G-BOAF Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) Will it actually be produced internally by Oxford Diecast, or will it be in partnership with Bachmann/Kader, Dapol or DJM, and 'branded' as Oxford (as KMRC have done with Dapol/DJM)? Edited November 9, 2014 by G-BOAF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Oxford have their own factory in China so are in a better position than some other better known model railway manufacturers. Thanks Phil--did not appreciate that, Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Thousands of toy / model companies in China mate. More than 50 that produce model railway items that I know of. Some are more experienced than others, but they learn quickly, and although prices are now going ballistic again ( not including. Next years further price rises) they are still cheaper to manufacture ( for now). I don't think Oxford will have a problem getting a factory to produce for them at a price and quality that makes it cost effective to do so. Cheers Dave Dave--I am uncertain as to whether your reply was made with your model enthusiast head on or your business head. In my experience the use of the word "mate" may be construed as a trifle condescending, especially if the latter. That apart my interest in the hobby is concerned with how the future may shape up ref. availability of new/upgraded/even reruns of obviously popular models in a REALISTIC light. Your response indicates that there is ample capacity to produce UK model rail; needs in China but to the layman this does not ring true with the much restricted availability of off the shelf "NON SECOND HAND " produce over recent times. Cheers, Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Dave--I am uncertain as to whether your reply was made with your model enthusiast head on or your business head. In my experience the use of the word "mate" may be construed as a trifle condescending, especially if the latter. That apart my interest in the hobby is concerned with how the future may shape up ref. availability of new/upgraded/even reruns of obviously popular models in a REALISTIC light. Your response indicates that there is ample capacity to produce UK model rail; needs in China but to the layman this does not ring true with the much restricted availability of off the shelf "NON SECOND HAND " produce over recent times. Cheers, Ed Hi Ed, Sorry about that. If you look at lots of my postings, you will see I use 'mate' as a friendly affectation, nothing more. apologies if it's construed wrongly, it wasn't my intention as I think of everyone here as a friend, in a friendly hobby. I'm afraid there is ample capacity in China, It doesn't matter how you cut it, not getting production is down to a number of factors. Firstly if you get a slot and then get bumped by your owners for something more profitable, then that's not your fault and how ever it irks it has to be accepted as there is nothing you can do about it. Secondly, if you didn't read the runes and got lumbered with a closing factory and and up re-sourcing factories, then although it is to start with, your fault, once you have gotten new factories, then your fate is in your hands again. Thirdly, cash flow. We all suffer this, but with rising prices in China, with more on the way in a few months, it affects your position to purchase goods. This isn't the fault of the factory, merely a by product of the situation out there. Fourthly, development. Maybe you are a manufacturer aren't where you would like to be development wise, when your booked slot comes around and cannot sign off on tooling then production. So if you don't own a factory, but book production, then you do stand a chance. But as I said earlier, there is production space in the factories, and in fact some are crying out and pro actively trying for more work. However this all may be moot once CNY is over and we see how many return to work, and that's before the price rises get introduced again and bite hard. I think there is no doubt about it, the writing is on the wall for Chinese production, it's only a matter of time before we see it move like we did all those years ago when everything used to be labelled 'made in Taiwan' on the back. We may, I feel, also see a shrinkage in manufacturers in the UK as the Pie only has so many slices. Not sure my late Sunday night ramblings have helped at all, but rest assured if I needed 3/4 factories tomorrow to make my models I could get them with ease. Cheers and apologies once again, and sorry to OxfordRail for taking up so much space here with my ramblings. Congratulations on your new venture Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2014 Hi Ed, Sorry about that. If you look at lots of my postings, you will see I use 'mate' as a friendly affectation, nothing more. apologies if it's construed wrongly, it wasn't my intention as I think of everyone here as a friend, in a friendly hobby. I'm afraid there is ample capacity in China, It doesn't matter how you cut it, not getting production is down to a number of factors. Firstly if you get a slot and then get bumped by your owners for something more profitable, then that's not your fault and how ever it irks it has to be accepted as there is nothing you can do about it. Secondly, if you didn't read the runes and got lumbered with a closing factory and and up re-sourcing factories, then although it is to start with, your fault, once you have gotten new factories, then your fate is in your hands again. Thirdly, cash flow. We all suffer this, but with rising prices in China, with more on the way in a few months, it affects your position to purchase goods. This isn't the fault of the factory, merely a by product of the situation out there. Fourthly, development. Maybe you are a manufacturer aren't where you would like to be development wise, when your booked slot comes around and cannot sign off on tooling then production. So if you don't own a factory, but book production, then you do stand a chance. But as I said earlier, there is production space in the factories, and in fact some are crying out and pro actively trying for more work. However this all may be moot once CNY is over and we see how many return to work, and that's before the price rises get introduced again and bite hard. I think there is no doubt about it, the writing is on the wall for Chinese production, it's only a matter of time before we see it move like we did all those years ago when everything used to be labelled 'made in Taiwan' on the back. We may, I feel, also see a shrinkage in manufacturers in the UK as the Pie only has so many slices. Not sure my late Sunday night ramblings have helped at all, but rest assured if I needed 3/4 factories tomorrow to make my models I could get them with ease. Cheers and apologies once again, and sorry to OxfordRail for taking up so much space here with my ramblings. Congratulations on your new venture Dave Nice informative post, as usual. Cheers, Mate. