two were the only ones they did like that though and subsequent models, starting with the RMB, only had raised marks for the door lines and handles, not the window frames. The construction was very similar to the Hornby 'shorty' Mk.3 that appeared a few years earlier ('77 I think). Again the original coaches had raised frames, but when they altered the standard trailers to an eight window pattern they didn't bother moulding frames (though they had already done so for their TRUB).

Certainly there were occasions when there were unprinted parts round the raised frames on the Farish Mk.1s, so that might be why they dropped them quite quickly.

[phil gollin]

.

.........  But that apart LNERophobes will buy relevant LNER outline engines, ...............

.

 

LNER-ophiles, I would hope.

 

.

[railroadbill]

Went to local model shop today looking for plastic sheets of roof tiles and paving stones.  Slaters and Wills still going strong. While there I bought an oo Oxford diecast motorcycle combination. Looks good, good as their other vehicles I've got, the sidecar is plastic and the chassis/motor bike is cast metal (as far as I can make out). So they can certainly make some authentic looking, detailed models, which imho is promising for future railway models.

Since they are made in China,  presumably the final quality will be as good as the factory making them?

[Steve-e]

They have updated the webpage at  http://www.oxfordrail.com/ to this

 

His past is hidden from me now.
But be quite clear I make this vow.
To find the truth of why he went.
Those buried thoughts that he has sent.

 

The steam, the dust, which filled his eyes.
The coal, the sweat, that made him cry.
The heat, the smoke, which made him die.
Oh why, oh why, oh why, oh why...

 

2nd last line Die - reference to Die cast perhaps?

Last line there are 4 Oh's , 4 whys, and 2 words each time 4-4-2 or it could be with the Oh leading 0-4-4 0h - 4Whys - 4 times

 

Dont know any more...

Edited October 27, 2014 by Steve-e

[adrianbs]

Hi  Railroadbill   Oh dear!! it is so embarrassing to get caught out, HOWEVER   If you measure the wheelbase of the drivers you will find it is  57.5mm on the H/D Model  N2s are  9' +7'3" wb  =  16.25Feet x 3.5  (HO Scale )  =  56.9mm  but a 4mm model would be --wait for it !!!   65mm.  The overall length has been adjusted a bit at the back to stretch the length but overall it is still about 5mm short  whilst the cab front to front bufferbeam is about 6mm short.   In fact Hornby Dublo models were made, not to 4mm/ft but totally imperial as all the works drawings at that period show a scale of  5/32" / ft. This original model may have started out not being HO exactly but  more likely 9/64"/ft which is 1:85.3 and subsequent production then went to 5/32" / ft which is actually 1:76.8  instead of  1:76.2 for true 4mm.  I suspect the chassis started out being 9/64" but at some point in development they discovered a similar mech would not fit in the A4 so some adjustments were made to increase the size a bit.  The wheels are also well under size and could have been made larger without shorting on the splashers but work out about right for a 1:85.3 scale model over the flanges.  Trying to catch me out by plonking the model over the  Roche drawing you seem to have forgotten the perspective effect, if you had moved the model nearer the camera you could have made it 7mm/ft  or whatever until the picture went out of focus.  I had a 3 rail one exactly like yours for Xmas having passed the 11+ but in its goods train set.

 

    Ceptic is right about the " Flatness" of printed sides but in N gauge the Beaver sides looked quite good as the coloured ink for the 4 liveries was quite thick and made the windows recessed a bit and that was enhanced by a background base coat of dark grey all over.  The door lines  were produced by leaving gaps in the top coat so the grey was visible and recessed.  The lining was a problem however as the register of the yellow on black of the Maroon coaches was difficult to guarantee and the lines were as thin as the printers could allow without getting misses, a bit like pixillation on low res. digital images.  The scrap rate on the maroon print runs exceeded 50% taking the colour on grey into account as well.  Other printers who were approached would not touch the job and suggested Litho print but the inks are not opaque. The scaled up 4mm versions were easier to print but looked rather flatter and the test run of Green sides to fit Lima "O GAUGE" coaches never went on sale as they did not look good enough. Seems a long time ago now in the late 60s and early 70s.  I have forgotten that Mopok also did printed coach sides whilst ABS models designed the body shells in Vac form plastic and the whitemetal chassis parts.for these 4mm coaches  It is nearly 45 years ago now.

 

    The problem with one piece coach bodies of the type needed is the tumblehome and the Draft angle which makes the sides very thick unless you resort to rather expensive tooling. Beaver N gauge coaches were moulded with one piece clear plastic for the bodies with separate grey moulded roofs to save painting and black chassis which clipped in but the sides were thicker than desired and the very basic moulding machine was not really good enough to give really clear plastic.mouldings. It is possble to produce undercut mouldings but the tools are expensive and complex and may be OK for say Diesel loco bodies but not for coaches selling at lower prices. They used to involve having tapered wedge inserts with slides so that the inside of mould reduced in width to allow extraction, in the past, but there may be other methods used now. 

          Regards all  adrianbs

        

Edited October 27, 2014 by adrianbs

[NickL2008]

Well at least we know its 00 guage railways, I wondered what it was all about as well...

NL

['CHARD]

His past is hidden from me now.
But be quite clear I make this vow.
To find the truth of why he went.
Those buried thoughts that he has sent.

 

The steam, the dust, which filled his eyes.
The coal, the sweat, that made him cry.
The heat, the smoke, which made him die.
Oh why, oh why, oh why, oh why...

 

Does someone already make the Doggerel ballast hopper?

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

His past is hidden from me now.

But be quite clear I make this vow.

To find the truth of why he went.

Those buried thoughts that he has sent.

 

The steam, the dust, which filled his eyes.

The coal, the sweat, that made him cry.

The heat, the smoke, which made him die.

Oh why, oh why, oh why, oh why...

 

Does someone already make the Doggerel ballast hopper?

 

I thought that was a kitbash of a Dogfish body on a Mackerel chassis