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 9, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2014 Dave--I am uncertain as to whether your reply was made with your model enthusiast head on or your business head. In my experience the use of the word "mate" may be construed as a trifle condescending, especially if the latter. That apart my interest in the hobby is concerned with how the future may shape up ref. availability of new/upgraded/even reruns of obviously popular models in a REALISTIC light. Your response indicates that there is ample capacity to produce UK model rail; needs in China but to the layman this does not ring true with the much restricted availability of off the shelf "NON SECOND HAND " produce over recent times. Cheers, Ed As, to my knowledge, some factories in China are going out and deliberately chasing for model railway work (provided they know they will get paid - that seems to be an important point in their looking for work) I'm quite sure that what Dave is saying is correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Dave, nice reply as always buddy! and Ed, we are a friendly site, get used to it mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 10, 2014 Attempting to identify which batches had the smaller wheels has been a bit tricky as Bradley's book on the Adams classes makes no mention of the change as far as I can see. Looking at photos of the locomotives, then the batches with small radial axle wheels were the initial Beyer Peacock batch (with small side tanks), the first Stephenson batch (again small side tanks), the first Dubs batch and the Neilson batch, of which (3)488 is a member. The second Dubs and Stephenson batches had the larger wheels, of which (3)520 and (3)125 were respectively members. So I have to disagree with your assertion, four of the six distinct batches had smaller radial axle wheels. I certainly agree that it is tricky. My own conclusions were evidently premature and based on a narrower range of sources than you have managed to access. This prompts me to ask for a piece of information which I have never been sure of one way or the other. Were some of the Radials built with double slide bars or was it always a later modification? Regards John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Hi All and Dunsignalling, Bradley et al. give various locos with Double slidebars and they don't appear to have been original equipment. The Beyer Peacock batch of 12 Nos 415-426 seem to had been built with single slidebars but a photo of 415 has Double by 1907 and the two locos for the Lyme Regis branch appear to have been so equipped in 1913/4 Nos (0)125 and (0)419 No other mention of double slidebars appears in any of my other literature and no other locos are shown in photos apart from 520 which although not mentioned specifically certainly finished up with double slidebars on the branch after alteration.. Whether other locos were fitted would be very interesting to know. There may well have been some interchange of parts using components from scrapped locos but there seems to have been no general use of the double slidebar design and probably not from new at all. Is it possible there were never more than 2 locos so fitted at any one time ?? There is no mention of the use of Fluted coupling rods either, apart from one photo caption !!! Minefield ?? what minefield ?? Boom !! Regards adrianbs Edited November 10, 2014 by adrianbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Hi PD & SWJR According to "BIG" Bradley the locos you mention being fitted with double slidebars were nearly all withdrawn in 1920?? (1922?) so if they had new slidebars it must have been quite a few year earlier. I don't have "small" Bradley which I assume these details come from and Bradley was not infallible but nevertheless our best overall source. If these other locos were fitted with double slidebars it may well have been at the same time as the 2 branch engines i.e. around 1913/4 although the Dated? photo of 415 in 1907 then becomes something of an enigma as this predates Urie's term of office. There will be many other similar questions I have no doubt. Regards all adrianbs Edited November 10, 2014 by adrianbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) ....I think there is no doubt about it, the writing is on the wall for Chinese production, it's only a matter of time before we see it move like we did all those years ago when everything used to be labelled 'made in Taiwan' on the back..... The interesting thing would be to try to predict where production would move to next. India? Brazil? South Africa? Mauritius? North Korea? Edited November 10, 2014 by Horsetan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Mauritius, St.Kitts, Copa Cabana beach, Fiji, and Antigua are all favourites! ( well in my mind anyway ;-)) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 ...I think there is no doubt about it, the writing is on the wall for Chinese production, it's only a matter of time before we see it move like we did all those years ago when everything used to be labelled 'made in Taiwan' on the back... Grateful for this healthy jolt of realism, in terms of manufacturing the class of goods into which model railways fall. 'Indo-China' has to be a region in with a shout as 'the next place'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Hi PD&SWJR and Adrian, Thanks for the info. I had always made an arithmetical assumption that, because two of the three Lyme Regis survivors had double slide bars, they were fairly typical but probably fitted after 488 was sold on. I will go and write 100 lines "I must not confuse correlation with causation"! We'll probably never know, but I wonder if their fitment to 0125 and 0520 was pure coincidence or a factor in those locos being selected for the Lyme Regis job. John Edited November 10, 2014 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bedding Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 The interesting thing would be to try to predict where production would move to next. India? Brazil? South Africa? Mauritius? North Korea? Binns Road, anyone? PB 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Will it actually be produced internally by Oxford Diecast, or will it be in partnership with Bachmann/Kader, Dapol or DJM, and 'branded' as Oxford (as KMRC have done with Dapol/DJM)? When it comes to commissioning models, Oxford are on the Commissionee side of the relationship like Bachmann and Dapol, not the Commissioner like Kernow, Hattons et al. So far DJM appears to be acting more as in intermediary, sitting between the two... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted November 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 10, 2014 Binns Road, anyone? PB Its all down to labour costs. The MD of Oxford Diecast stated in a magazine interview a few months ago that he would dearly love to produce in the UK but labour costs are ten times those in China and as his compeditors moved production to China he had to follow suit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Hi Dunsignalling, According to RCTS it would appear three locos for the Branch were specifically altered to suit the line with increased bogie swing but it does not say that the slidebars were altered at the same time although there is a degree of inference. The third loco, 521, still retained single slide bars so again the inference could be that the slidebars were not a factor needed for the line and that the other two locos may have already had double slide bars fitted. Bearing in mind the photo date of 1907 for 415 the fitting of new slidebars may have been done at about that time or earlier. The latter photo is a posed official and may be the loco ex-works showing the alterations made to the first one dealt with. PW&SWJR has correctly listed the other locos with Double slidebars as I missed a line in Bradley but there is no mention of when these were modified and it could be read that they had already been changed OR that they were changed after 1913/4. Regards all adrianbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted November 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 10, 2014 When I was doing shows for the club, it was always great fun to let the kids have a go. It was delightful to see them (girls and boys) use DCC (NCE) with just a few instructions about direction and speed. They seem to take to it very naturally. John I have a goddaughter who is 6 and heavily autistic. One of the few things that she can cope with is playing with my trains, she has total grasp of using the NCE powercab. Which is great. What she does not understand the concept of is stopping playing trains! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Grateful for this healthy jolt of realism, in terms of manufacturing the class of goods into which model railways fall. 'Indo-China' has to be a region in with a shout as 'the next place'. Life would be highly interesting if RTR production were to come out of the Kaesong Industrial Region of North Korea..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I am going to adopt your Theory of Model Railway Resource Procurement. Tomorrow, I will pop down to my local Ford Time Machine dealership and procure myself a second-hand (one careful lady owner) Tardis, and go back in time, and prevent myself from ( a ) buying all those kits and ( b ) developing any kind of interest in sausages. I'm aghast. Such an abuse of time travel. Surely you'll pop by Berlin to have a go at Adolf while he's indisposed first? Or at least get ex-works high-res photographs of everything rolling out of Swindow, Wolverhampton and Highbridge? While you're at it some paint samples would be nice, and detailed station photographs showing track layout signalling and structures. I could go on. Edited November 10, 2014 by Ozexpatriate 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Nice informative post, as usual. Cheers, Mate. Rob Dave, Thankyou for your kind response and the time taken for the comprehensive reply. I may well have been a little oversensitive and I wish you well in your business venture. I have read your comments with great interest and it provides a clearer view of the future and the "Chinese capacity"; but as we all know the situation will develop on. Thanks again and best regards, Ed 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) More on topic than my last post (certainly), and many other recent posts on topics as varied as mateship, disruptive technologies and 'made in China'* Has anyone seen Oxford Rail describe the running numbers and livery options that they plan to introduce? (Perhaps I missed it.) They have mentioned the Adams radial tank passing from LSWR - SR - BR ownership but I can't find any indication of what they will offer. I'll make the observation that their website information still seems rather scant for a new product details. Others (I don't want to be rude to Oxford Rail - who have otherwise done an outstanding job of whipping up interest in their announcement - by naming names) have been rather better at telling us precisely what they plan to manufacture. If there isn't any detail available, I'll follow up with their "request for information" link which pops up an email address. * Please don't be offended, this was humourously intended. I'm not the least interested in monitoring thread purity in this froth fest. Edited November 10, 2014 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I had mail from a model shop today saying they will release details and prices soon of the Adams 415 and that a couple of other models are in the pipe and about to begin tooling soon from Oxfordrail (wonder what they be?). As for the word mate - a couple of pages back - remember a few hundred years, saying someone was your mate mean't something entirely different to today. I am sure Dave (DJ models )is not proposing other services than model railways when he uses the term! (Edited to make it clearer). Edited November 10, 2014 by JSpencer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Binns Road, anyone? PB If only. The site is now a fitness club... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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